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10 Apr 2018 02:32
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dsd
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Thanks for your response,
my problem is, that i always think that i did not see yet,
1.this kind of person,
2. in such a pose,
3. situation,
& its never ending. I think just the urge itself to watch porn i think i would of been able to resist, @ least that's what i think, its more im always thinking that im missing out on certain scenes that ive not seen yet & im looking for them.
does anyone know if thats considered more ocd or thats normal lust addiction
Thaks
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09 Apr 2018 22:17
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dsd
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Can someone explain, ''Only anyone who has experience please or a therapist'', why someone who has ocd can get trapped in a lust addiction?.
Also how to know if its ocd or a lust addiction?,
because sometimes its not really a addiction.
Thanks
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09 Apr 2018 19:49
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lomed
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eli613 wrote on 05 Apr 2018 01:35:
Hi,My name is Eliezer and I am a sex addict. I am 31 years old and have been married for 10 years and I have three wonderful children. I struggle with lust and I have acted out by going to massage providers and massage parlors too many times. I started attending meetings in October of 2017 and I am working the steps with a sponsor. Unfortunately, I had a relapse less than two weeks ago but that made me resolve to work the program even harder.I doubt my wife suspects anything as our marriage is fine, my wife is my best friend and we get along great. I can't imagine living life without her. I would not want to do anything to ruin our marriage (not like I haven't already) but my sponsor who is not Jewish is telling me that I can not go through the program without apologizing to my wife. I want to clear my conscious but I am very scared of the repercussions.Mostly, I am so concerned about what this will do to my wife, she is such a sweet person, a little shy and just loves to live a simple life with no drama. I am looking for all the support I can get to go about this in the proper way. I don't want to leave this up to my sponsor who doesn't understand the dynamics of a frum marriage and community to guide me, I really need some professional help here.Thank you.
Hi Eliezer,
Congrats on the progress you have done so far. Congrats on working the steps and the willingness to go any length.
We dont give advice, but rather share our own experience strength and hope.
please read in the white book in the section of welcome to newcomers which addresses this issue, if and when and how to disclose to the wife.
My own experience is, that i disclosed to my wife when i was about 6 month clean, before i came into sa. as someone wrote here, it wasn't a pretty scene. it was actually a tough two or three weeks, with some milder times the next few months. However I can say that this was part of my journey and recovery. for me to live this lie was so painful and was interfering with my recovery. From the other side, the fact that i am today honest and open with my wife has taken my marriage to a much higher and better level than ever could imagined.
From what i hear in the rooms, there is not one member that has disclosed that tho ride was a smooth one. many had it harder and some had easier. most will attest that this step of becoming honest with our closest person is integral for our recovery.
all this is in addition to the fact that we owe amends to our wives, as your sponsor says. For me making amends to her will be a life time mission. I cannot apologize enough to her for what i have done. But i can make living amends. yes, whenever i am having it hard to be there for her and the family, i use it an opportunity to make living amends.
To summarize: for me to become honest with my wife is an integral part of my recovery. however, it must be done cautiously. in the book it is suggested that it should only be done with a substantial length of sobriety and with prior discussion with group and/or sponsor and/ or therapist.
Thanks for letting me share, and feel free to reach out to me with anything or support you need.
wishing you much Hatzlacha on your road to recovery and with your Sholem Bayes.
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09 Apr 2018 17:51
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grateful4life
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Thank you for sharing your story. I certainly commend you for the courage to let it all out on this forum.
I'm not one to diagnose and I'm certainly not convinced that you're an addict but your extreme and intense practices remind me of myself and many other addicts I know.
A common misunderstanding is that everything one does in frumkeit/avodas hashem is a contradiction to acting out with shmutz. But the truth is that if a person has extreme tendencies they will usually manifest themselves in both areas. Additionally, most addicts in recovery that I know of, including myself, tend to purposely reduce their intensity in avodas hashem as part of their recovery since intense practices, religious or otherwise, tends to feed their addictive nature and craving for getting some sort of "high", even a "spiritual high" from these intense practices. As a case in point, we are now in the week following Pesach, Leil Seder and Shevii shel Pesach where many jews tend to do some intense practices in order to tap into the lofty spiritual air, if you will, that is prevalent at this time of year. What follows for many addicts is that we feel a void after the yomim tovim and we tend to look for other highs to fill the gap, hence many jews struggling with lust feel extremely challenged during this week (and many fall, not even realizing why).
I have found that a 12-step way of life, which includes daily recovery routines, working with a sponsor to go through the steps, connecting to Hashem on a very practical and down to earth level, and staying connected to a fellowship/group of like minded people, has been the antidote to my addictive/intense lustful and other behaviors and there are many Rabbonim and psychological experts that recommend it as well. BH through the help of the aforementioned program I have been able to stay sober from my addiction for over 19 months, after having been in active addiction for many many years.
Lastly, if you're into books I would recommend that you read "G-d of Our Understanding" by the esteemed and renowned Lubavitcher Chossid, Rabbi Shais Taub. It gives a deeper understanding into the addictive nature and the antidote of the 12 step program from a Torah perspective.
I wish you much bracha, hatzlacha and siyata diishmaya on your path to recovery.
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09 Apr 2018 06:49
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iampowerless
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i-man wrote on 09 Apr 2018 04:32:
| | Sorry for your pain .. I'm not so sure iampowerless is such a good name for you - we could all imagine what an incredible feat it must have been to get through the night after clean ( 104 dys is no small beans either ) | |
Thanks for the encouragement the truth is when i came up with my name i was feeling pretty powerless so that's why i gave myself such a name but as time went on and i became more self aware about this struggle i realized there is so much depth in my name are you ready for the shtikel? Here it goes........
One thing I've learned in therapy is that a lot of mental health issues like OCD, Anorexia and addiction's all have their roots in our human need to be in control of everything about our lives and to try to control our moods, emotions and feelings. You see when we are stuck in these cycle of addiction, OCD or food disorders what is really going on is an emotional problem or us not feeling OK and because we feel we could and must control all of our feelings we fall to a cycle of addictions, or food disorders or OCD which are all the terrible ways we try to cope with our emotions etc.
You see to properly heal from my addiction i had to realize my problem really isn't my addiction my problem is emotional and my need to try to control all of my emotional feelings ONLY ONCE I LEARNED "IAMPOWERLESS" (my name) over my feelings those are given to my by a higher power sometimes they are good other times they are awful but i accept them for what they are as i realized "IAMPOWERLESS" to change them and learned to "ride the waves" was i able to become "POWERFUL" over my addiction.
Hope that answered your question
 Love Yankel
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09 Apr 2018 00:52
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HashemEchad
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Hey guys I’m relatively new to GYE and I’ve been browsing the forums lately and I’ve been super impressed with the way everyone treats each other here. It really is a tremendous chizuk to see everyone in the fight. And the attitudes towards it are just amazing! My story im 22 I’ve been struggling for years and ignorantly Feeding my addiction I’ve never felt a sense of confidence until I discovered GYE but still I struggle nonetheless  I had taken on the taphsic method with a heavy knas of fasting 2days in a row from sunrise to sunset if I fell and I currently have 3 days left of fasting ahead as I have fallen twice already. But the truth is I was going for 10 days which is the longest streak in a long time and I was so proud of myself which made it hard for me when I fell I was super upset at myself but I got up and did it again and lasted for 5 clean days now I had just fallen and have to fast the next 3 days and I don’t know where to go from here. Do I try it again with adjusting the shavua or try another method the truth is 12 steps really scares me
not sure where to go from here ..... any ideas?
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08 Apr 2018 21:47
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cordnoy
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ieeyc wrote on 08 Apr 2018 20:22:
Ihavestrength wrote on 08 Apr 2018 19:41:
Don’t know your story... For me, my teshuva is doing whatever I can to get healthy. Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva. But then again, maybe not. I don’t see myself as a sinner in this scenario. That isn’t what is happening here. I’m a sick person who needs to recover. If you are adamant about the teshuvah however, I believe that acc. some poskim the main requirement for teshuva is stopping to do the sin (azivas hacheit). So that sounds like a good start no matter how u look at it.
please excuse me my ayno yoday`a lish`ol question, you wrote:
Maybe one day when this is all way behind me it’ll be time for teshuva.
teshuva on what,for being sick?
This is a good and legitimate question. Basically, if one's actions are on account of his bein' sick, what is the necessity for teshuvah?
I don't know the answers for others, but let me tell you my understandin' for myself. And granted, this might not be the best answer for everyone.
I never decided or determined if I am/was indeed sick. I know I was/am an addict and I know I'm pretty close to powerless. It took me several years of tryin' step after step until I was able to reach a point of recovery (although I can slip and fall at any moment). That bein' said, if I would have concentrated on doin' teshuvah on my past behavior, or if I would focus on it now, I'd be a dead man. Perhaps I was sick and do not need teshuvah, perhaps I wasn't, perhaps I made a slew of bad decisions that brought about this condition; regardless, this is somethin' that will need to be taken care of some other time. Today, I will focus on today.
God speed!
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08 Apr 2018 04:28
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iampowerless
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Ah Gut Voch my dear friends,
This is the hardest post i've ever written but i feel the most important tool for a healthy recovery is honesty so i'll be honest after 104 clean days and feeling very proud. I fell last night and this morning anyways the last 24 hours i've been on such an emotional roller coaster as many of you could imagine.......
Anyways i just had a great and honest conversation with my sponsor calmed myself down and I've reset my chart back to 1 and I'm ready to move past this fall back to being sober, because i can't afford going back to being an addict and now because of my 104 clean streak i know i could do it i just need to go back to using the recipe that got me 104 days clean so here i go ODAAT i'll get past this bump! I CANT AFFORD BEING AN ADDICT
  Love Yankel
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05 Apr 2018 12:38
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tiefster88
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I understand ya ieeyc. I also often try to run away from them too. They are just SO uncomfortable. It feels like part of us is dieing inside if we don't give into them. It feels like "do something! This is sakonos nefashos if we don't watch something or at least think about shmutz soon! I am going to lose that chance to gain this pleasure and I am never going to be able to get it again! I am never going to know about that shmutz and I am going to be lacking something within myself forever if I don't do it NOW!
But running away from these is not the ideal road to recovery. It usually only helps us in the short term. There are at least 5 reasons for this:
1) We don't always have the distraction available and when we don't we end up giving in to our cravings by feeding them with lust. With focusing on the cravings; this is always available for us.
2) With shmutz addiction we can be doing something else to try and distract ourselves but still feeding the lust by thinking about shmutz in our minds.
3) Our brain is going to get used to whatever the distraction is and want more and more intense substitution as it gets habituated.
4) Sometimes the cravings will just get so big that we can't concentrate on the distraction anymore and just need to go an act out.
5) We wont gain the confidence that we can ride out cravings by just doing nothing and not trying to change anything and instead of just being with our cravings. When we do this we realize that the cravings are just made of body sensations and we don't need to be a slave to our urges. And then in the future we will know that we have been able to ride them out in the past and will be used to doing so.
Maybe also like a screaming child our cravings will start to scream less the next time because we were still giving them attention and never gave in to them, whereas if we just ignore a screaming child they don't know that we mean business. So to are cravings will still bother us just as much unless we show them that we are just not going to take them seriously while still paying attention to them.
Hatzlacha Raba ieeyc! And a wonderful Yom Tov and Shabbos!
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05 Apr 2018 06:31
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iampowerless
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Hi and welcome 
I just read all your 9 pages of posts you wrote back in 2009 under your old name getting help they were full of chizuk and were really helpful to me today, (as today was a tough day for me! But b'h i remained clean by constantly reminding myself of how i don't wish to go to my old days were i was OWNED by this addiction.) So thanks a lot for that, what happened since then? Do you have a filter?
Lots of Love Yankel
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05 Apr 2018 01:35
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eli613
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Hi,My name is Eliezer and I am a sex addict. I am 31 years old and have been married for 10 years and I have three wonderful children. I struggle with lust and I have acted out by going to massage providers and massage parlors too many times. I started attending meetings in October of 2017 and I am working the steps with a sponsor. Unfortunately, I had a relapse less than two weeks ago but that made me resolve to work the program even harder.I doubt my wife suspects anything as our marriage is fine, my wife is my best friend and we get along great. I can't imagine living life without her. I would not want to do anything to ruin our marriage (not like I haven't already) but my sponsor who is not Jewish is telling me that I can not go through the program without apologizing to my wife. I want to clear my conscious but I am very scared of the repercussions.Mostly, I am so concerned about what this will do to my wife, she is such a sweet person, a little shy and just loves to live a simple life with no drama. I am looking for all the support I can get to go about this in the proper way. I don't want to leave this up to my sponsor who doesn't understand the dynamics of a frum marriage and community to guide me, I really need some professional help here.Thank you.
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03 Apr 2018 19:26
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Freeandclear847
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Hi everyone,
I am brand new here. I want to beat this addiction more than anything. I know as long as I can break free from this, I can reach all of my other life goals. And If I cant, I can kiss them all goodbye. I am on my 5th attempt in 4 months to break free, and currently 21 days fully clean. I am joining this forum as a preventative measure and pray it can work for me. If it does I really want to give back as well.
I was unaware that this was an addiction until very recently. Yet it began about 20 years ago! 4 months ago I was browsing the internet and I stumbled across an ebook entitled something to the effect of “30 days of discipline” or something like that. One of the things was no masterbation or pornography for 30 days. The task was daunting but I wanted to do something Id never done before to build stronger will power. I am in commission sales and try to do whatever I can to have an edge, failing miserably a lot of the time haha. Little did I know how much of a challenge this would be.
My longest streak was 34 days. And the things that helped me then and are helping me this time around as well, are:
1. Scheduled Cold showers
2. Scheduled Meditation/deep breathing exercises (and conscious deep slow breathing throughout the day). I do the Wim Hof Method if anyone wants to research it. Its incredible.
3. Scheduled time to workout.
4. Reading posts on Nofap/Reddit/Yourbrainonporn.com for motivation
These things helped a lot and obviously are goals in and of themselves to support the life I want to have. But they have not been enough to keep me clean! I am fed up. Day 21 today was really hard. I’m struggling financially, there are serious problems in my family, and of course I had more urges then the previous 20 days combined. So while I am stressed, a little depressed, and emotionally exhausted, The fact that I didnt cave in, and was lucky enough to find this community is giving me more hope. Man I needed it!
I dont want to objectify women anymore. I didnt even know I was doing that until a couple months ago when I realized the damage porn and prostitues have done to my brain. While the prostitute addiction came after a few failed relationships, it still feels just as damaging if not more than pornography. No wonder my relationships failed in the end. I realize now that ultimately I was too selfish to be able to care for them. And funny enough I also realize the best I could have cared for them was to cut things off way sooner. I stayed in the relationships way too long because the sex was great. Other than that, not so good. And I am ashamed to say it now that I fully understand what I did. Up until recently I all but gave up on the idea of marriage and having a family, and I’m still not sure.
But from what ive gathered over the past few months, a full brain reboot of 90 days of abstinence can reverse a lot of physical, emotional, and psychological problems. I have grown a lot, but I have a whole lot more growing to do. I pray this community is the link I have been missing. I know how important this is and I promise to do everything I can to contribute and implement your advice. God Bless.
PS - I dont know if I need to include this but I have not been a practicing Jew since my Bar Mitsvah. I am 33 years old now. My immediate family was never very observant. However I am considering taking another look but I have no idea where to start. I dont understand a lot of the Hebrew terminology on this site. Does anyone know if there is a glossary of terms? Thank you.
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30 Mar 2018 14:13
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tiefster88
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It's interesting that my mindfulness exercise today happens to be about curiosity. Many of the minhagim during the seder are to arouse a curiosity in our kids. I would suggest that the Chachamim knew that if we give our kids a huge wide expanding curiosity at the seder night they would take in what we are trying to teach them during the seder and would be left with good memories and a positive impression.
I would say that curiosity is the backbone to the mindfulness program. The three gears are the way we use mindfulness to recover from addiction but the curiosity is part the engine of the mindfulness itself. Curiosity is a really powerful emotion. It is one of the main drivers of my addiction. When there is something immodest that I am curios about it make it extremely hard not to give in and find out about it. We can inculcate that curiosity for the good and recovery on seder night and during the rest of the year.
We often get in her own way when we get tripped up by a thought or an idea. We trip and we get stuck in her own habitual or autopilot mode of thinking. Most of us don't realize that we walk through life with lots of prejudgments we're tripping ourselves up all the time we make assumptions or we jump to conclusions about what's going to happen, without stepping back and letting that process unfold on its own.
Being mindful especially with a big shot of curiosity can help us see things a little more clearly, seeing our habits as habits and then really being a curious about how they play out helps this dance with them instead of tripping ourselves up and falling flat on our faces with our old assumptions.
Let's play with curiosity a bit more right now see if you can find a comfortable relatively quiet place if it's a nice day you may even want to go outside into nature like your backyard or a park or simply find some flowers or a tree to look at if you can't get outside you can find a nice pattern like a plant leaf or fabric on a couch or chair, the grain of wood and a piece of furniture or something else with a good texture or pattern even a lampshade will do.
Just drop into an open awareness of this object simply pay attention and let your awareness get really wide and panoramic. Be curious, be amazed you might notice that narrator in your head chiming in "oh I've seen this before. This exercise is stupid, I don't get it why isn't this working I can't believe I'm here right now." Just notice your narrator talking and return to resting in an open curious even fascinated awareness.
Pay attention to what it feels like in your body is there still an open receptive and even joyful curiosity or is there contraction agitation restlessness and closed down this now open your awareness again.
Just let yourself be taken in by whatever is in front of you right now don't try to control or force you experience just relax into it rest and wellness and be curious. Maybe the color of the object the way the light is reflecting off it or something else maybe there's a particular sound to someone's choice or a few notes of music or even your own body Sensations.
Just let yourself be amazed get out of your own way just become fully curious what does this feel like. What does it feel like just resting an awareness of being curious. True curiosity is effortless it's joyful!
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30 Mar 2018 05:04
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Markz
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Dov wrote on 07 Apr 2011 16:32:
Yup, "the 12 steps" is not GYE, SA is not GYE, and so you can take a nice, relaxing shower now. Chill, brother.
When the ARIz"l-solution guy above shares with us that he would talk to Hashem directly about his lust and schmutz use, he was accepting that he does not have the power to overcome it. Period. He admitted that he needed Hashem to help him out.
This is completely different from the frum line we all say that "of course, every breath we take is a miracle and we need Hashem for it!" No. That is not anything like the first step of "the 12 steps" - the twelve steps only work if they are honest - but the frum line of emunah and frumkeit work just fine even if we don't really believe them. Hey - didn't all of us say those things and even teach them to others? While we were still acting out our lust? We obviously had a problem using our emunah.
Could it be that we didn't really believe that schmutz was truly bad for us (no matter what the halocha stated)? Our guts - didn't they tell us differently - that it was sweet and in our very best interest? What about our seichel that told us it was the stupidest idea to act on that lust? Surely we kept doing it because we believed that we could tolerate more of it - till after we got the job over with, of course... Then it always becomes clear, the lie...till the nect time when we again 'forget'. Why?
Could it be that we also did not really believe that Hashem knew what's really best for us? That He was not really our Best Friend of all? Weren't we sure - while planning and searching for schmutz and checking out that pretty woman's image, etc. - that the sweetness of the porn, masturbation and whatever else we liked to do was really, really good for us? Did we doubt that b'sha'as mayseh? How strong was the doubt. if it was there?
Looking at it as "the YH" actually removes personal responsibility for us. People like to say that calling it an illness does that. Really, I see it the opposite way: recovery says there are things wrong with the way I approach and respond to women, people in general, Hashem, life, and how things make me feel, that leads me to need to use lust. The resonsibility I bear in recovery and as an addict, is in recovering the sanity Hashem made me with as a kid (or before).
That's all the steps are about. Nowhere in the steps does it talk about self-esteem, and nowhere in the steps does it talk about lust - except in the 1st step. As R' Elozar ben Durdaya discovered, he had to bring the 1st step with him. Even Hashem was not going to do that for him - only the addict (and I do believe he was an addict like Par'oh was, as well) can do that. He is a yoreh chato'im baderech - sometimes by showing us (yoreh deyah), sometimes by throwing us (yaro y'yareh)....but that's all he does till we take the personal responsibility and admit - if we are addicts and truly sick - that nothing will work to fix us but Hashem Himself. Not tehillim, not learning Torah, not sex with the wife, not tevillah, not tikun klali - nothing but Retzon Atzmuso Yisborach, period.
That is why the 1st step is the only real hisarusa d'l'sata in the program. The rest has nothing to do with lust, drinking, whetever (the problem), and is all about the solution. Any program of action that focuses on being a kodosh or doing teshuvah by constant vigilance to avoid the drinking, lusting, etc., is doomed. Even though it is definitely a mitzvah to stop treifing ourselves up and being kedoshim. That doesn't make it the correct thing to do for us, right now.
Too long a post again. Whoever reads it, drop me a line or PM and yell at me about how wrong I am if you like. But I do not want to create machlokes. For those who are afraid of "blind 12 step-is the-only-way" disease, I am with you. 12 steps cannot be the only way! And I am always available to help you dispell that sh*tttah and keep room for the "ARIz"l program", taphsic, hypnosis, or any other program that has at least some evidence.
But I do see the 12 steps as a program of living yourself itno right thinking - very akin to the words and spirit of "Na'aseh veNishmah". Simple honesty that usually leads to sanity. And I have experienced honesty as a powerful tool for recovery, for those who need it. So I'd suggest it to anyone who has 100% made up their mind that he or she is in deep trouble and cannot get out of any addiction. It has been working for me in every respect so far - I believe you'd do the same.
Love and respect to y'all - and believing that 'alexeliezer's eitza will help many,
Dov
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30 Mar 2018 02:52
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cordnoy
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Fwd (from a different thread): I am sorry for interruptin'. I feel for you and for you all and for all of us.
I'm writin' this now, but I'm not sure I will hit submit when I'm finished. I'll see how it comes out.
I have been an addict for over 35 years, truly. B"H, I am sober now for over three years and have been in recovery for five. I'm still an addict, by the way.
I have met with therapists, specialists, 12 steps, meetings, other addicts, sponsors and more. Many times I was told that I should look at my childhood, and believe me it was rough; no motherly love at all, and no father around. I could have used that excuse for all my actin' out, and perhaps I did.
I went to speeches, heard from rabbeim, and I even spoke myself at times about the dangers of internet, porn, etc. We are bad influences. We do not have the same concerns as others. I, as a father, do not protect my children in the same way that others do. Why? Because I have lost my sensitivity to kedushah. Is everyone like this? Probably not, but I know I am.
Does it hurt me when people say opinions, and they are wrong, or misguided? No. At times, they might even be right, but it is my warped perspective that doesn't allow me to think rationally. Do they understand addicts? Not a chance! Emunah solves everythin', they say. Truthfully, this site is also filled with people who claim that we should just learn more Torah, do another mitzvah, daven to Hashem, and all will be well. Is that accurate? I don't know. For me, it wasn't. I could act out with a gemora open, in the beis medrash, as I was shakin' a lulav; it made no difference.
But, to my point. What other people say makes no difference to me and my life, wrong or right. I needed/need to fix myself, and that is the task at hand. I understand we have feelings and they can't be avoided, but if we strive for recovery, it is up to us. I learned a lot of this in the 12 steps, and nothin' to do with lust. I need to stop judgin' people. I needed to stop bein' jealous and angry. Being upset at someone caused a direct and indirect reaction towards my lustful habits. Calmness and serenity is what I needed/need, and carin' what others said would not be helpful.
This is not somethin' that's learned overnight, and it's difficult. I still struggle with it, but for me, I know it's the key for recovery.
God speed to all of us, and may each of us find the tools necessary to live a day of recovery, and let's not let others get in our way.
And, yes, I decided to press the submit button.
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