I have a question all that have an answer are invited to come forth. (cud be this shud be in a seperate thread i wud appreciate advice on that as well).



question: what is a person that is NOT  AN ADDICT and starved of sex with his wife supposed to do? he has natrual urges and if hes locked up and being starved, how can he just restrain himself? he needs to let it out somewhere no? regardless of the fact that he wont be fulfilled by engaging in all this filthy garbage, but how can he just starve his need? he has to be fed SOMEWHAT...



DISCLAIMER!!! obviously the fact that something is a davar assur and we can get hell for it etc is not the discussion here. im looking for both chizzuk as well as a practical eitzah for fulfilling a pretty basic need when one seems pretty trapped. obviously the goal is to only do ratzon hashem and not any aveiros...the question is whats a good chizzuk for someone going through such a mess, and whats a practical tip/solution for fulfillment if your starved. And with all due respect, to anyone on the site, if you have a great sex life, please dont bother answering (unless you have previous experience of your wife being disgusted by it) u probably have no clue of both the difficulty of the nisayon nor the solution. This isnt meant to come across as harsh just from enough personal experience  from getting the wrong advice from very well meaning yet fortunately clueless people.

Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 30 Apr 2019 15:28:

One of your greatest posts.

This approach aims to build the כח הסברא ie:  logical reasoning, in the hope that the mind will become sane and be able to control addiction. (For those who say addiction is their solution not their problem, this also can make the "problems" that underly the addiction, not seem as problems, and have them stop bothering you.)

Lately bochurim are asking what to do bein hazmanim...

A bochur myself I personally have fallen this bein hazmanim, not necessarily because the time frame but due to place I was in.

Anyhow on gye people focus that we don't have free time so we don't act out, is that dealing with the lust issue, or simply ignoring it?


You see I've been on gye for 11 months and my lust simply seems to get stronger (or stay the same) and a shvuah couldn't prevent my last fall.
Why aren't the tools on gye working? Why is it that I have to keep on making stricter rules for myself? Isn't it supposed to get easier?


Unless one is an addict, if one has been clean for a while, why does he have to be so careful as he was when he started off? Didn't he tackle the problem?


Any struggle is hard in the beginning after a while one gets the hang of it and not necessarily has to be so vigilant.

You might say I've trained myself not to act on each urge, which it true but not my goal, it's about not living stuck in this lusting life, not being tied up by some force controlling me.


Recently someone on gye left, not judging at all but how long can a person continue fighting day in and day out?
shnitzel doesn't want to give up on gye too... But who knows?


I know i'll have to battle lust for life but not this type of lust I have currently, right now it's just out of hand...
can't look at a woman without thinking about.. insane!


Which leads me to my current plan on starting to go to live PA meetings simply because I have not dealt with the essence of it all.

Acting out is a effect from a cause called lusting, and gye doesn't seem to teach one how to deal with that, just tools how to deal with the effect..

 There are heroes here on gye who somehow got it under control with just this site, kol hakovad! I personally need more..

So back to those who find bein hazmanim tough, what about during the rest of the year, you don't find it hard? Maybe you never leave the 4 walls of Yeshivah?

Reb yid you have lusting issues, what about learning not to lust so much? What about changing the view you have towards women and sexuality?

Did I miss the point?

There a a lot of factors that play on our better judgement and cloud our ability for moral clarity. Our addictive tendencies by definition are without a doubt on top of the list. Add to that the fact that society advocates by every available source  that same gender relationships are simply normal and merely - just an “alternative lifestyle.” They are “gay” you understand, while others are “straight.” Two very legitimate ways to live life. In fact, the so called “Gay” lifestyle is even celebrated with parades of pride. Those that feel otherwise are condemned for much more than simply being wrong and narrow minded. Rather, they are labeled as psychologically sick. They are you see, “homophobic.”

How do we know what is correct? The Torah couldn’t be clearer. Male same gender intimacy is called by the Torah an abomination. Yes, we can judge this kind of activity as being absolutely wrong without any reservation at all.

At the same time, we hesitate to judge the people themselves who engage in this way. After all, are we truly privy to their personalities, temptations and life experiences? No were are not. We cannot really be in their shoes so we cannot properly judge them. Does that mean they are not judged? Of course, like all human beings, they are judged. Regardless of the general society's values, support groups, articulate outspoken advocates for alternative lifestyles and even rainbow parades. At some point  all human beings pay the piper to the one and only ultimate judge.

There are those that despite all the challenges they face with same gender attraction, boldly step up to the plate and work on living a wholesome,  proper and yes spiritual lifestyle. They are not the only ones that understand what they are personally going through. Hashem knows. How precious must their efforts be in his eyes? They are truly inspirational examples for all of us, even those without SSA challenges.

Shlomo24 you were there. You were a pillar of strength that I and I’m sure countless others looked upon as a beacon of strength.

Please come back and inspire us once again. We need you.

Hi everyone I've been following the posts on the forum for a while now, and see what different people are going through, and want to share my thoughts, on how be free from insanity/Addiction, to help anyone I can.
I'll share what worked for me, and will try to break it down as well as i can.

hi all day 297 is going great havent been here for a while so just popped in to say hi
and to rant a little cause someone i liked alot and rooted for seemed to throw in the towel to a part of his struggle and it hurts thats it 
also i met a fellow addict over pesach the guy read my face like a book seeing alot of pain there and pulled me too the side to talk and talk we did i dont think i ever heard someone describe my internal pain and anguish as well as he did 
i dont think i have ever met someone as confusedly clear (hope that makes sense) as him  so clear and yet so terribly confused 
May G-D help us with our struggles and lives 

Shnitzel and kugel wrote on 24 Apr 2019 19:36:

You can also download onto your phone for free.

Shnitz as an aside. You mentioned you acted out bc you where in a bad situation that you could not control, just curious, was your phone part of your acting out? Because that is something you can control. 

Also I have found that if we really want we could  have more control then we would like to believe. Sometimes we like to believe we have no say that way we have a semi excuse to act out.

i don't kno if any of this applies to you, and it would be near impossible to know, which is again the downside of a annonymous forum, when people write what they did or what happened, it tends to be half the story. Not that people are trying to lie, it's just not possible for a person to truly give over his life situation over a forum.

On what cords said re: it being helpful for all. I have not read the white book, but I have listened to all of dovs talks, and to may from Sandy Beach of AA and I have found many of the ideas helpful even though I'm not in SA.

Thanks cords for the solid advice, I'll iyh but the white book after yt, when I get back to yeshivah, it'll be interesting to see my roommates reactions when they see me reading the book lol, They know I'm into physcology so I don't think they'll suspect me...

I also plan on going to another therapist which specializes in family/marital issues/pornography so bezh he'll help me out too. 



Btw have no issue in considering myself an addict but chords what do you mean you saw that I was one when I first joined? 

Hakolhevel wrote on 24 Apr 2019 15:08:

I definitely see symptoms of addictive behavior. I actually saw it when he first came on as well (and I probably/might have written it someplace too). But even if he's not, it's a good read. 

Cords, are your saying that our chaverim  shnitz is an addict, or that even if he's not it would be helpful?

A gut moed everyone. I just wanted to come clean and say that after roughly 140 days of cumulative clean time, I fell. It happened to me mamash the night before the seder. In doing so, I broke my Taphsic and had to pay a large knas (I didn't follow through with any of the preliminary things). Since I had broken the Taphsic and got a large knas, I felt free to have another fall, this time motzi yontiv (just an hour or so ago) I'm feeling a couple of things and thinking about a few things that I'm just going to put out there and see what responses I get.
1. I think that I made the taphsic too difficult. I made it so that I had to do all three preliminary things (call a friend for 5 minutes, learn a chapter of tanya, say a chapter of tehillim) in order for me to NOT be hit with a heavy knas.

2. I think that I made my sobriety too much about the taphsic. In the beginning of my conscious sobriety work, it was about being sober, strengthening my connection with Hashem, and working on my inner strength. What ended up happening is that the taphsic slowly took over my sobriety. I stopped working on the GYE principles, stopped coming on the website, stopped making GYE a priority and using my addiction to strengthen my connection with Hashem. It all became about not getting hit with a heavy knas. Inside, I wanted to fall, I'd even toe the edge just to get some sort of thrill until finally I just blew it all with reckless abandonment. Since I had already been hit with the heavy knas for my erev-yontiv fall, I felt free to look at pornography motzi yontiv since- why not? I've already broken my Taphsic! It no longer applies to me, so I can do whatever I want. This is obviously not a good tactic. The taphsic is a tool, a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is only meaningful so much as I make my sobriety meaningful. It shouldn't be the linchpin upon which my entire sobriety depends, but a "break glass in case of emergency."
3. I'm thinking that going forward, I really need to make it a priority to be on GYE at least 4 days out of 7, if not more. I need to get back into reviewing the principles, which gave me so much strength. I'm a little bummed that I lost my clean streak, but iyh I can get it back ODAAT.

I am not writing this to Shlomo. We have written each other many times and I count him among my friends. I can not change him though, and I will not try to. I am writing here about myself. This is an email response to another friend regarding Shlomo's post.

No Leib, my hurt was personal pain. You know that I too have ssa. For whatever reason Hashem made me far more attracted to males then females. I do not question why, this is my personal challenge. I am married with beautiful loving children. I love my wife as well, but I struggle daily with finding the romance in marriage. I believe that I would have a much more satisfying 'bedroom' if I was married to a man. But life's not about sex. (Pretty shocking coming from a sex addict, no?). I believe that I have a purpose in this world, and that is to stay sexually sober, and raise my family. It ain't easy and sometimes I cry from frustration, but I've got to be still going until it's over. To see someone else in a similar situation who I've often corresponded with over several years about our struggles just throw in the towel- and give up and then claim to be proud of it because it's too painful for him to face the truth kills me.
I should be proud, and others on this thread living the life they truly believe in despite the title current pulling us in the other direction. We don't claim an easy life, but when we are truly sober and think it through we know we're doing the right thing.
How come we don't make rallys. Sober Pride Parade. How come we have to hide, and when someone gives up we have to "understand" "respect his opinion". By posting such a provocative post, he's not respecting mine.

Let's start being Proud of our struggles! No one's perfect, but we can be Proud that we are trying and trying is truly all that we need to do if we're still going to be Winners!

GrowStrong wrote on 16 Apr 2019 11:46:

This is definitely more in line with what I was asking. 

It definitley surprises me to hear these facts. I was under the impression that most non Jews (maybe not porn) view lusting or masturbating as a non issue and that most do it. 

However I guess after giving it some more thought and based on what you’re saying thay has to be the answer. 

Now as far as to why hashem made it, I feel like there’s a very simple answer. If ppl would have no lust at all we would not get married or have sex. Ever. I mean understand that even with your wife it needs to be controlled and can’t be purely physical but there’s no denying that it’s needed in order to have sex. I mean you can’t tell me that ppl would have sex out of pure emotional love. There needs to be a drop of a driving force behind it but at the same time with love and emotional intimacy. 

There are a couple of things i would like to address on this thread
Firstly I have heard a few A.A. speakers talk against porn and masturbation as not being spiritual behavior and a form of infidelity against their wives - these are non Jews talking about something that they’re not addicted to.
its an assumption to say that 99 percent of non Jews do it just like I wouldn’t say that 88 percent of Jews do it.
another point i would like to raise is that my experience with SA has shown me that those chronic porn masturbators who disclose this addiction to their wives have just as hard a time with their goyishe wives as the Jewish ones do
so really I feel there are a lot of generalizations in this thread which have little to do with reality.
as my sponsor told me once God hates lust whether it’s a Jew or a non Jew who is lustin’
whats more of an interesting topic for me is why God created something that he hates but I think it’s easy to chalk that up to the awesomeness of free will and bechira