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03 Jun 2019 17:43
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grateful4life
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iwillnevergiveup wrote on 03 Jun 2019 03:03:
Been around for a while, this is my first time posting.
I'm trying to get to 90 days but can’t get through a week without acting out. If you have any suggestions how to crush the desire when it creeps up after being clean for a week. Please reply
Congrats on your first post! Should be the first of many! Seeing people working on themselves and posting on the forum gives chizuk to everyone!
Regarding your question, much has already been written on this subject and getting real recovery is not a quick fix. Almost all of us on GYE didn't come here the day we acted out for the first time or the day after that, so it takes a while to completely rewire ourselves from the years of acting out.
If you ask 10 people with a year plus of recovery for their method of success, you may get 10 different answers. Other than severe addicts, GYE and its community of recovering strugglers can help pretty much everyone. (If you are not sure if you're an addict, think of a drug addict. Drugs are completely destroying his life. The addict knows this and yet he is willing to risk everything to get his fix - he is completely out of control. Most GYE members are not that severe.)
To me, what seems to work for most GYE members is sharing openly and honestly about their challenges via forum, chat, phone, in person etc. (when you take the skeletons out of the darkness of your closet and begin to "shed light" on them, they begin to shrink), reading about the science of this struggle and understanding yourself to the point of avoiding triggers, and connecting with others in recovery - in times of crisis (before acting out) and non critical times (as a preventative measure).
Overall taking a pro active approach is key. The amount of work one can do to work on himself is quite extensive and the more you put in the more you get out.
Additionally, the above measures should be taken along with a heavy dose of tefilah, constantly expressing gratitude on the good we have and all the "small" miracles, and finding healthy substitutes to acting out (i.e. a good hobby, exercising, healthy eating/sleep etc.).
Lastly, just two "Lo Sa'asei's" to keep in mind that always trip people up:
1. Thou shall NOT beat yourself up - it never fixes any problem so just focus on the task ahead.
2. Thou shall NOT isolate - for us strugglers, isolation has a 100% guarantee of relapse.
Hatzlacha on your journey and enjoy the ride!
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02 Jun 2019 21:26
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OTR
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I am right now eating all the crap I threw into my eldest when she was young. She bore the brunt of the craziness that was going on inside of me because she was weak. And that is the brutal painful truth about how screwed up I was when I was intensely and uncontrollably watching porn. I think the only difference between then and now is that I have learned to appreciate and respect my need for limits on accessibility. It's not that I am that same monster now as I was then and just white knuckling.. I never was a monster. Porn made me feel like crap and feeling like crap made me act like it to others. But I was never bad. Just not respecting my own limitations.I am not able to say I think I will be entirely or forever porn free at this time. IN general my spates of watching porn have become shorter and I retreat a lot quicker into where I feel safe. Do I want to be even better.. Yes. And I hope that with more prolonged periods of staying away as well as the personal work I can do while I am not on porn, I will get to the point where I never need it again. Or never use it again. - It is similar to me in how I stopped smoking. It was a long road. And I still have a smoke every now and then. But that is it. No more packs for years, no desire even for it except once in a blue. -While I am totally content with having an occasional cigarette I am not ok with having an occasional porn session because to me there is something inherently wrong with watching porn. For me, the problems of watching once in a while are I think a combination of religious guilt, and feeling untrue to my wife. And feeling out of control. But the out of control feeling has been a lot less problematic lately. Of course binge watching like I used to, would dredge up all my self esteem issues of feeling out of control and animalistic.Masturbation doesn't bother me as much as an addict. Although it does bug me as a Jew. I think that is the broadest slice of my take on this in a nutshell.. Anyone still awake?
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02 Jun 2019 20:05
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Yesh Tikvah
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Hi fellow strugglers.
My name is Yesh Tikvah, at least that's my handle, and I have never been on a form before. Internet addiction is not my MO, phone sex is, and for some 25 years now I've been struggling with that. I was doing very well but I recently had a fall after a long time. So I realize that I need a broader network of fellow soldiers who are working on their kedusha and tahara like I am. Hopefully I'll be a regular on this forum and will be able to get and give chizuk to others.
Thank you and I hope I did this right but I'm not sure , and if there's things that should be corrected for posting on the Forum please let me know. Thanks.
YT
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31 May 2019 06:30
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GrowStrong
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therapy might help him save his marriage which is very important but if its a 20-30 year habit he might need more than therapy to help stopping to act out...
He may find those tools here, or he may be led from here to a 12 step program or some other type of recovery program that will help him kick the habit.
Friend if you are ready to quit and truly want to quit, its possible.
My masturbation habit turned into a 30+ year downward spiraling addiction.
Good luck!!
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31 May 2019 00:16
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Helpme26
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Hi everyone: I am married 39 , I have children and I have being with this problem since a teenager, when I got in tshuba I stopped this addiction, but when I started having problems in my marriage got back in this problem again, and it got worst, my wife discovered it!! Since then we couldn't stop having problems and discussions, even when I was clean, we have being separated for six months and my problem is getting worst. I need to stop this, if we can get back together or not I need to get better and stop destroying my neshamah. If anyone have comments please help me. Thank you all and I am glad to find this site
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28 May 2019 19:20
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Cryingforrecovery
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yes you male feel actual withdrawal symptoms which ma include anxiety, sweating, depression, and not bring able to sleep, for me it was so strong that I needed to go on meds.
not sure if it accurse with people with light addiction
but your body that lived on this drug for years will need time to learn how to live with out it
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28 May 2019 13:52
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Ihavestrength
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proudjew95 wrote on 28 May 2019 06:37:
I heard that there is such a thing but was wondering what symptoms people felt and and how long they last
? Do they often occur also with people who acted out every few weeks, prior to starting the challenge?
I am also looking for someone or a few people to check in with each day so i can feel more accountable ... thanks
Thanks
I don't think there are any objective universal symptoms. Honestly, blaming your feeling badly on not being able to look at porn or masturbate, is just foolish I think. Noone just masturbates compulsively or watches porn compulsively in isolation. There are things that drive us to those behaviors. Feelings, thought patterns, situations, etc.
So, someone who uses porn as a daily coping device will likely have some difficulty ("withdrawal symptoms"). Someone who uses it every few weeks will also likely have some difficulties, because he uses porn or masturbation to cope, just not as often.
Essentially, it is an obfuscation to say "withdrawal symptoms" when we simply mean that it is difficult to quit a habit/ addiction/pattern of behavior that makes us feel good, and we use to our short-term advantage.
Great job on the streak you got going there. Keep it up! You got this!
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26 May 2019 04:13
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higher
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Realestatemogul wrote on 24 May 2019 22:41:
Thanks Higher, Cordnoy, and HHM!
Higher, it interesting you say that it's easier knowing that it gets easier every time you look. Maybe this goes along with what Cordnoy said earlier on my forum that Humility is really important. I.e. maybe knowing that it will be really hard and appreciating that you have to do your best til the day you die is a healthy perspective. If I was told it will get better and then it doesn't, I would pretty much give up and blame myself. But, knowing that it is a lifelong project that may take years before seeing any improvement. Or, maybe really conquering means fighting it your whole life. Then I can try and persevere and stay strong like every other area of avodas hashem.
#Day11
yup.
general rule: whatever works for you works. if it doesnt work for you...goodbye charlie.
as an aside: i was just repeating a chinuch that was focusing on weakining the tayvah to look. (there are many well known stories of gedolim that even in their old age they were extremely careful in shmiras einayim. obviously conquering is something else.) i could say that this personally does work for me. (yay, i know-but i can def. hear it working for others im not so wierd...and it is a chinuch after all). and it has worked for me in the past.
p.s. i believe the chinuch is saying a reality that goes beyond what does or doesnt work for people but thats a separate discussion and as i love to point out- addicts may be a whole diff. subject.
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24 May 2019 01:22
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higher
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stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 21:39:
cordnoy wrote on 22 May 2019 05:44:
Realestatemogul wrote on 22 May 2019 03:43:
#Day 9
What is the expected amount of time until being able to conquer shmiras ayanayim? (I am referring to looking at women on the street not p@&n)
Till right before they close the box on us.
I love this response! Great question, great answer. Dovid Hamelech worked on it for a whole lot of time.
Higher, you're right, practice can make it easier, but to conquer..... shtate, "one should not trust himself until the day of death" if I may add - ad v'lo ad bichlal... (including the day of death) - and that was not said about addicts
agreed 100% thats why i said i dont know about conquering.
i still think its helpfull knowing that t can get easier. that was def. said about non addicts, could be addicts too, dunno.  Warning: Spoiler!read my post again, please. 
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24 May 2019 01:19
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higher
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higher wrote:
however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere. not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
growstrong responded:
I think that theres still a misunderstanding here as to what surrender actually means...
Also i feel a little bit like this is the YH talking trying to justify why its better to look at women on the street because at least im partaking in a battle which is what Hashem wants from me!
Surrender isn't letting go of histadlut and blaming it on Hashem...
When i drive past a beautiful girl and my brain and heart tells me wow i wanna look at that, and enjoy that beauty and not from a healthy place - i am making a massive histadlut by letting go of that desire to look and driving past without looking.
Instead of surrendering to that base desire to lust after that gorgeous girl i surrender the action of looking.
In other words - all we are doing every time we are faced with a choice is surrendering.
Every time you want to fight the YH and not look but end up looking you surrendered... Only difference is you surrendered to the YH instead of surrendering the YH.
Most of us lusters are highly experienced at surrender...
We do it ALL the time...
Its a paradigm shift to surrender it instead of surrendering to it.
As i grow the muscle it becomes less of a struggle and more natural to surrender my base desires to 'drink' in the beauty... but ultimately its still a choice i have to make every single time.
Am i going to surrender my rights to look or am i going to surrender to my YH and look.
Does this make more sense?thanks for your explanation.
so higher wrote back:
i will say that i have very little knowledge as to what surrendering really is, i only know what ive gleaned from this site. im not clear as to what your surrendering by doing a hishtadlus NOT to look. that sounds like fighting lust. whats up with the word surrender. just not clear how the emphasis on that aspect clarifies anything. (maybe i dont nderstand the concept of surrendering to hashem well enough. what does that mean even to give up your lust. you have lust. thats a reality. you have to fight it. you have to fight to avoid the fight. no???? again-for non addicts, and just my thoughts, not worth much for the public.)
also, the phrases ive heard until now went something like this ''Hashem i am POWERLESS against this nisayon please help'' THAT expression-''powerless'' is exactly what im focusing on and is the subject of discussion.
finally, this is not at all a trick from the yetzer hara to look at improper things. this is an honest disussion as to a possible correct approach for non addicts.
could be what you said is correct.
i dont understand why though.
which is totally ok, too.
p.s. revenge#342567 of the messed up qoute button!!!
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23 May 2019 07:10
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David26fr
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Is the urge in proximity if an unfiltered computer is so hard that you will fall, even if there a risk to be caught ? Even at work ?
If the answer is yes, I think it can be an indicator of addiction.
And also a good reason to work to avoid these urges, before you are catched...
Another question : did you see if an urge can occur even if you are a good mood ?
Often, the urge is only a symptom, and there is a deeper reason behind the urge. And then, it will be very interesting for you to find it...
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23 May 2019 04:16
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higher
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Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:
higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:
stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.
(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)
i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere. not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. Warning: Spoiler! and if ya dont have a rav, ya better get one fast!
Warning: Spoiler! So what did your Rav say on the issue?
lol.
on a serious note, i think i was pretty clear that this is just my opinnion, i dont have clarity but im not taking the sentiment that others are taking as a simple fact as a given either (that surrendering is for regulars) i could probably ask a daas torah in a roundabout way-or maybe even bluntly. Warning: Spoiler! not that anyone here necessarily gives a tuna fish bagel for my research im just musing and all are invited to share their thoughts.
Warning: Spoiler! sooner or later, dov is gonna get fed up and end this conversation with one of those drashos that im gonna need help getting through. but i dont think im gonna be zoiche to such a prize....one of the top 3, right markz?
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23 May 2019 04:10
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higher
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cordnoy wrote on 23 May 2019 02:41:
Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:
higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:
stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.
(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)
i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere. not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. Warning: Spoiler! and if ya dont have a rav, ya better get one fast!
Warning: Spoiler! So what did your Rav say on the issue?
You only need a Rav if you don't have clarity.
??? i guess asei lecha rav means all those that dont have clarity.
with all due respect what text pirkei avos do you have?
(aside from the fact that in sensitive issues we probably shouldnt be trustin' ourselves too much) Warning: Spoiler!
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23 May 2019 02:41
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cordnoy
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Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:
higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:
stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.
(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)
i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere. not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. Warning: Spoiler! and if ya dont have a rav, ya better get one fast!
Warning: Spoiler! So what did your Rav say on the issue?
You only need a Rav if you don't have clarity.
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23 May 2019 02:21
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Markz
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higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:
stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.
(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)
i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere. not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. Warning: Spoiler! and if ya dont have a rav, ya better get one fast!
Warning: Spoiler! So what did your Rav say on the issue?
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