1. The main hindrance for addicts going to get help is probably denial and resistance. As if an addict doesn't have enough discouraging him from getting into a recovery program, a post like this can easily deter an addict from ever getting the help he desperately needs. The pros/statistics by far outweigh the cons so posting something discouraging like this in a public forum is not constructive.
Let someone get help first and get some recovery into his system. Then talk to him about the cons if you wish. I'm sure you had good intentions but IMHO, by posting here you are more likely to deter the addicts that are contemplating getting into SA recovery than the addicts that are ready for SA recovery but just need to know what to look out for.
I will agree that there are some cons to SA and there is what to look out for but nothing to the extent that your describing and certainly nothing on the level of scary "Dangers of SA" or of overshadowing or equating the overwhelming good that comes from SA recovery. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with SA but you are definitely from the minority as there are always exceptions to a rule.
The real Klippah that we need to pay attention to is that there are over 25,000 people that utilize this website which is only a fraction of the real number of people that need help and many of them are still pretending that they are so close to Hashem and real upstanding yidden, it's b'geder "toivel v'sheretz beyodoi"! That's where you see the Klippah's strength the most, not in SA. Baruch Hashem there is GYE and SA that have success in counteracting the tremendous forces of this Klippah.
2. As others have already mentioned, there are many Rabbonim that encourage SA and the 12 steps as "Lechatchilla" for recovery, not a b'dieved and that this spiritual program is actually a very torahdike way of life. Rabbi Shais Taub has written extensively about this in his book "The Gd of our understanding", which I've read and highly recommend for everyone.
3. I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate experiences in SA with christian ideas but I've never experienced anything similar to that. Granted my home group is mostly frum yidden but in my travels I've been to meetings in over a dozen cities/towns all across the USA and I've never encountered any christian missionizing or beliefs that were forced upon me. It is a generic spiritual program that is not connected to any one religion and that is the feeling and ambience of this porgam - to each his own. "Gd of your understanding".
Having said that I think it would be great to have a Jewish version of the SA program. GYE has started a 12 step program/fellowship of live meetings for addicts in lieu of having to go to churches and working with goyim but it hasn't yet gained traction. As far as i know there is only one such program in the USA and a couple in EY but thats all. Let's see how that evolves and let's focus and discuss how we can roll out this pilot program into a major program. But in the meantime we'll have to use what we have on hand that's been tried and true until now.
I'm pretty involved with this initiative and I attend these meetings regularly so if anyone would like further info on the GYE live meeting fellowship in NJ feel free to PM me for further details.

Welcome!  How is it going with your therapist?  Are you making progress?  What type of work are you doing with your therapist?

B''h Im on day 179 as of right now. Ive was addicted too ... and ... for a consistent 3 1/2 years, and hear and there watching bad stuff when I was much younger. I understand that i have so much to be thankful for, but i get upset that at times i have no one to share it with. (I don't want to tell my partner because i think I'm very far ahead of him and don't want to make him feel bad.) Right now i am 17 and in a yeshiva high school. Although I harshly regret all that I was doing over those years, I don't regret the growth that I have achieved and the realizations that i have had about my life. Breaking free was one of the hardest things that I have ever done, this is what i was working with from where i started out (my story here). Now that b''h I'm approaching day 180, I've been able to do more with my life and put more effort into that which i was originally slacking off in. Ive been working more in school, i started making some money in soul groups, i go to more shiurim. B''h i think I'm going on the right track. But through this "bettering of myself", I've had more time to think and introspect... to what i really want, deep down. If you read my story, you can see that from the get-go, i want to be an amazing husband and father, those thoughts and ideas are constantly on my mind. Not the idea or thought of having relations or anything like that, but more towards that i want to be the best husband and father i can be. If my dad issues and this experience has taught me anything, its that i want to be an amazing father and husband... the best. I say things to myself like "if i study for math now and teach myself discipline, i can get a good grade and have the end goal of making a good parnasa for my family" or "if i dont watch tv now, then i can have a better and relationship and love my wife with everything i got". Other things that motivate me are to not get back into my addiction. All throughout my recovery (which i am still going through), i would abstain from things like cookies and movies "I am doing this now because if i can have self control on the little things, then for sure i will be better in my control of the much harder things (of watch ... and being ...)". Things like that would be common place. Now, B''H i am very close with my mom, and she has seen that i have been doing these things, and of course, like any good mom would, she would ask "what the heck i am doing this all for". I don't want to talk about my addiction with her, so i just recently told her about the wife and family aspect of it (which is half of it). She told me just outright that i have to live in the present, and stop working about the future. She said I have to stop thinking about a wife because thats at least 6 years away, and my responsibilities right now as a 17 year old are to 1. do well in school, 2. be respectful 3. be a good friend, and above all 4. be happy. She says that by living in the future i can never fulfill 4, because its going to be so long before i can get to that spot. She also told me, that although its very healthy and normal, i am a 17 year old after all, and maybe marriage is a just a more kosher term for me for real underlying desire of wanting to be with someone physical. I don't think this is true, but it definitely got me thinking, and even a little scared. Because i know there is another 1/2 to the story, one which she is blind to, one which no one but me knows that i am a part of and involved with. It made me feel selfish, like my motivation to push myself in a lot of aspects of my life may be just to eventually "take advantage of" (for lack of a better phrase) a woman... and then what. Ive been questioning myself so much lately, and i don't know where to turn. And even if she is right about that i shouldn't worry about wife and should just live in the present, what about my recovery. How do i know that giving up all of that stuff (like abstaining from cookies) is what is keeping away from my addiction. Am i too hard on myself, should i keep going, should i let go a little bit and see where I'm holding, what should i give up on, what should i keep, how much etc... I just don't know, and sadly this has been affecting me. I just want answers to the unknown.
I know this was really long winded, i apologize to all of those who have to read this. Thanks for reading for those who did, any thoughts?

My Dear Yidden,

​I haven't seen this issue addressed on here and think it's important to mention. Namely, the dangers of SA. I went to SA meetings for years and found that there is a very insidious and unhealthy way that SA as a whole seems to approach what we call taiva.  Its seems they attach a lot guilt and shame to sexual desire. They view the struggle against "lust" as some kind of war against ourselves, not recognizing that the sex drive is an inherently holy thing that merely needs to be channeled. It's a very Christian way of looking at human nature, and when exposed to this type of thinking for so long,  its very easy for yidden that go to these groups to take on this mentality (which I believe is at odds with the Jewish outlook).  In addition, there was more than one occasion that people from program, not necessarily SA though, tried to convert me to Christianity!  My own sponsor even tried to convert me! This is a danger that is prevalent whenever Jews are around Christians and are vulnerable and going to them for advice.  I believe that combining Christian extremism with the disease of addiction makes for some very unhealthy people (Mel Gibson anyone???), hence my former sponsor.  But even WORSE was the following incident:  I was at a meeting once and we read from a pamphlet which contained the story of a frum man who was having a hard time getting sober, so he approached Roy K (the founder of SA) for advice. Roy K told him that there was no way that he would be able to get sober if he remained a practicing Jew! Desperate to believe anything, the man stopped becoming frum (lo aleinu). In my mind that's unforgivable, and despite the good that Roy K did, it's all for nought if he took part in taking even a single yid away from torah and mitzvos.  So, for anyone in SA, be very careful. SA is like chemotherapy. It may save your life, but the dangers are real and the cure itself can kill you. Definitely don't expose yourself more than necessary, and try to find the answer in Yiddishkeit and the Ribbono Shel Olam.  This post is going to make some people angry and uncomfortable, and that's a good thing. We can no longer ignore the elephant in the room.

wheres that 5 karma button?

Gut Voch,

Shabbos was probably the most difficult day for me so far. I was thinking in the morning "Phew at least I have stopped acting out now for good. I can't see how I would ever go back to that. I am not even thinking about lustful things anymore so much, so there is no way I could get all the way to acting out"

But I remember from previous times that when I start thinking like this, it doesn't end well.

Anyway, some of the lust pictures that I had looked at in the past started jumping into my head while I was trying to take a nap and I gave them some attention. There was this one image that I remembered. It was one that I think of as being more innocuous and "beautiful" than the other images. My mind wants me to believe that this image is not really lust and its OK for me to think about this one. I kept trying to think about it without becoming aroused. But I did. The truth is that this image is just as much lust for me as any of the other images and for me maybe even more so. 

But I didn't  take my mind off of it right away like I have been when inappropriate thoughts entered during the last month. 

I think after a month sober the emotional resistance I had from all the suffering has started to wain. That thought of "ah at least I don't have to worry about that lusting problem" was a sign that the emotions aren't what they were a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure there is still some but I am going to have to take some big steps this week to start to fill the gap.

I am going to focus on 2nd gear over the next few days, which is disenchantment. I am going to do some retroactive 2nd gear and write it out here and try and remember all the feelings associated with the results of lusting and acting out.

​If inappropriate thoughts do enter my mind that is OK and I am going to shift my mind from the thoughts in that moment to what feelings are happening inside my body right then.

Something I was thinking a lot over Friday and Shabbos is that this whole program is all really tzur mera. But I also need plenty of ase tov. I am going to need to connect more and more to Hashem because I need his help if I am going to have a chance.

For months and months before this I had basically given up. I started to think that there wasn't really a chance of me recovering. I was thinking "Look there are loads of other mitzvos and this is just one aveira that you do. You are doing well just to be frum and bringing up your kids to be good Yidden and for your wife. Just try to do as best you can in all the other mitzvos because you have been fighting this for over 15 years and not getting anywhere. This is a waste of your efforts and time. You have wasted 100's of hours on this. 

But then I started a shiur with my Rov in a sefer that is really inspirational. This sefer suggests meditating on the greatness of Hashem. I think that it was mainly because I was thinking about the greatness of Hashem in the weeks before reembarking on sobriety that I was given a big hisorerus to try again.

So I want to continue learning this sefer, over the next few weeks. And I want to continue meditating on the greatness of Hashem.

At least I know how to meditate better after doing mindfulness on and off for the last 2 years. But the truth is that anybody with a lust addiction knows how to meditate pretty well. That's a skill that you've picked up very well when lusting. If you can meditate on the greatness of Hashem as well as you meditated on all those inappropriate pictures all those years, where you put 100% of your concentration in and nothing else entered your mind for hours, then you are a pretty great meditator my friend! 

I think that I opened up a sore topic for some, so I will explain what I meant.

For some people having a label or a diagnosis place on them is an excuse that allows them to continue their misbehavior. I can't stop watching porn, because I am an addict. I can't fix myself, because I am an addict. 

For some people a proper label or diagnosis is just the thing that they need to spur them into action!

Ready to Stop, whatever tactic works for you, is the one that you should choose. If you can stop this behavior without your ever having gotten a clear answer if you are an addict or not, does that not render the question moot? You are going to a therapist, and that is absolutely heading in the right direction. Eventually, you will have to stop your acting out. If you have the tools at your disposal to do that, then do it. I don't think that there is a need to overly focus on the technical definition of an addict and if it applies to you, The main thing is to stop. If you can do that, then whether or not you were once an addict isn't really important! 
The encouragement of the group here, is also a very powerful tool at your disposal. Post whenever you feel down, a weakening, or in need of inspiration. If you find it hard to open up (like I do), then send private messages to people (also what I do).

Keep up the good work. Be prepared psychologically for a hard fight, but it's a very winnable fight!

Chevra,
i have held myself back from getting in the back and forth about addict or not....partly b/c i know i have a long history of this addiction....and b/c I am a member of SA.
any just pasting an article from Rabbi Twerski which should shed some light on the subject...from the GYE website....Do I have an addiction?

Listen to Rabbi Abraham Twerski, who is a world expert on addictions, answer the question at this link (32 minutes and 12 seconds into the talk).

Here is a transcript:

First of all, the question is, what is the definition of addiction? I don't think we have a good definition of an addict. I think if a person knows that what he's doing is wrong, harmful, destructive, whatever, and he tries to stop doing it, and he makes a sincere effort to stop doing it, and finds that he cannot do it, I think he can call himself an addict. I don't know what the importance is for giving it a name. I think that (he can call himself an addict) if a person comes to that realization, "here's something that I know I shouldn't be doing, and I know it's destructive. I'm trying to stop it, I've tried to stop eleven times, or a hundred times, but I haven't been able to. I need someone's help at being able to stop".

cordnoy wrote on 13 Mar 2018 23:01:

You may be an envelope.

keep em coming!

Thanks Markz! It's good to know that people out there are reading at least part of what I am writing. Sorry they are so long but that is just each module of my recovery program. I try to write them shorter but it is such good stuff it is hard to shorten it too much! Most of the stuff I am just transcribing from the program but some stuff is just from me. From now on I think I will write my own stuff in blue to differentiate.

We can think of going through the program like riding a bicycle or driving a car. Have you ever tried riding your bicycle or driving your car up a steep hill, but were in the wrong gear? It can feel like a quite a struggle. This is why vehicles have gears in the first place –low gears help us get up hills and high gears help us gain speed and momentum once the lower gears get us going.

We can look at moving through the program, as having three gears.

First gear is all about recognizing our habit loops, and seeing the different components really clearly –trigger or behavior or result/reward. For example, what triggered my craving? What did I reach for to quiet my craving? Did we think lustful thoughts. What was the reward. What did I get from lusting? Or was it a lustful thought that jumped into our head that got us caught up in a craving and then a lust thought snowball? Thinking can be the trigger and the behavior!

The more we can recognize all of our different habit loops and name the different stage (trigger, behavior, result) we are in, the more quickly and easily we can step out of them. 

If we are in autopilot that is like moving in reverse. First gear is all about simply seeing our habit loops this gets us moving so that we can now shift into second gear: disenchantment. Here we explore the outcomes or reward part of our behaviours or thoughts. Our habit loops are so habitual, that we might have long forgotten what the actual reward is that we get from them. By actual reward we mean everything that comes as a result of getting lost in a lust thought stream or doing something to make ourselves feel better. 

To explore how rewarding our rewards are, we ask the question: what did I get from this? and drop into our immediate experience to see what the effects or results of our thoughts or behavior actually are. How much better feel? How long did this feeling last? Am I feeling guilty? What did I get from getting caught up in a ball of lust thoughts? 

When we see clearly what we actually got, all the feelings, the emotions, the thoughts that come from fantasies or acting out, our brains start to re-calibrate around how rewarding the reward actually is, beyond scratching that itch of craving that we’re just trying to get immediate relief from, we’re clearly seeing that it isn’t as good as we remembered. When we let ourselves really experience the actual effects of our habits, we become less and less excited to do this again because our brains are getting re-calibrated about what the real results are- right now. Over time, the more we see this, the more disenchanted we become with this behavior. Not by beating ourselves up, but just by noting it. This is how our disenchantment builds. That’s second gear. Our car is picking up speed.

Now that we’ve more clearly seen our actual rewards that come from lust and are not excited to continue these thoughts and behavior, we have enough speed to shift into third gear where we can focus in on craving itself. We’re ready to start using the practices such as RAIN and Noting. Using RAIN, we drop into a curious awareness and note what is happening in our bodies when we are having a craving so we can ride out that craving instead of feeding it. Each time we do this, we strengthen our mindfulness skills.

Now the next thing is really important. Many people have come to the program with the old habit of trying to control or force their behavior or even trying to think their way through a problem. They shift into first gear no problem as they start to recognize their habit loops. Then try to force themselves to ride out their cravings. This is like trying to shift from first to third gear. What happens? It doesn’t work. They didn’t have enough speed so their car stalls. And they try it again and again, and then start wondering what’s wrong with the car instead of asking, do I know how to drive this thing? Don’t fall into this trap!

Be patient. Make sure you know how to shift between first and second gear, taking your time to really see if you are disenchanted from your behaviors on an experiential level, knowing this in your bones, rather than on a thinking level such as –I know this is good for me, if I just push it a little more it’ll work this time. We have to truly be disenchanted from our old behaviors. Not excited to continue in our old habit patterns. This is really critical.

You’ll know if you’ve got enough speed to shift into third gear. How? You’ll try shifting, and the car will either get into third and pick up more speed, or stop. If you feel like you’re in the wrong gear, a big hint here is checking your mind state. Is it open and curious, or contracted, closed down, trying to force things? If it’s trying to force things, drop back into second gear, and explore those rewards a bit more. The open curious attitude will build that disenchantment that allows you to pick your speed back up for that smooth shift back into third gear. And then you’re off!

Oh, one more thing. Along this journey we’re all going come across all sorts of hills and valleys. Some days we’re driving up a big hill. We’re in first gear and that’s ok. We can’t force it into third; we simply have to recognize that today is a first gear day.

Don’t worry, as you keep driving, your skills will grow and strengthen no matter what gear you’re in. Over time as you gain speed and learn to shift and then drive more and more in third gear, you’ll have enough speed and momentum to even drive up those hills in third gear. At this point, nothing can stop you.

So keep these gears in mind as you go through the program, checking in as much as possible to see what gear you’re in. Don’t force things. If you’re struggling, first check to see if you’re in the wrong gear, or trying to shift from first to third too quickly, and then simply downshift to second or first. Don’t forget, no matter what gear you’re in, you’re moving closer to your goal. Enjoy the ride!

Note: My personal feeling is that in my situation right now having just come out of a particularly painful bout of lust, I have enough disenchantment from my behavior that I can ride out cravings. I cannot stomach the idea of lusting right now. I am not going to feed the cravings today. But I know this doesn't usually last. The main pitfall in the past for me was that I lost my disenchantment later when I forgot how painful the results of lusting actually are. The lust obsession slowly persuades my brain that maybe a little lusting with my glass of milk will be OK ;-). Therefore my plan is to maintain my disenchantment with some "retro-active second gear" which is a concept that we will be learning about later, so that I will retain the ability to ride out my cravings in the future. Also if I C"V do have a lust fantasy I can use second gear in that case to maintain disenchantment of lust, although I want to ride out any cravings to have these fantasies because they don't do me any good and they just lead to more bigger cravings to act out.[spoiler][/spoiler]

" when such a sd gives a person a feeling of defeat-"and yiush

ieeyc wrote on 14 Mar 2018 11:15:

The whole point of it is the feeling of defeat
Many of us (me too) are too weak to admit such feelings

Whatever the case, this man is to be commended
1. For sharing his story openly
2. For getting in touch with his feelings
3. For having a therapist
4. For being open with his therapist

He's doing many things right and simply needs a pat on the back

i have to admit that i made a mistake by the title I THINK IM A SEX ADDICT and a person should  definitly not disregard a  profesional diagnosis,im just of the opinion that s/o shouldnt label himself with a SELFdiagnosis  when such a sd gives a person a feeling of defeat ,although some people had positive action through the label ,so to each his own,although ,just asking, is a person entitled to go for a 2nd professional opinion like he would do with any other diagnosis that the patient is not convinced of?

Readytostop613 wrote on 13 Mar 2018 19:39:

how come?