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11 Nov 2018 13:58
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mzl
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Killjoy wrote on 11 Nov 2018 12:16:
Alright I’ll shoot, Basically masturbating been a problem for a long time. But porn... that’s new. Started around 3 months ago, and I don’t think I’m addicted but I can’t seem to quit... does that make sense? Anyway I could hold myself back for a few days but then I cave.
First time I aired that out
To me it makes sense. It's very possible that if you can quit porn for a long enough time, after that time you'll be able to stay away from it without special tools or behaviors.
Maybe you could try the tapshic method.
You can try my original poof method too if it appeals to you. Though one guy read it the other day and didn't understand it, so don't spend too much time on it. It's linked down below.
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11 Nov 2018 12:16
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Killjoy
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Alright I’ll shoot, Basically masturbating been a problem for a long time. But porn... that’s new. Started around 3 months ago, and I don’t think I’m addicted but I can’t seem to quit... does that make sense? Anyway I could hold myself back for a few days but then I cave.
First time I aired that out
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09 Nov 2018 01:33
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kavod
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It's been a while since I reached the 100 days. I need to reach them again, so I will write here what worked for me. Not only for everybody, but as a reminder.
I remember that first, it was not me, always was Hashem.
Then, it was 100 days in one of the most summer touristic cities Europe, with women honestly wearing almost no clothing in a big populated city.
Spring, summer.
I do not even know how could I resist it. Now it lookes like imposible. Back then though I remember I was all year trying, so before the 100, I reached 60 days and fell.
So here are the rules that accompanied me all that summer.
1. Reach 90 days was priority number 1. And became the only. Now in retrospective, I can not do this anymore. I need to quit while keeping a life. In a sense that is why it did not lasted more. The moment duties of life came in, stress came in.
Long term recovery means do it along with building a new lifestyle and goals.
2. Guard eyes. I heard in a shiur that yatzer hara powers goes throw the eyes. If you guard your eyes it has no power. I attest that it looks like true.
I stopped any music, TV show or magazine consumption. In the street I almost looked at the floor all the time. Since women were there all the time.
If I looked, then I followed the rule that if you avert your sight in 3 seconds, good. Than you must ask forgiveness. The same rabbi said that in a few (2-3 maybe) days the power of the yetzer hara , stops. So I just had to know that if I looked I may need to bring a fight, for that occasion. I expected it made it less surprising, and after the fight, it dissipated.
3. Every day pray. Every day. I prayed Tehillim. I guess pray with kavanna the normal prayers may be good too.
4. I dedicated hours straight of Torah study / work. The deeper the better. Minimum 2 hours.
5. I wrote on forums. On Gye. Very helpful. very very.
6. I discussed Torah, in my case I published Torah related content. Maybe since I was cleaner, I was more receptive and insightful.
7. Donate money to GYE.
For the long term. (Thins I did not do, but know now are necessary)
Build a life while you recover. Both are priority.
Expect social sensitivity that arise by harnessing your brain resources, so deal with it calmly. This social sensitivity is the one you were lacking, and gives you the ability to build relations. Without it, you may not suffer, but you are blind, insensitive. What is pain? Signals to lead you to the correct path. You scape the pain, your signals disappear, your path is nowhere's path.
So adapt to your new social perceptions.
If you fall after 100 days, do not make it day 0. Simply make it for what it is. You are recovered, and this fall hardly has the power to make you addict.
It is how you react to the fall, that may lead you to day 0, not the fall itself.
So keep the same goals, same habits if you were to fall once. Do not deviate and treat it as a bump in the road, not as a hole.
You may be tempted to stop praying, start enjoying more TV, go back non kosher music, or stop any of the previous things you did to recover.
Don't. Keep them. All of them. Yes. This is your new lifestyle. If you go back to previous lifestyle, you go back to previous habits.
B'H we all grow and merit to live the Mashiach times and a wonderful life in the world to come.
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08 Nov 2018 23:21
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kavod
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Every cycle is an opportunity of renewal.
We begin a new jewish month.
I could talk about my addiction, and countless efforts to quit. But I will say that this forums always keep me very clean.
Having people that listens is very important. This fight can not be done alone.
Anybody wanted to quit, has to rely on people.
Since this is a sensitive issue, this forums always help me to be clean.
Yes, there may be comments that triggers us, but hey, we are all struggling.
In this fight we are all united. And like a minian, when we do it all together, the power is not an addition, it is an exponentiation.
The whole is way bigger than the sum of its parts.
Let's all somehow, somewhere, with the help of Hashem, merit to do all we have to do in this world.
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06 Nov 2018 05:42
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דרך ישר
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I have't done 90 yet (at least since i joined the program) but even if logically you may be correct that it may not necessarily work. It's kedai to point out that many have posted here after going hundreds of days there is no magic in 90-although obviously the longer we abstain the weaker the urge/need becomes and there probably is something to the 90 day term-but at the end of the day even if there may noy be a "addiction" and neurological pathways have changed that still wont cancel the habits we have had over many years plus the physical pleasure we receive plus good old יצר הרע which are all working together to make us fall again, so i think overall definitely sticking to the chart adds a HUGE incentive to stay clean/not to have to start over, and as a reminder about how far we've come.Keep up the battle either way!
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05 Nov 2018 19:36
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ChizukSC
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Ihavestrength wrote on 05 Nov 2018 01:40:
Hey Chizuk! It looks like you are doing great, and your honesty is awesome! I just wanted to give some feedback though.
Can’t zera come out before 7 seconds are up? Also, I know for me, zera can come out without touching myself, perhaps as a result of getting a bit carried away with my thoughts. So maybe you should count that as a fall as well. And what about wet dreams, zera comes out there too?
I’m not trying to poke fun, I’m merely suggesting that making super strict rules for yourself may not be helpful, for there is really no end to things you can prohibit.
Obviously, I’m not recommending masturbating without finishing... It’s just that it’s not only number 1 that contains loopholes which allow for you to keep the rules, and yet still do things which will set you back. Take number 2 for example: You can look at all the pics you want, as long as they are not on inappropriate sites!
Lastly, it is GYE’s 90 day challenge so it does make sense to follow their rules. Best of luck!!! I wrote this cause I thought it may be helpful. I hope it didn’t come across as too arrogant  I could be wrong about this and it’s just my opinion
Thanks for the feedback. I was really coming from a different approach. To me what is considered a fall is something that I cause directly to considerably regress in beating the addiction/habit. The obvious example is if your trying to stop masturbating, then giving in once and doing, you doing so not build up self control that you would have in withholding. One of the things that hard about staying clean is that after not giving in for a couple of days there is this pressure (or feels like) that builds up because your body is used to you just releasing zera whenever want. This has been described to me as harder to deal with during "the withdrawal phase". But once uses self control after a while it becomes easier and the pressure lessens. However, it seems to me that if some masturbates just up until the point of finish, this restarts the withdrawal process through the forced released of zera by going to the bathroom after.
The other main thing for me is that starting and and not finishing, will be that slippery slope to really falling and I need that extra red line to tell that voice of the yazer hara that starting is as if I already fell. The 7 seconds is just a conservative way of saying never start. But not too strict that if I absentmindedly do something for a second I don't have to consider it a fall and restart my count.
Re following the rules set by GYE, GYE is an outstanding site and I am so grateful for what it has given me! But different things work for people differently. The.guard (besides being a hero for klall yisrael) seems like a pretty understanding yid  I cannot imagine he will be upset with me tailoring the chart to stricter rules that will hopefully help me. By reading through other people's posts it seems it has happened before.
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05 Nov 2018 18:40
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mzl
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Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 05 Nov 2018 18:29:
Day (140+)7
Just wondering if there's any point in doing the 90 day chart again?
If I've managed to stay clean longer then 90 days, then according to the scientific study I've changed my addiction pattern. If so, even if have fallen after 90 days that doesn't necessarily indicate I'm addicted, so what would be the point of hitting 90 as part of the chart?
and if falling after 90 days does show my bad habbit, then obviously the 90 day challenge didn't achieve it's goal.
Obviously I'm still going to still fight to stay clean, but not necessarily making my goal specifically 90 days.
Great men think alike ...
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05 Nov 2018 18:29
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Shnitzel and kugel
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Day (140+)7
Just wondering if there's any point in doing the 90 day chart again?
If I've managed to stay clean longer then 90 days, then according to the scientific study I've changed my addiction pattern. If so, even if have fallen after 90 days that doesn't necessarily indicate I'm addicted, so what would be the point of hitting 90 as part of the chart?
and if falling after 90 days does show my bad habbit, then obviously the 90 day challenge didn't achieve it's goal.
Obviously I'm still going to still fight to stay clean, but not necessarily making my goal specifically 90 days.
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04 Nov 2018 02:11
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gyehelp2017
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Hi, I admire your courage for your first post on the forum. One of the worst things about this addiction is the loneliness. Me personally before I discovered GYE the hardest part was feeling alone without anyone feeling along with me and understanding me, so welcome welcome!!!! You are not alone on this great journey, stick around here and be inspired, and before you know it you will be inspiring others too.
All the best! keep in touch!!!!
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30 Oct 2018 02:50
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Shnitzel and kugel
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ChizukSC wrote on 28 Oct 2018 23:27:
Hashem Help Me wrote on 28 Oct 2018 22:51:
Your
Regarding bringing up the masturbation struggle while dating, be cautious. Even the most understanding and kind young lady may simply not be able to comprehend how an otherwise frum fellow acts out. Just my humble opinion.
This is a point I have seen mentioned a few times by many people on the forum and I want to give my opinion on the matter. I think most mental health professionals would disagree. The one I spoke to myself emphasized that females live in this tumadik world and if you think that does not effect even the average bais yaakov girl, it is not true. If you listened to the very helpful conversation between Efrem Goldberg and Moshe Yachnes, they emphasized this struggle effects both genders in this generation and even if females do not go as far males they definitely are affected by the world around us.
Outside of that, the foundation of a good marriage is honesty. I understand when one is already married and a wife finds out you have secretly been acting out and she feels betrayed. When revealing before going into a marriage, you have been emotionally vulnerable on the highest level by sharing this tough struggle and will lead to a greater healthier relationship. But going into a marriage without telling your wife you struggled with this area of halacha is setting a faulty foundation for the future. Also, an article by Rabbi Dr. Twerski on GYE giving a young lady advice that honesty with her future choson about her struggles is the correct way to go. I would gather to guess he would say the same with a male revealing to a female.
Just as importantly, spouses need to be there for each others struggles and if speaking to someone (really kind, helpful, well intention) strangers on GYE helps you deal with the struggle, having a wife who will be there by your side will be that much more useful and even help build a closer relationship.
I will end with a caveat. When I revealed to the girl I was dating, I knew her well enough that when she agreed not tell anyone without first running it past me, I knew she was telling the truth. I was really worried she might end the relationship, but I knew she would not break her word on that and that was important.
This isn't a simple question to answer at all... both sides are valid points. Like chizuksc mentioned marriage is about honesty, on the other hand, like hhm said, these innocent woman simply "don't get it" so saying wont do any good usually speaking.. I can convince a guy one way and a minute the complete opposite since both make so much sense.
Maybe Dr twerski was speaking to addicts or to people who arent well into recovery.. not sure what to make of it.
I'd love to hear from someone like my case, who joined gye as a single guy, got somewhere in recovery, got married but didn't tell his wife. #Experience is whats the proper answer.
Anyone fit into that description?
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30 Oct 2018 00:05
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Markz
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Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 29 Oct 2018 17:28:
Ok so get back up was tough, I fell a few more times, to combat that I'm turning off the internet off my phone and turn it on only when I need it. And to put my phone away after a certain time by night, and no browsing randomly on the internet for no reason, despite me having webchaver, cuz boredom is what caused my to fall last night.
So odaat, day 1
Hey I didn't realize your phone was unfiltered. Webchaver for me is simply a fence. Which only makes it harder to find inapropriate content, just makes the hunt more interesting...
Its not a brick wall. Whitelisting as I have on my phone, IS a brick wall which I can't circumvent.
This is - If you're not an addict (whatever that means - go figure :-)
Keep us posted bro!!
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29 Oct 2018 00:26
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lifebound
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Hashem Help Me wrote on 21 Sep 2018 02:56:
So today a good chaver from here, a bochur who BH is doing well, took the plunge and gave up his phone with internet access. Now he only has a kosher phone. As a reaction, I would like to share some thoughts on the matter and would appreciate responses.
Recently I spoke with TAG of Flatbush. They have a standard called Machane Kadosh, which is almost 100% foolproof. It involves cutting out many sites and removing browsers, etc. However they still beg everyone to switch to kosher phones. Why? They claim that every day new applications, updates, upgrades, etc., enter the market creating new loopholes. Investing thousands of dollars, Machane Kadosh has hired cutting edge tech savvy technicians who watch like hawks for all new developments and then rectify whatever can be fixed. However they cannot guarantee perfection. Therefore they urge everyone to use as a phone, a non internet device. Why have at your fingertips a 24/6 nisayon? For better or for worse, we keep our phones with us all the time. How long does it take on a day where one feels down, lonely, bored, curious, or slightly triggered to take a smartphone into the bathroom, or some other private place to get that "quick fix"? For those who need internet access out of their office, TAG suggests having a tablet (or smartphone set up as per Machane Kadosh standards - which is still the gold standard) in addition to their kosher phone, and to train themselves to use the internet device only when necessary - not for their basic (and nowadays constant) communication. An obvious side benefit of this is that one's phone is l'chatchila usable by his/her children.
Most friends who have switched to kosher phones claim that within a month or two of the switch they came to the realization that they really never needed the constant access. They found that the lines between necessity, convenience, and even relaxation/entertainment had become blurred. Even what they had been convinced they needed, they realized was exaggerated. They also claim that their quality of life was enhanced. They feel they had been addicted to technology (even the kosher stuff) and now saw there is a beautiful life without the constant "mental stimulation" the smartphone offered.
Which brings us to the question. Chazal tell us that if one chooses to walk where there is a lack of tznius when there is another route (darka achrina) that is clean, he Is called a rasha even if he keeps his eyes closed. So why is our scenario different? If one is able (and yes, I understand there are some who are unable) to avoid the smartphone and can use another route - the kosher phone, then even if he is careful and keeps his eyes off the "bad stuff" (which includes a lot more than just pornography - many "pareve" sites contain images that are definitely assur to look at), how would Chazal view him? Chalila, I am not trying to pass judgement or be mekatreg on any yid, I am just asking.
There are some people who unfortunately are so addicted that if given only a kosher phone, they will out of desperation purchase an internet phone at Walmart, or find an internet café, or some other outlet to quench their insatiable thirst. However for the vast majority of people, removing the constant nisayon has proven to be very helpful. Yes, some of us with kosher phones still slip and fall from time to time, but don't we all agree that falling once every few weeks or months is incomparable to falling every few days or worse?
Please respond.
I switched to a flip phone recently, didn't think I could do it but it's been a month+ and I haven't dropped dead yet...
I'm sure it was a good move for me, but I've found that the more I cut off access, the more desperate I become, taking bigger risks to get my fix. And truth is, I don't need internet access at all to act out, it just makes it easier...The periods in my life where I didn't have internet access, was when fantasy and lust got way worse, and I ended up crossing boundaries, doing shameful things I thought I never would.
So yes, removing the easy access was a good step. But that alone will not keep me sober.
Just sharing my experience so far.
(also, I was self-conscious about what other people would think about me switching to a basic phone. But I just say, "I wanted to see what life is like without a smartphone, just to disconnect for a bit" and most have said something like, "Wow, I love that idea...I wish I could do that!")
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28 Oct 2018 19:33
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Shnitzel and kugel
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Unfortunately, its not an external trigger. In the not too distant past I dated the most wonderful young lady. She is frum, smart, passionate, inspiring and someone I cared about and still care about tremendously. I also found her very attractive. I even felt safe enough to tell her about my struggle with masturbation and she was understanding and at the same helped motivate me to improve. She was really my rock in so many ways, including beating this habit (addiction?). The relationship ended, but my feelings for her and fantasizing about how it could have been and how beautiful she is still bubble up on a daily basis. These feelings and thinking about her and how much I miss her and fantasizing about her tend to cause me to struggle the most and that is usually what causes the slips.
Really just the thought "I have come so far" and in order to marry anyone so I can once again have someone as "my rock" I need to first have this under control.
Wow!! Really inspiring to see you not giving in, by this specific case!! Keep trucking!!
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28 Oct 2018 18:07
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mzl
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ChizukSC wrote on 28 Oct 2018 17:59:
Hashem Help Me wrote on 28 Oct 2018 04:39:
What was the trigger?
Unfortunately, its not an external trigger. In the not too distant past I dated the most wonderful young lady. She is frum, smart, passionate, inspiring and someone I cared about and still care about tremendously. I also found her very attractive. I even felt safe enough to tell her about my struggle with masturbation and she was understanding and at the same helped motivate me to improve. She was really my rock in so many ways, including beating this habit ( addiction?). The relationship ended, but my feelings for her and fantasizing about how it could have been and how beautiful she is still bubble up on a daily basis. These feelings and thinking about her and how much I miss her and fantasizing about her tend to cause me to struggle the most and that is usually what causes the slips.
Hashem Help Me wrote on 28 Oct 2018 04:39:
What stopped you from falling?
Really just the thought "I have come so far" and in order to marry anyone so I can once again have someone as "my rock" I need to first have this under control.
You don't have to answer this, but did the relationship end because you viewed her as your rock?
I'm just wondering because that might not have anything to do with acting out.
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28 Oct 2018 17:59
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ChizukSC
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Hashem Help Me wrote on 28 Oct 2018 04:39:
What was the trigger?
Unfortunately, its not an external trigger. In the not too distant past I dated the most wonderful young lady. She is frum, smart, passionate, inspiring and someone I cared about and still care about tremendously. I also found her very attractive. I even felt safe enough to tell her about my struggle with masturbation and she was understanding and at the same helped motivate me to improve. She was really my rock in so many ways, including beating this habit ( addiction?). The relationship ended, but my feelings for her and fantasizing about how it could have been and how beautiful she is still bubble up on a daily basis. These feelings and thinking about her and how much I miss her and fantasizing about her tend to cause me to struggle the most and that is usually what causes the slips.
Hashem Help Me wrote on 28 Oct 2018 04:39:
What stopped you from falling?
Really just the thought "I have come so far" and in order to marry anyone so I can once again have someone as "my rock" I need to first have this under control.
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