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28 Nov 2024 22:16
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livingagain
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hashemyishmor7 wrote on 28 Nov 2024 04:17:
Hi friends
Before I start I want to thank the founders and all the people that are involved in making and running this incredible site. And also a huge thanks to all the people that are active here with comments and ideas, it helped me so so much for the past few years that I'm on here quietly noshig for wisdom and clarity.
And אחרון אחרון חביב to the angel @hashemhelpme (I really think he is an angel) for all ur help and time you gave me there is no words to express my gratitude for all your help.
My story I think is too long to write it in detail, maybe I will get to it one day, but to sum it up in short, I'm now in my mid 30's, chasidish, wonderfully married (and fine tuned it after being here for a few years) regular person on the outside turmoil on the inside.
I've tried being clean for years without any real results. my longest and must successful run was 70 days and it ended a week after sukkahs.
Before that I think to myself, that if it would've been a contest of who watched the most p**n and M the most, I would win that contest.
I M'd from the 10 till my 30's on daily basis, I couldn't fall asleep without it. My routine was when I went that I went over what I saw all day and fantasized till I M and then I fell asleep and this was going on for years.I think that not too many people can relate to me with the part of how much my mind was into this. And also getting triggered by both genders makes it even more difficult for me to get out of it, (I stopped going to the mikvah except when I really have to go for a nice few years even though in my circle most people go daily).From my 20 and up p**n was my life, there were days that at work instead of working I watched all day, and at was all night watching sometimes till 5 or 6 am and the next day I walked around like a zombie.and it wasn't just single days here and there this was happening Day after day, and the same goes to the last 3 days. And for the last few years it got even much worse, I got hooked to one of the ppv websites and flushed there thousands of dollars, from money that I didn't have, and even now even without being able to cover monthly basic expenses I'm still spending tons on this websites, don't ask me why I'm doing it, I also know that it doesn't make sense, but the urges are so strong that I can't control myself.Part of why it's so difficult for me to stop I think is because in order to stop, I feel that I have to change tons of things in my life in order to get clean. And also because of my past I feel that this took my away my life from me, I know that what I'm today is not what I'm supposed to be I feel that I ruined my life, God gave me a lot of talent and wisdom and I used none of them, and I that this is the reason why.I already listened more than once already to theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/Im already by page 300 of the fight of our generation book.I'm broken and feel shattered to pieces its a terrible feeling trying to get rid of this and not being able to, I don't know from where I took the strength to pull through till here.I could write hundreds of pages more if I would go more in to detail. But I'm pushing it off for a few years already to post here so I will just press the send button now and will come back for more one day maybeIn the meantime anyone willing that thinks that they could be helpful to me. I would greatly appreciate it. Cause I can't continue anymoreThanks for listening
Maybe being more active, connected and engaged here will help.
What worked for me is a good chaver and we worked on it together. As we both have ssa, we worked on it together through aliyos and yeridos. Especially since you have ssa, a chaver would be truly beneficial. Set some
realistic goals and I think you’ll see real progress. It’s impossible to quit any addiction without a support system. And of course I agree with you
That you have to avoid the Mikva to avoid being triggered
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28 Nov 2024 21:24
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livingagain
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brokensoul wrote on 28 Nov 2024 19:58:
Hello, my name is brokensoul. Some of you may know me from the old SSA forum. To skip to the end, I'm a hard addict of p and m, for 9 years now, I am terrified of what my life will become. All my attempts seem to not work, even SA meetings didn't work for me because it requires being social, which is my weakness (I'm an introvert). I don't want this anymore. I've chased this for so many years and I got nowhere. I'm not sure what it is, I feel like there's more to it than just being addicted. Something deep... I was in therapy for a year but now I'm in EY so I had to leave my therapist. I discovered some terrible things about myself and BH it helped but I'm still a crippling addict. I'm drowning and barely hanging on a thread, in terms of my sanity and yiddishkeit. It's hard to enjoy being a Yid when you are constantly breaking the bris between you and Hashem. How can I daven? How can I ask Hashem for anything when I'm constantly doing one of the worst aveiros one can do? How can I learn? In the moring flying through sugyas in Baba Kama and at night a crazy zombified pervert? Now I happen to daven and learn anyway but I lost the love and enthusiasm that I used to have. Been crushed so many times I'm just like... dead. It's kinda like routine, but no emotion. I don't believe Hashem even accepts my tefilos, but I do it anyway because I happen to be very stubborn and refuse to drop it all despite my feelings.
Would love to hear from the chevra any feedback.
- With love, brokensoul.
I feel your pain, it is substantial. But the more you p&m the more unhappy you become. It’s an addiction. Did you ever try going cold turkey? It my be hard at first but it will break your addiction. Having ssa can be challenging, like you said there’s. Ssa thread that you can read up on. I have connected to others with ssa and it has helped. You can get chizuk from others experiencing the same tavis and frustration. But p&m will not make you happier. The less p&m the happier you’ll be. Proof is in the pudding with how unhappy you are with all the p&m instead of making you happy it makes you miserable. did you try befriending someone you were attracted to? That might give ykou a sipuk. Also If you have a chaver to discuss this with would be better than a therapist.
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28 Nov 2024 20:25
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shmuu
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This post was edited for clarification purposes. I'm responding to myself from a couple years ago. What you went through was a spiritual experience. It's cha'val that the world is unaware of what a spiritual experience looks like. There is very little support for someone going through a spiritual experience. Therefore the person is likely to be diagnosed with a mental illness and the person is likely to be encouraged to forget about the experience. This is cha'val because it also means forgetting all the good that came out from the experience. I believe if we had a support group for these types of experiences we would be able to bring healing to a larger audience. Although in the 12-step program many people also have a spiritual experience, not all spiritual experiences are equal. Indeed to feel isolated because of the experience could be painful and forgetting about it might seem to be the easier way to go. However, if you truly do forget about the entire experience the addiction issue is likely to come back eventually. It might take a few years before the negative behavior returns but it's likely to return. In the blue book it speaks about people having a spiritual experience. Their spiritual experience was 100% balanced perhaps and things went well for them all around. I doubt it's like that for most people and this might explain the unsuccess rate of the 12 step program. It might also explain why "Psychosis" is considered an actual symptom of withdrawal. In realty, this psychosis is mostly a spiritual experience and is a ches'ed from Hashem. For some people this temporary "psychosis" might be the only way for them to truly break free. If only the world would treat it as such, I think we would have many more recovery stories. If there is anyone who is able to support what I'm saying and offer guidance I would love to hear, especially from someone who's been there or who has had a loved one who's been there.
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28 Nov 2024 19:58
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brokensoul
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Hello, my name is brokensoul. Some of you may know me from the old SSA forum. To skip to the end, I'm a hard addict of p and m, for 9 years now, I am terrified of what my life will become. All my attempts seem to not work, even SA meetings didn't work for me because it requires being social, which is my weakness (I'm an introvert). I don't want this anymore. I've chased this for so many years and I got nowhere. I'm not sure what it is, I feel like there's more to it than just being addicted. Something deep... I was in therapy for a year but now I'm in EY so I had to leave my therapist. I discovered some terrible things about myself and BH it helped but I'm still a crippling addict. I'm drowning and barely hanging on a thread, in terms of my sanity and yiddishkeit. It's hard to enjoy being a Yid when you are constantly breaking the bris between you and Hashem. How can I daven? How can I ask Hashem for anything when I'm constantly doing one of the worst aveiros one can do? How can I learn? In the moring flying through sugyas in Baba Kama and at night a crazy zombified pervert? Now I happen to daven and learn anyway but I lost the love and enthusiasm that I used to have. Been crushed so many times I'm just like... dead. It's kinda like routine, but no emotion. I don't believe Hashem even accepts my tefilos, but I do it anyway because I happen to be very stubborn and refuse to drop it all despite my feelings.
Would love to hear from the chevra any feedback.
- With love, brokensoul.
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28 Nov 2024 06:42
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parev
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Day 9
to keep u posted from the other thread:
SO:
I schlepped myself to the meeting on Sunday - ill as the rebbe [no offence]
and approached someone who I thought might be available to sponsor.
He said he's not done al the steps but can help me with step 4
JUST THE MALACH I WAS LOOKING FOR
Anyways he called today [and I schlepped myself out of bed to the car to get some privacy]
and HE WAS SPOT ON!!
My issue always was that I don't have any people to put on the resentment list.
He told me that to have a resentment it means that you were let down by someone, if you have NO-ONE it must mean that you never felt deserving enough in order to be let down. OUCH
He also told me the most common reasons for omitting people on the list 'coz they didn't mean it, they didn't understand, it's not their fault' etc.
But in order to FORGIVE we have to first OWN the hurt.
He then said that if we want a open relationship with Hashem, we as children want that unconditional loving and understanding being-there-for relationship with our parents, and if we didn't get it it's like saying we forgive G-d for October 7th coz he was so busy with the war in Ukraine that Gaza slipped between the cracks. [Hope i'm writing coherently]
So am writing up my list and will keep u posted...!
another gem from my 'sponsor'
[And this may be a key difference between an addict and a ba'al taava]
The idea of step 4 is to
Identify and experience the incidences that cause to act out – because we as addicts act out not from urge rather from justification.
By identifying what makes us rationalize and justify our acting out [even though it's messing up our lives]
we can then work on cleaning the house
I want to admt that I am not living a step 3 quite yet
Ich main that shtiet we ARRIVED to step 3, it's a process that will sink in IYH.
I also have realized that my acting out was from not surrendering the desire for relationship, but not forcing my wife either.
It's part of my step 4 that my wife wasnt there for me when I needed.
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27 Nov 2024 10:08
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iwillmanage
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Some nice questions, Shem, though I'm not sure answering them will be as much of a toieles as you make out. I'll only be adding to the great cholent of experiences to be found on the forum and confuse the oilom even more as they try to figure out the question of all questions, 'Am I an addict?'. It's so easy to try and match one's own experience to the stories you read about on the forum, but the truth is the picture you get from reading someone's posts doesn't begin to portray who they actually are or the true nature of their struggles. I know I would have saved myself a lot of agmas nefesh if I would have focused more on myself and what works for me instead of seeing myself in terms of what I read about here. There's a lot of aspects to my story, I personally don't want to go into great detail of all my deviant and depraved activities, nor can I give you an accurate picture of the reckless risks I was taking daily or how my obsession was taking over my life in every way.
I joined SA because HHM advised me to. Dov, cordnoy and my Rov also strongly advised it, (although as far as I could see, they all had their own take on me and SA). I didn't want to go, I didn't think I had to. But I went, and came to see why they were right.
You've brought me back to this thread, but I hadn't been planning on revisiting it. Reading those posts you quoted on reaching 100 days reminded me of those confused and troubled times when I felt horrible in myself, sad and helpless. I was very superficially clean, the obsession was growing massively, and when I did fall again I experienced the obsession with an intensity like never before, (there's the toxicity to lust, especially strong after abstaining for a while). So thank you for the opportunity to reflect a bit on how I've progressed since then. In SA I began to face myself, accept myself, I learnt what honesty was and also underwent an in-depth ego deflation. I had thought I was 'it'. Better and different to the rest, could do the heck I wanted and immune to the consequences. I faced my relationship with Hashem, my wife and those around me, and it's only beginning. Occasionally it feels like I'm putting myself through my own soul-surgery without painkillers, but the rewards are priceless. To live grounded in reality, free from the hellish obsession and all it brings one day at a time. And to experience growth from where I'm at.
Thanks for letting me share! 
If not for anyone else, there was toieles for me. So thanks!
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26 Nov 2024 23:12
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ShtettlMan
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I wanna tell more about my story here, maybe it will help me
When I was a child (maybe 6-7), I was sleeping with my father bc my mother wasn't home. I woke up in the middle of the night and I saw images on TV I had never seen yet: P. It was really hardcore with awful images (it makes me feel weird just remembering it), there was even some gay scenes in it (sorry I dont know how to call it, maybe the way of סודום would be a better expression). I never told anyone about that.
I watched P for the first time when I was 10, and I started M quite at the same age because of a טמא who talked about it on Youtube. It kept going til 14, then I was watching P for a year without M.
At the age of 11 I remember talking really dirty about girls. One year later I sent s** pictures to a friend of mine (who was sending too). This scared me and didn't talk to him during 4 years because of that, I was feeling like he had forced me even if it was not the case.
I'm not suffering of SSA as I'm only attracted to women, I never watched gay P, and go to mikveh every week without any trigger.
When I was 16 (so after 2 years clean of M) I had a one-time fall, then I went to a camp and was the only guy who was not addict to M. They told me I was a big tzadik, and I felt so confident: everyone was doing it. I started M everyday, sometimes multiple times a day. It was the worst time of my life about עניני קדושה.
When I went to EY to Yeshiva, I had sequences without it but never did a full zman (the longest might be 2 months), and I fell every bein hazmanim.
I'm now a bit over 20, and discovered GYE about 6 months ago. It changed my life, made me understand that these issues wouldn't just leave after the Chuppah, and taught me how to make a gameplan and prevent setbacks.
If I look at my issues, it's only been P&M and never tried to go further but when I read all the stories here I realize how far it can continue.
Sorry if I wasn't clear and thank you for reading !
I feel quite better now, even though I don't really know why
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25 Nov 2024 21:51
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chancy
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dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 19:53:
chancy wrote on 25 Nov 2024 18:52:
dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 17:04:
I'm still feeling very blah : ( I don't have crazy urges, but I will still masturbate out of habit. I lost my motivation to stop. So why am I even here? Good question... I guess deep down I want to stop. But right not I'm so uninspired religiously, so Kedusha is not enough of a motivation. And occasional masturbation is largely considered to be a healthy practice thus the reason not to engage is religious. As I'm writing this I'm aware that the reality I'm experiencing right now may change in an instance, but this is what I'm feeling now. It's very common for me to be an atheist and a strong believer in the same day. I crave stability!
Hi McDreamy,
You can find many posts and threads here on GYE explaining that religion is not the only and sometimes not a good reason to stop.
The real reason has to be YOU.
You should not be addicted to something. And not being able to stop is sort of an addiction. you are not in charge. If your married, then you are stopping because you love your family and you dont want to hurt them. etc. there are lot of reason other then religion.
Another thing, I dont think you are an atheist, you can listen to Rabbi Noach Weinberg ZL's shiurim on this subject.
I think you need to back up and really work on your beliefs. Its hard for anyone to resolve to doing anything if he doesnt know his place in this world and who he is.
I wish you clarity and peace of mind.
I pray for your healing. May you be filled with love and compassion for Hashem and His children.
chancy, go-ahead make the case, why is it so important to stop? Again, I'm not talking about watching porn, I'm talking about masturbating occasionally. Make the case, why is it so destructive? I also have a habit of biting my nails, do I need to stop that too? Of course I want, it would be nice but I don't get the sense of urgency.
I am not an atheist, because that would be " believing" in nothing. I'm more skeptical and feeling very distant, it just doesn't feel like a real thing to make me act or not to act based on that. Just the way I'm feeling very often.
I take your blessing - I am lost and do not have the clarity I so desperately need
You have not written enough here to understand where you are coming from. So ill share my thoughts with the hopes that it resonates with you.
One of the main things that pushed me to stop M and P is because I started having questions in Emunah, I was really struggling for a while. I had an opportunity to have a real relationship with a goyta i got very close with at work, and i was actively fighting her advances. After a while i started questioning, why are you fighting it? who says there is anything wrong? who says there is anything out there that cares what I do? it took my on a serious trip. I was in real trouble.
Then, I saw in a sefer that not being holy and doing these kinds of things make one weak in Emunah! It was a real slap in the face and a lightbulb at the same moment!
That was one of the major things that got me to start working on M and P. I couldnt and didnt want to lose my Yidishkiet.
So you see, here is another reason to stop.
You are obviously not comfortable being in this place of believer/atheist/not sure/blah.
So why not trust the holy sfarim and the holy yiden here that are crying to you 'stay clean and you will get better' try it for yourself and you will thank us!.
I really feel your pain, I wish I can help with what you are going thru. The best I can do now is holding your hands across the computer and crying with you.
Love
Chancy
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25 Nov 2024 21:34
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chosemyshem
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dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 19:53:
chancy wrote on 25 Nov 2024 18:52:
chancy, go-ahead make the case, why is it so important to stop? Again, I'm not talking about watching porn, I'm talking about masturbating occasionally. Make the case, why is it so destructive? I also have a habit of biting my nails, do I need to stop that too? Of course I want, it would be nice but I don't get the sense of urgency.
I am not an atheist, because that would be " believing" in nothing. I'm more skeptical and feeling very distant, it just doesn't feel like a real thing to make me act or not to act based on that. Just the way I'm feeling very often.
I take your blessing - I am lost and do not have the clarity I so desperately need
I'll swing at this pitch (not the religion one. That's way outta my pay grade.)
Are you only occasionally masturbating? Or does the occasional masturbation occasionally lead to sporadic porn use too? And does that lead to binges and to . . . It's all part of the same nasty soup.
You gotta be honest with yourself.
Of course, it's possible that you're just a normal man with normal urges, and have no particular problem. Masturbation is selfish and whatnot (downright masturbatory!), but if religion ain't convincing you, a little bit of selfishness probably won't either.
No one except you can make you want to or choose to stop. But here are a 1) couple 2) relevant Dov talks. He's pretty persuasive.
Good luck!
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25 Nov 2024 19:53
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dreamyunicorn28
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chancy wrote on 25 Nov 2024 18:52:
dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 17:04:
I'm still feeling very blah : ( I don't have crazy urges, but I will still masturbate out of habit. I lost my motivation to stop. So why am I even here? Good question... I guess deep down I want to stop. But right not I'm so uninspired religiously, so Kedusha is not enough of a motivation. And occasional masturbation is largely considered to be a healthy practice thus the reason not to engage is religious. As I'm writing this I'm aware that the reality I'm experiencing right now may change in an instance, but this is what I'm feeling now. It's very common for me to be an atheist and a strong believer in the same day. I crave stability!
Hi McDreamy,
You can find many posts and threads here on GYE explaining that religion is not the only and sometimes not a good reason to stop.
The real reason has to be YOU.
You should not be addicted to something. And not being able to stop is sort of an addiction. you are not in charge. If your married, then you are stopping because you love your family and you dont want to hurt them. etc. there are lot of reason other then religion.
Another thing, I dont think you are an atheist, you can listen to Rabbi Noach Weinberg ZL's shiurim on this subject.
I think you need to back up and really work on your beliefs. Its hard for anyone to resolve to doing anything if he doesnt know his place in this world and who he is.
I wish you clarity and peace of mind.
I pray for your healing. May you be filled with love and compassion for Hashem and His children.
chancy, go-ahead make the case, why is it so important to stop? Again, I'm not talking about watching porn, I'm talking about masturbating occasionally. Make the case, why is it so destructive? I also have a habit of biting my nails, do I need to stop that too? Of course I want, it would be nice but I don't get the sense of urgency.
I am not an atheist, because that would be " believing" in nothing. I'm more skeptical and feeling very distant, it just doesn't feel like a real thing to make me act or not to act based on that. Just the way I'm feeling very often.
I take your blessing - I am lost and do not have the clarity I so desperately need
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25 Nov 2024 18:52
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chancy
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dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 25 Nov 2024 17:04:
I'm still feeling very blah : ( I don't have crazy urges, but I will still masturbate out of habit. I lost my motivation to stop. So why am I even here? Good question... I guess deep down I want to stop. But right not I'm so uninspired religiously, so Kedusha is not enough of a motivation. And occasional masturbation is largely considered to be a healthy practice thus the reason not to engage is religious. As I'm writing this I'm aware that the reality I'm experiencing right now may change in an instance, but this is what I'm feeling now. It's very common for me to be an atheist and a strong believer in the same day. I crave stability!
Hi McDreamy,
You can find many posts and threads here on GYE explaining that religion is not the only and sometimes not a good reason to stop.
The real reason has to be YOU.
You should not be addicted to something. And not being able to stop is sort of an addiction. you are not in charge. If your married, then you are stopping because you love your family and you dont want to hurt them. etc. there are lot of reason other then religion.
Another thing, I dont think you are an atheist, you can listen to Rabbi Noach Weinberg ZL's shiurim on this subject.
I think you need to back up and really work on your beliefs. Its hard for anyone to resolve to doing anything if he doesnt know his place in this world and who he is.
I wish you clarity and peace of mind.
I pray for your healing. May you be filled with love and compassion for Hashem and His children.
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24 Nov 2024 17:25
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ilovehashem247
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had a great time at the Shabbaton
I had a personal breakthrough in the meditation room, and forgave myself for the harm I've done with my alcohol+lust-drunk interactions with a young woman related to me by marriage. I also became willing to disclose that interaction in my upcoming disclosure (although I am working with my therapist to word it in a way that will retain the victim's anonymity). It was eye opening to listen to spouses in keynote speeches and in couples' meetings and gain perspective of the coaddict's journey. It gave my wife hope too that my ups and downs do not have to be her ups and downs. There are many women who shared how when they no longer took responsibility for their husbands' lust addictions and behaviors, the husbands had to face the reality that they need to recover on their own and can't blame the wife. I needed to hear that...
Very grateful that our baby came along for the weekend. Was very overwhelmed at times and playing with the baby was a great distraction / relaxation method.
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22 Nov 2024 13:32
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odyossefchai
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Day 83.
Shmiras einayim is an issue.
I'm trying not to put pressure on myself, as the important issue I'm working on is PandM and BH I've had success with that.
83 days is a new life for me. Free from the shackles of the pain and double life I was living.
BH marriage is way better, intimacy is completely different these days. I'm not addicted to sex. I'm in love with my wife. We are very lucky.
Rabbosai, if you are struggling, reach out. Don't be shy. I know it's hard to open up to new people and share your innermost pain but it's worth it.
The first few phone calls I made were so raw and painful but it helped me break free.
Counting down now till 90 and working on my thoughts.
Wishing you all a shabbos filled with Simcha, warmth and love. Lchaims will be flowing tonight.
Not too much because then I get too tired and can't learn after the meal!
Gut shabbos
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22 Nov 2024 10:10
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iwillmanage
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chaimoigen wrote on 21 Nov 2024 14:22:
Loaded post with a lot of thought provoking questions.
I am not sure some of the Hanachos are correct. I personally have not found your bolded statement to be true in my experience here. I have thankfully forged a network of GYE friends who have extremely long streaks BH and do not identify as addicts. It's possible that the sampling of my experience is only because those are the guys that I speak with, and message with, etc. But I am a pretty solid student of the forums, and I don't see your statement to be accurate in my experience.
[It [b]used to be the way you wrote, in the pre-HHM era of GYE. It seems from the threads that guys who were solidly stuck in the mud only got out by admitting they were addicts and working the steps. But more recently [probably "post HHM"] it seems that things are very different. There are dozens and dozens (probably more) of guys who were deep in and got out. The other programs and methods on the site are helpful, the forums, connections; the subsequent relationships and mentorships, the learned ability to create paradigm shifts and so much more , all this have contributed to many guys breaking free without SA. I learned a lot from reading about SA, probably everyone can. But I think the majority of guys who come here can try other methods of breaking free first, with a lot of hope.
I say that after having spoken with and BH helping a lot of new guys, the way I was helped BH. I'm sure there are people who may pile on me now to point out that their experience is very different.
It's worth mentioning that even in the 'post HHM era' there are those that don't find recovery until joining SA. I think there's a risk here of people not making progress, falling again and again whilst being injected with the constant chizzuk boosts of 'you're winning if you're fighting' and the like, and they're sure that if the HHM method works for others it must work for them too. It doesn't occur to them that for whatever reason, they're case might be different. That was my experience in any case. Being in touch with HHM daily for months but not breaking free (although I was 'clean' for a few months), I didn't dream that I was different to the others who it was working for. Better off, in fact. I'm grateful to him and others for suggesting that I join SA where I found my path to recovery. I'll be celebrating 6 months in a few days.
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22 Nov 2024 06:00
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simchastorah
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Day 19
Thanks for the responses, especially if you addressed the questions.
I want to make it clear that I am not considering going to SA, am not concerned that I'm an addict, and don't even particularly care what an addict is. What I do care about is hearing what has helped people long term, because short term was not a problem for me in the past.
To summarize the response, and sorry if you feel I'm not doing justice, feel free to let me know:
ChaimOigen:
Identify the source of the problem and the triggers
Chancy:
Reflect deeply on where you want to go and how your behavior is affecting your getting there
ChooseMyShem:
Fix my relationship with Hashem, learn to rely on Him, be deeply honest
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