26 Feb 2025 18:40
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time2win
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ilovehashem247 wrote on 26 Feb 2025 05:45:
Polished draft of sexual betrayal disclosure to my wife:
*strong trigger warning* Warning: Spoiler!seriously, this is your last warning. It's important content. not graphic, but also not for the faint of heart Warning: Spoiler!Intro: Dear Mrs. ILH, my goal for this disclosure is to be completely open and honest about all my past sexual betrayals. I know that this is the path to alleviating the distance we feel from one another and also the right choice for us in order to continue on our journey of bonding and recovery. I am willing to answer any questions you have about any of my past behaviors, and commit myself to being honest with you as well as to myself moving forward. I am also affirming my commitment to my continued recovery and to healing and growing together in our relationship. I recognize that this whole topic is extremely disturbing for you to hear and I understand that the impact of my actions is extremely far reaching. It has affected our relationship on a fundamental level, and I have betrayed your trust in the most sensitive area in your life. I made the choice to betray your trust with my actions, and I understand that my betrayals have shattered your trust in me, leaving you feeling deeply wounded and insecure, and our marriage and relationship in a precarious state. I am truly remorseful for the pain I've caused you and for the sense of safety I've stolen from you. I have not allowed you to feel that you can be emotionally vulnerable with me, and I have been a source of trauma and anxiety in your life. I am sorry and hope that you can accept my apology for the harm and pain that I have caused you – I am committing myself to being there for you, no longer how long it takes for you to heal from my actions and selfish & self-seeking attitudes. I will continue to work on myself and our relationship, and I understand that earning back your trust will take time. I love you very much and hope that this disclosure - as painful as it may be - will help us rebuild our bond of trust and faith. I am also committing myself to working with you on creating a system of accountability that will lay out the rules and guidelines of the steps I’ll need to begin to take, and constantly continue to take to rebuild trust. Some accountability steps I’ve already incorporated into my life are regular checks-ins with my SA sponsor as well as a network of fellows in recovery, active participation in 12 step groups and step work, and a commitment to increase honesty and transparency in our relationship. Some further levels of accountability can include check ins when I feel that I am struggling with lust or resentments, as well as any other measures that we and our network of mentors and friends can help us figure out. Here we go. Are you ready to listen to me share my story? My acting out started from before we met. I was molested by two girls my age when I was 11, the younger sister watched while the older sister performed oral sex on me. Since then, my lust drive was stuck on full throttle. I used sexuality to try and reframe and recreate what I experienced at age 11 in many different ways, but it didn’t help me get any better. Over the years my acting out escalated, and started to increase with alcohol consumption in 8th grade, and marijuana usage in high school. I was molested by the older of the two sisters again at 13 years old, and then continuously over the course of 2 and a half years from 14 to 16 and a half by a female tutor. I would fantasize and masturbate constantly, often compulsively & to the point of pain. I used masturbation to control anxiety and sexual acting out to try and reverse the female domination that I had endured since childhood. My sexual interactions in high school include oral sex from a Jewish public-school girl, “hooking up/kissing” girls, and oral and vaginal sex with one girlfriend multiple times over the course of several months, always with protection. I started “hooking up” with my former girlfriend while I was in the middle of a fledgling relationship with another girl. I acknowledge my history of betrayal of a trusting relationship in this regard. I did not act out with other people when I was in yeshiva for two years, but did engage in a lot of fantasy and compulsive masturbation. I first engaged in prostitution in college, paying exclusively for oral sex, as a means to ease my anxiety and on a deeper level, as an attempt to process the trauma I went through at ages 11 and 14-16 when I was being molested. This was at its worst when I came back from yeshiva and during my semester or two in college in New York City. I was sickened by the prostitution, especially after a young girl walked in on her mother performing oral sex on me. I walked away immediately when I saw the girl watching. After that I started going to massage parlors, most often not engaging in any sexual interaction, rather fantasizing that I was doing exhibitionism in a controlled environment (by getting a massage in the nude). I had protected vaginal sex at a massage parlor twice before marriage. Prior to meeting you, I engaged in the following behaviors: · Pornography (video and erotic stories) · Compulsive masturbation · Betrayal in a trusting relationship · Prostitution · Objectifying women · Lying · Manipulating people · Alcohol and Marijuana abuse Although I entered our marriage having ceased getting high and acting out with other women for at least 6 months, I was still a “dry drunk.” I objectified and used you as a sex object for several years, and did not give you the respect you deserve as a woman, let alone as my wife. You must have felt horrible! I own that it was selfish of me to blame you for your “dryness” and for sending you to doctors to get you “fixed.” I am truly sorry for putting you through those toxic experiences with me, and pray that my sober actions today and in the future will help in making a living amends to you for what I put you through in our marriage. I did not get high or masturbate until you were pregnant with out second son. I bought some weed when we spent the summer upstate by your sister and biked to the fancy summer camp down the hill and got high. I spent the rest of that summer wasted. When our second son was born, my anxiety increased and I began turning to pornography and masturbation again. You caught me once with erotic literature, and I told you it was a one-off thing, which was a lie. I am sorry for my dishonestly and manipulation of your trust. You knew the truth but I tricked you into doubting yourself. That was unfair and malicious of me. It was not right of me to cause you to question your sanity! During the next few years, I struggled with counting days of sexual and substance related sobriety. COVID is when things really fell apart for me. I lost my job and didn’t know what to do with myself, especially when we moved in with my parents. I turned to marijuana to help me cope with my anxiety yet again. I left you to care for our several young children all alone, and never gave you the space to feel comfortable asking for help. You worked so hard when I could have been there for you. I abandoned you in your time of need. I’m so sorry! When I started working for my father as COVID lockdowns were loosening up, I struggled a lot with lust in the workplace and the anxiety caused by the extremely toxic work culture, plus the lack of work structure & the high demands my father placed on me in the office. I started getting high and began going to massage parlors again. Most of my visits were lust-filled exhibitionist fantasy indulgences that the massage lady enjoyed massaging me as I was nude. I failed to be there for you when both of your parents were going through chemo, especially when I was supposed to spend shabbat with your father but instead spent the weekend getting high and drunk in the city. I also failed you when our third son had a febrile seizure, and instead of coming to help you, I picked up some weed and got high. It hurts so much to know I broke your trust. I was completely selfish, and I hate that I did that to you. Around this time, I was being drawn deeper and deeper into the cult that we were eventually ejected from in December of 2022. In September of 2022, when I was in the depths of my rock bottom – physically handicapped after the car accident in early September & being spiritually, emotionally, and financially drained by the cult and trying to be even more “frum” to rectify my misdemeanors – I had my first sexual encounter with another woman since we got married. I had left some business cards after eating at a local bagel shop (to promote our new business). I remember benching extra long with a hat, jacket, and tie and getting a text the next day from one of the female workers at the shop. She sent me extremely provocative nude photos and told me she wanted to have sex with me. The lust sent me into overdrive, and we met by her house. She performed oral sex on me and in the small moment of clarity afterward, I refused her demands for sex, kicked her out of the car, and drove home. That week, I reached out for help. I called Dr. P, the famous psychologist, and opened up to another person for the first time about the tremendous pain and struggle I was shamefully hiding for years. 9 days after the incident with this woman, I opened my Guard Your Eyes account and I started writing my journal. I went to my first SA meeting around then, was terrified from what I heard and left. I joined AA shortly after, and my 2nd sponsor (John P) urged me to get an SA sponsor. It took about another year until I got an SA sponsor. Something is not an MO but I feel responsible to share is an incident that occurred on May 20th ‘23, when we were at your sister’s house for Shabbat lunch. I was heavily intoxicated during the meal and at some point, noticed her oldest daughter masturbating herself with my foot. I was startled when I noticed and pulled away immediately. The next week, on May 27th, I was heavily intoxicated again at their house and am concerned that it might have happened again – that there was some sort of inappropriate physical touching going on. It terrified me that this could happen a second time after I was aware of the issue, and other than a small sip on June 3rd (the next shabbat - at our nephew’s bar mitzvah), I never had a drink or drug since. Potentially harming children is a line I cannot bear to cross and have done everything that is in my power, to never ever be in that situation ever again. My AA sobriety date is the following Sunday, June 4th 2023. On two occasions after our marriage, I visited massage parlors that were actually brothels and had protected vaginal sex. The first was in late 2023 or early 2024, shortly after I started in SA. I wanted “one last hurrah” but felt disgusting afterwards. I stayed “dry” for about 6 months until doing it again in August of 2024. The second and final time was on Tisha b’av of ‘24 – I told you I went to a shiur but I really went out looking for a massage parlor prostitute. That summer I really struggled with fantasy, masturbation, and lust. Thank G-d, one day at a time, I’ve been sober in SA since August 21st, 2024. Going to meetings, calling my sponsor, praying, doing step work, and overall doing my best to work a solid 12 step program on a daily basis are all things that make a massive difference in what my sobriety looks like today. I recognize that this is a one-day-at-a-time program and the only sobriety I can really, really count is what I have today. I am powerless over lust, and it’s made my life unmanageable – but I found a solution that works. I don’t know if my addictions stem from genetics or from my traumas in childhood and adulthood, but the point here is not who or what to blame, rather what is the next right thing that I can do today to life a productive and sober life. Summary of figures: · Financial impact: I estimate that I spend $1500-$2500 of our own money on substances and women, and $1000-$2000 of cash I skimmed from my father’s petty cash account from his business, which I will need to repay when I make my step 9 amends to him. · Acting out with other women: I had three extramarital sexual encounters in our marriage, one oral and two vaginal. I had myself STD tested & the results were negative for any STDS. I acknowledge that I have exposed you and our children to sexually transmitted diseases, and understand that you must be horrified to learn this. Conclusion: Mrs. ILH, I cannot even image how difficult it is for you to hear and digest all of this information, and I understand that you’ll need some time to process everything I just told you. I understand if you feel angry, confused, betrayed, or any other emotion that comes up for you. Your feelings are valid, and I want to create a safe space for you to express them. I hope you can forgive me, even if it feels impossible right now. I am willing to give you whatever time you need and whatever support I can provide to help you take care of yourself. I shared things with you today that are extremely difficult to bear – I am still working on forgiving myself and for relieving myself of the burden of shame I carry upon my heart every single day due to my actions. I support whatever you need to do to take care of yourself, and am open to hearing of any new boundaries that you would like to share with me. I am fully committed to doing whatever it takes to worker on and repair our relationship. I know words are not enough, and I will show you through my actions that I am committed to change. I love you Sincerely, ILH
My two cents:
1) truly sorry for all the abuse you went through! Hard to hear about. Hopefully your wife can appreciate how that impacted/caused your struggle, and give you some grace. You’ve clearly put a lot of effort into recovery
2) thanks for sharing how deep the rabbit hole of addiction goes. It serves as a cautionary tale for the rest of us
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26 Feb 2025 05:45
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ilovehashem247
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Polished draft of sexual betrayal disclosure to my wife:
*strong trigger warning* Warning: Spoiler!seriously, this is your last warning. It's important content. not graphic, but also not for the faint of heart Warning: Spoiler!Intro: Dear Mrs. ILH, my goal for this disclosure is to be completely open and honest about all my past sexual betrayals. I know that this is the path to alleviating the distance we feel from one another and also the right choice for us in order to continue on our journey of bonding and recovery. I am willing to answer any questions you have about any of my past behaviors, and commit myself to being honest with you as well as to myself moving forward. I am also affirming my commitment to my continued recovery and to healing and growing together in our relationship. I recognize that this whole topic is extremely disturbing for you to hear and I understand that the impact of my actions is extremely far reaching. It has affected our relationship on a fundamental level, and I have betrayed your trust in the most sensitive area in your life. I made the choice to betray your trust with my actions, and I understand that my betrayals have shattered your trust in me, leaving you feeling deeply wounded and insecure, and our marriage and relationship in a precarious state. I am truly remorseful for the pain I've caused you and for the sense of safety I've stolen from you. I have not allowed you to feel that you can be emotionally vulnerable with me, and I have been a source of trauma and anxiety in your life. I am sorry and hope that you can accept my apology for the harm and pain that I have caused you – I am committing myself to being there for you, no longer how long it takes for you to heal from my actions and selfish & self-seeking attitudes. I will continue to work on myself and our relationship, and I understand that earning back your trust will take time. I love you very much and hope that this disclosure - as painful as it may be - will help us rebuild our bond of trust and faith. I am also committing myself to working with you on creating a system of accountability that will lay out the rules and guidelines of the steps I’ll need to begin to take, and constantly continue to take to rebuild trust. Some accountability steps I’ve already incorporated into my life are regular checks-ins with my SA sponsor as well as a network of fellows in recovery, active participation in 12 step groups and step work, and a commitment to increase honesty and transparency in our relationship. Some further levels of accountability can include check ins when I feel that I am struggling with lust or resentments, as well as any other measures that we and our network of mentors and friends can help us figure out. Here we go. Are you ready to listen to me share my story? My acting out started from before we met. I was molested by two girls my age when I was 11, the younger sister watched while the older sister performed oral sex on me. Since then, my lust drive was stuck on full throttle. I used sexuality to try and reframe and recreate what I experienced at age 11 in many different ways, but it didn’t help me get any better. Over the years my acting out escalated, and started to increase with alcohol consumption in 8th grade, and marijuana usage in high school. I was molested by the older of the two sisters again at 13 years old, and then continuously over the course of 2 and a half years from 14 to 16 and a half by a female tutor. I would fantasize and masturbate constantly, often compulsively & to the point of pain. I used masturbation to control anxiety and sexual acting out to try and reverse the female domination that I had endured since childhood. My sexual interactions in high school include oral sex from a Jewish public-school girl, “hooking up/kissing” girls, and oral and vaginal sex with one girlfriend multiple times over the course of several months, always with protection. I started “hooking up” with my former girlfriend while I was in the middle of a fledgling relationship with another girl. I acknowledge my history of betrayal of a trusting relationship in this regard. I did not act out with other people when I was in yeshiva for two years, but did engage in a lot of fantasy and compulsive masturbation. I first engaged in prostitution in college, paying exclusively for oral sex, as a means to ease my anxiety and on a deeper level, as an attempt to process the trauma I went through at ages 11 and 14-16 when I was being molested. This was at its worst when I came back from yeshiva and during my semester or two in college in New York City. I was sickened by the prostitution, especially after a young girl walked in on her mother performing oral sex on me. I walked away immediately when I saw the girl watching. After that I started going to massage parlors, most often not engaging in any sexual interaction, rather fantasizing that I was doing exhibitionism in a controlled environment (by getting a massage in the nude). I had protected vaginal sex at a massage parlor twice before marriage. Prior to meeting you, I engaged in the following behaviors: · Pornography (video and erotic stories) · Compulsive masturbation · Betrayal in a trusting relationship · Prostitution · Objectifying women · Lying · Manipulating people · Alcohol and Marijuana abuse Although I entered our marriage having ceased getting high and acting out with other women for at least 6 months, I was still a “dry drunk.” I objectified and used you as a sex object for several years, and did not give you the respect you deserve as a woman, let alone as my wife. You must have felt horrible! I own that it was selfish of me to blame you for your “dryness” and for sending you to doctors to get you “fixed.” I am truly sorry for putting you through those toxic experiences with me, and pray that my sober actions today and in the future will help in making a living amends to you for what I put you through in our marriage. I did not get high or masturbate until you were pregnant with out second son. I bought some weed when we spent the summer upstate by your sister and biked to the fancy summer camp down the hill and got high. I spent the rest of that summer wasted. When our second son was born, my anxiety increased and I began turning to pornography and masturbation again. You caught me once with erotic literature, and I told you it was a one-off thing, which was a lie. I am sorry for my dishonestly and manipulation of your trust. You knew the truth but I tricked you into doubting yourself. That was unfair and malicious of me. It was not right of me to cause you to question your sanity! During the next few years, I struggled with counting days of sexual and substance related sobriety. COVID is when things really fell apart for me. I lost my job and didn’t know what to do with myself, especially when we moved in with my parents. I turned to marijuana to help me cope with my anxiety yet again. I left you to care for our several young children all alone, and never gave you the space to feel comfortable asking for help. You worked so hard when I could have been there for you. I abandoned you in your time of need. I’m so sorry! When I started working for my father as COVID lockdowns were loosening up, I struggled a lot with lust in the workplace and the anxiety caused by the extremely toxic work culture, plus the lack of work structure & the high demands my father placed on me in the office. I started getting high and began going to massage parlors again. Most of my visits were lust-filled exhibitionist fantasy indulgences that the massage lady enjoyed massaging me as I was nude. I failed to be there for you when both of your parents were going through chemo, especially when I was supposed to spend shabbat with your father but instead spent the weekend getting high and drunk in the city. I also failed you when our third son had a febrile seizure, and instead of coming to help you, I picked up some weed and got high. It hurts so much to know I broke your trust. I was completely selfish, and I hate that I did that to you. Around this time, I was being drawn deeper and deeper into the cult that we were eventually ejected from in December of 2022. In September of 2022, when I was in the depths of my rock bottom – physically handicapped after the car accident in early September & being spiritually, emotionally, and financially drained by the cult and trying to be even more “frum” to rectify my misdemeanors – I had my first sexual encounter with another woman since we got married. I had left some business cards after eating at a local bagel shop (to promote our new business). I remember benching extra long with a hat, jacket, and tie and getting a text the next day from one of the female workers at the shop. She sent me extremely provocative nude photos and told me she wanted to have sex with me. The lust sent me into overdrive, and we met by her house. She performed oral sex on me and in the small moment of clarity afterward, I refused her demands for sex, kicked her out of the car, and drove home. That week, I reached out for help. I called Dr. P, the famous psychologist, and opened up to another person for the first time about the tremendous pain and struggle I was shamefully hiding for years. 9 days after the incident with this woman, I opened my Guard Your Eyes account and I started writing my journal. I went to my first SA meeting around then, was terrified from what I heard and left. I joined AA shortly after, and my 2nd sponsor (John P) urged me to get an SA sponsor. It took about another year until I got an SA sponsor. Something is not an MO but I feel responsible to share is an incident that occurred on May 20th ‘23, when we were at your sister’s house for Shabbat lunch. I was heavily intoxicated during the meal and at some point, noticed her oldest daughter masturbating herself with my foot. I was startled when I noticed and pulled away immediately. The next week, on May 27th, I was heavily intoxicated again at their house and am concerned that it might have happened again – that there was some sort of inappropriate physical touching going on. It terrified me that this could happen a second time after I was aware of the issue, and other than a small sip on June 3rd (the next shabbat - at our nephew’s bar mitzvah), I never had a drink or drug since. Potentially harming children is a line I cannot bear to cross and have done everything that is in my power, to never ever be in that situation ever again. My AA sobriety date is the following Sunday, June 4th 2023. On two occasions after our marriage, I visited massage parlors that were actually brothels and had protected vaginal sex. The first was in late 2023 or early 2024, shortly after I started in SA. I wanted “one last hurrah” but felt disgusting afterwards. I stayed “dry” for about 6 months until doing it again in August of 2024. The second and final time was on Tisha b’av of ‘24 – I told you I went to a shiur but I really went out looking for a massage parlor prostitute. That summer I really struggled with fantasy, masturbation, and lust. Thank G-d, one day at a time, I’ve been sober in SA since August 21st, 2024. Going to meetings, calling my sponsor, praying, doing step work, and overall doing my best to work a solid 12 step program on a daily basis are all things that make a massive difference in what my sobriety looks like today. I recognize that this is a one-day-at-a-time program and the only sobriety I can really, really count is what I have today. I am powerless over lust, and it’s made my life unmanageable – but I found a solution that works. I don’t know if my addictions stem from genetics or from my traumas in childhood and adulthood, but the point here is not who or what to blame, rather what is the next right thing that I can do today to life a productive and sober life. Summary of figures: · Financial impact: I estimate that I spend $1500-$2500 of our own money on substances and women, and $1000-$2000 of cash I skimmed from my father’s petty cash account from his business, which I will need to repay when I make my step 9 amends to him. · Acting out with other women: I had three extramarital sexual encounters in our marriage, one oral and two vaginal. I had myself STD tested & the results were negative for any STDS. I acknowledge that I have exposed you and our children to sexually transmitted diseases, and understand that you must be horrified to learn this. Conclusion: Mrs. ILH, I cannot even image how difficult it is for you to hear and digest all of this information, and I understand that you’ll need some time to process everything I just told you. I understand if you feel angry, confused, betrayed, or any other emotion that comes up for you. Your feelings are valid, and I want to create a safe space for you to express them. I hope you can forgive me, even if it feels impossible right now. I am willing to give you whatever time you need and whatever support I can provide to help you take care of yourself. I shared things with you today that are extremely difficult to bear – I am still working on forgiving myself and for relieving myself of the burden of shame I carry upon my heart every single day due to my actions. I support whatever you need to do to take care of yourself, and am open to hearing of any new boundaries that you would like to share with me. I am fully committed to doing whatever it takes to worker on and repair our relationship. I know words are not enough, and I will show you through my actions that I am committed to change. I love you Sincerely, ILH
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25 Feb 2025 20:40
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yosefms
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Hey Rabbeinu,
First off you are a grand tzadik! Your post is really important, remember just because you have completely and utterly destroyed the addiction to p&m doesn't mean you have killed off your yetzer hora for normal things. I'm afraid when it comes to normal desires you do have to do some good old fashioned fighting with him. I hope no-one will give me too much backlash for saying this but, counting days works for some people and for others it is pointless.... Since you've totally removed the need for p&m I cant see why you would want to count... again no disrespect to people that do find this a benefit. But The Grave knows where I'm coming from
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25 Feb 2025 14:52
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yoshi
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Today has been a rough day on my end (since this topic isn’t in the B-B section, I’ll keep it very brief). I could say that the state of nidda is sometimes difficult for both halves of the couple, and this morning I had to deal with this issue, and then some harchakot weren’t respected. Honestly, it was frustrating in the moment because I had mixed feelings—on one hand, my mind and conscience didn’t want to go through with it, but on the other hand, the excitement and the desire to please were too strong. But At the end I truly want something better for my marriage Then, at lunchtime, I found myself searching in an online bookstore for inappropriate books. I didn’t download or read anything, nothing at all, but I don’t even know why I did it—just out of habit? Someone in this thread already mentioned that when you have an addiction to P, your brain gets "hacked" and starts translating various emotions into "I’m aroused, I need to seek out P." Maybe it was something like that. Honestly, that moment of inappropriate closeness earlier really frustrated me, but at the same time, I felt drawn in, driven by a strong excitement, which led to contradictory thoughts in my head. Then, during my lunch break, I went looking for those inappropriate books—partly because of the indecent covers, and also to read something "exciting " even if i didn't read anything. That being said, my streak is still holding . I’m keeping myself away from anything related to that "area" and even the urge is much weaker now. But there’s still that lingering curiosity to "discover things on the internet."
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25 Feb 2025 09:56
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yoshi
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altehmirrer wrote on 24 Feb 2025 21:32:
I hear and understand you brother, so first off here's a big huge altehmirrer style hug!
Btw just for a piece of my great mind  , it makes alot of sense to think like that, since we trained ourselves to only feel connected through sex, but in reality (altehmirrer reality) that is not a real connection at all! rather it's a escape! Iyh as we continue on this journey, we will learn and develop an emotional connection with ourselves and our wives.... in and out of the bedroom, so the healthier we get (avade with the help from the greats!) the more connected and accepting and fulfilled we will feel. (talking to myself out loud on your thread, yea yea).
Hatzlocha! and again here's a warm hug from a kolteh mirrer!
To continue the reflection, I’m not sure if it’s not a real connection. Personally, I see it more as an easier way to seek connection. For example, when I’m hungry, I have two options: I can either eat some store-bought tomato sauce with pasta that doesn’t taste great, or I can take the time, energy, and extra money to cook a proper meal, which will ultimately be of much better quality. I see relationships the same way.If we assume that this addiction is maintained by a difficulty in being at peace with ourselves when alone (I don’t know if this applies to everyone, but for me, I think it does), then ultimately, there is a search for connection. But because of the stress caused by the fear of facing ourselves, we quickly seek out the easiest pleasures that seem to fulfill that need, like P&M. But that doesn’t mean there’s no connection at all—it’s just that I never learned how to create a strong, stable, and healthy bond, even with myself and other because P&M entered my life too early and too quickly a took the idea of how to create a connection.That said, I do agree with your overall point about the necessity of forming a true, deep connection.In any case, your reflections really warm my heart—feel free to always share them in this thread!
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24 Feb 2025 22:37
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jackthejew
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time2win wrote on 20 Feb 2025 19:40:
I want to cut through all the superficialities and talk tachlis. Why do I turn to P and M? Because I have a crisis of meaning. I feel like my life doesn't really matter. There is a gaping hole deep in my soul, my consciousness that I can't seem to fill. All I can do is dull the gnawing emptiness with P & M. (In theory, it could be with drugs or alcohol, but P is free and more easily accessible and side effects are less noticeable.)
Some background:
The world can roughly be divided into 2 categories of people, the big people who make a real impact and the small people who just kind of well...live and die without really doing anything grand in between.
Nonetheless, despite my best efforts to be big and accomplish something great in life, I feel so, so small. And that is deeply, excruciatingly painful. So I turn to P to numb the pain. Until I can fill the hole in my heart, I will never achieve true sobriety from my addiction. (Not incidentally, this is the root cause of my fallout with frumkeit. I have a hard time believing in a God, or at least relating to a God, who created me to be an absolute nobody.)
This is the first time in a while that I've been on the forum. Just here for a quick haunt. Your well thought out, and deep post definitely made me think. Welcome!
The primary responses on this Holy forum will of course be concerned with both the Mussar and the religious aspect of Kedusha and relationships. I'd like to take a slightly different tack.
Steven Covey's bestselling "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" seems to me to be very on the nose in terms of addressing the feelings you are expressing. To Quote a summary of the book: ( www.oberlo.com/blog/7-habits-of-highly-effective-people-by-stephen-covey-summary)
"During his 25 years of working with successful individuals in business, universities, and relationship settings, Stephen Covey discovered that high-achievers were often plagued with a sense of emptiness. In an attempt to understand why, he read several self-improvement, self-help, and popular psychology books written over the past 200 years. It was here that he noticed a stark historical contrast between two types of success. Before the First World War, success was attributed to ethics of character. This included characteristics such as humility, fidelity, integrity, courage, and justice. However, after the war, there was a shift to what Covey refers to as the “Personality Ethic.” Here, success was attributed as a function of personality, public image, behaviors, and skills. Yet, these were just shallow, quick successes, overlooking the deeper principles of life. Covey argues it’s your character that needs to be cultivated to achieve sustainable success, not your personality. What we are says far more than what we say or do. The “Character Ethic” is based upon a series of principles. Covey claims that these principles are self-evident and endure in most religious, social, and ethical systems. They have universal application. When you value the correct principles, you see reality as it truly is. This is the foundation of his bestselling book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People."
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24 Feb 2025 15:29
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yitzchokm
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It is nice to see you back. I don't think criticizing someone's outfits is going to help you heal. OCD is really tough. If you have a real addiction I don't know whether there is anything aside for the 12 steps which have been proven to be effective. I think efraim@guardyoureyes.com can answer whether you need the 12 steps. After speaking with Efraim you can also speak with Hashem Help Me and design a plan together with him. Wishing you success on your journey.
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24 Feb 2025 13:02
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m111
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hashemyeracheim613 wrote on 29 Oct 2024 02:04:
Hi everyone. There are a couple of points I would like to hit up.
1. Someone suggested that my problem might be depression. I've been to many therapists in my life, and while I've experienced feelings of depression, it was usually chalked up to my inability to deal with my other mental issues. Once I worked on those, the sadness dissipated. That being said, my cynical tendencies are not helping my situation.
2. I had a streak of ninety days recently. I think the idea that helped me the most of anything is a YouTube short. In it, a lady was talking to a drug addict about how to deal with his addiction. She told him that he has to accept to deal with any pain that would result of him being sober, no matter how horrifying. This helped me a lot. When I was extremely stressed and "needed" to let loose, I was able to tell myself that I already knew this was coming, and had accepted it already. This helped me embrace the pain of not giving in. I only messed up once I decided that I didn't want to deal with the pain.
3. I messed up recently. I had a streak from Erev Rosh Hashana until yesterday. I want to try the above-mentioned method again. Wish me luck.
4. Welcome to all new members. I've skimmed a lot of posts, and for many people, it seems that the root cause is not masturbation. I feel comfortable saying that most people on this forum can use a good therapist. If you haven't tried it yet, please do. For those that have tried and it's not working, stay with it. I went to many therapists before I even tasted mild success. It was so worth it once I found the right one.
I found that mindfulness and IFS (Internal Family Systems therapy model (there is a book on how to to do it on your own without a therapist)) can be very helpful without even going to therapy.
Porn and masturbation is actually just a survival tool for the psyche to try to protect itself from painful, yes, sometimes very painful, awareness and emotions.
When we can live with and/or manage the things that the p and m are covering up and trying so hard to smother, then we can instead embrace those powerful negativity aspects in us and find the beauty and real humanity within them.
Sounds utopian? It is, but it works!
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24 Feb 2025 09:37
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yoshi
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Yesterday, I felt really alone despite having my family, my children, and my wife. Not being able to have physical intimacy due to my wife's status sometimes puts me in a state of distress. It makes me feel strange, as if I am a slave to my own needs. I also realize that P&M used to provide a certain kind of comfort, a way to feel good physically, almost like a soothing hug from someone dear to me. This helps me understand the importance of this forum—it allows us to give and receive "hugs" when we need them. Being in contact with others and being able to share openly, without shame, is such an effective method in fighting addiction. So yesterday, I felt lonely, but it didn’t trigger a real urge like before. Just knowing that I would have to write about it honestly on this forum helped calm my desires.
otherwise day 33 clean !!
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24 Feb 2025 07:02
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lionfree
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I haven’t posted in a while, and honestly, I haven’t made much progress—if anything, I think I’ve declined. I tried an online 12-step program, but it didn’t really work for me. The group leaders gave me mixed messages—one told me I had other underlying issues and shouldn’t be in the group, while the other encouraged me to keep attending. That contradiction left me feeling confused and stuck. Lately, I’ve found Guard Your Eyes to be the most helpful resource. Right now, I’m living in an apartment with roommates, and I’m finally starting to find a career path that interests me. I’ve already switched majors in college, and by most measures, things in my life are going well. But I’m still struggling with this habit—pornography and masturbation. I spend about an hour a day in the bathroom, going back and forth between watching, trying to talk myself out of it, and feeling powerless. I’ve started reading the Guard Your Eyes handbook, and it has some good insights so far. I don’t think my issue is purely an addiction—I believe a big part of it is intrusive thoughts. The more I try not to think about porn, the more it’s on my mind. And when I do think about it, it feels like I’m inevitably going to give in. I already have OCD, and when you combine that with pornography, religious guilt, and the pressure to stop, it just makes me feel crazy. I don’t even enjoy it—I do it because it feels like I have to. Sure, there’s a thrill to it, but every time I finish, I feel awful. I know it’s wrong, and I know how much damage it’s caused me. My sister doesn’t want to talk to me anymore because I’ve criticized her outfits. The truth is, I’ve done that because I don’t like the intrusive thoughts they trigger, and it frustrates me. Right now, I feel hopeless. But at the same time, I do believe that I’ll overcome this eventually—I just don’t know how long it will take. I don’t even know how many days it’s been since my first post, but here I am.
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23 Feb 2025 13:15
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parev
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I saw this thing called the 12 steps. Do you guys know what it is and if I could benefit from it?
if you are an addict [and willing to admit it - something that not many on here are able to do]
check out 12 steps [eg SA]
the 12 steps work!
its a way of living a spiritual life
read rabbi tweskys - 12 steps - im jewish!
reach out to Efraim through the chatbot at the bottom right of your screen
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23 Feb 2025 12:47
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yoshi
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First milestone reached: 30 days without M. I think the last time I lasted this long was at the beginning of my marriage. It's amazing how, thanks to this forum, honesty, and faith in God, things start to fall into place on their own. Without minimizing my efforts—every message I've sent proves it—a sort of shift happened in my mind when I truly started coming to this forum and reading messages from people who managed to break free.But there's one thing I notice about myself and others as well: I made a huge deal out of this addiction, believing it was the cause of many of my problems. But that's not true. My problems are still here—when I struggle to study because my mind is filled with a thousand other worries, when I feel anxious about the future, when I feel like I'm not performing well enough and could do more, when I feel useless (something I've seen in others too), when I think I'm wasting too much time on my computer (again, something others have mentioned as well). I used to believe all of this came from my addiction, but in the end, it's all still here. All my anxiety, discomfort, and problems are still present.It's important not to fight the wrong battle. Overcoming and breaking free from M&P won’t completely fix me. But what’s certain is that everything I’ve learned from you, from this site, and from this forum to start overcoming this addiction are tools that can help with many other things.Thank you again! I know that 30 days doesn’t mean I’m completely free from my addiction, but I truly feel like this is just the beginning. Now, I can finally start trying to do things.
So, after this long message, my personal experience tells me that my addiction to P&M took up so much space that it hid many other problems. And in the end, this is just the start of a very long journey.
Otherwise, day 30-31-32 clean!!
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21 Feb 2025 14:26
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optimisticcheetah
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TYH for another clean day. I don't take a single sober day for granted. Before I joined SA I was always motivated to quit because I knew that my acting out was wrong and I was ashamed of my actions. Joining SA and working with a sponsor really opened my eyes to the extent of just how messed up my entire system was when I was consistently using acting out to cope with life and escape without dealing with the normal challenges of life. I was shocked by what a positive impact being clean and sober had on my entire wellbeing, my relationships, and my general productivity. I had always thought that my behavior was just a naughty outlet, not a virus in my operating system that hijacked my ability to just be a normal person.
The sad part is that anyone who is familiar with addiction ( or even compulsive behavior) is that knowledge alone is not enough. So for the last few years not only was I acting out on a consistent basis, I did so in spite of being acutely aware of how damaging it was to me, not to mention the shame guilt, and loneliness it caused.
I am grateful to Hashem for putting me on what feels like a good path. I didn't have an easy day yesterday, but I davened to hashem to give me the strength to deal with some challenges at home and I'm grateful that I did not take any actions of lust, or do anything I'm ashamed of in the last 24 hours. I pray that he will continue to give me the strength to have another good clean day, one day at a time.
Optimistic Cheetah
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21 Feb 2025 14:23
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youknowwho
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time2win wrote on 20 Feb 2025 19:40:
I want to cut through all the superficialities and talk tachlis. Why do I turn to P and M? Because I have a crisis of meaning. I feel like my life doesn't really matter. There is a gaping hole deep in my soul, my consciousness that I can't seem to fill. All I can do is dull the gnawing emptiness with P & M. (In theory, it could be with drugs or alcohol, but P is free and more easily accessible and side effects are less noticeable.)
Until I can fill the hole in my heart, I will never achieve true sobriety from my addiction.
Dear time2win, I want to thank you for your super articulate posts, expressing your feelings of lack of meaning and faith. I relate to so much of what you are going through. Just to further elaborate on what eerie and chaimoigen have written, there is a premise in your words that, if adjusted accordingly, can change the whole game. Is it really true that “Until I can fill the hole in my heart, I will never achieve true sobriety from my addiction”? Some food for thought: If I would enjoy porn and masturbation, if it would actually add joy and happiness to my life, I am at a stage in my life where I would probably just do it. I wanna enjoy life right now, and I eat, sleep, watch a good movie and don’t stress too much about meaning and faith. Too painful. But, here’s the thing. I do not enjoy it. At all. Or else I wouldn’t be here, would I?
If I am hungry, I eat to satiate that hunger. Would I eat something that only makes me hungrier, and sick as a dog afterwards?
Feeling horny and hungry for sexual indulgence? Okay, lets go indulge! But, indulging in all those oh so breathtakingly beautiful images, just leaves me wanting more. More bodies to feast over. More positions. More novelty, more variety. More shock. Leaves me feeling wasted, empty, depleted, frustrated, a desperate hankering, a feeling of hornyness bordering on the brink of insanity. Here I go again with that term, but it leaves me feeling like a rabid, red-eyed racoon from some zombie apocalypse movie. Scratching at the cage, desperate for more, more, more! B’kitzur, a slave.
And I have seen firsthand, how things just continue to spiral and progress, it gets riskier and more dangerous... So, what I’ve discovered is, that life, whether as a meaningless Joe the plumber, or as a cynical skeptic, is still better and more worth living as a sober man. I still live with a lack of meaning and confusion about faith…but I will drill and trill this message into my lust infected brain day by day… Life, whatever that even means, is better without that cumbersome burden weighing down on my shoulders like a load of bricks.
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21 Feb 2025 00:37
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neshomo kedosha
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time2win wrote on 20 Feb 2025 19:40:
Hi Holy Chevra.
This is going to be a long post(s), but I need help. Please share your thoughts.
I want to cut through all the superficialities and talk tachlis. Why do I turn to P and M? Because I have a crisis of meaning. I feel like my life doesn't really matter. There is a gaping hole deep in my soul, my consciousness that I can't seem to fill. All I can do is dull the gnawing emptiness with P & M. (In theory, it could be with drugs or alcohol, but P is free and more easily accessible and side effects are less noticeable.)
Some background:
The world can roughly be divided into 2 categories of people, the big people who make a real impact and the small people who just kind of well...live and die without really doing anything grand in between.
Examples of big people:
Philanthropists, Askanim, Scientists/Inventors who work on impactful technology, Marbitzei Torah (people who find inspiration in Torah and share it with others.) Rabbanim, Mechanchim, Authors, Comedians, Founders of successful non-profits, accomplished professionals (e.g. Doctors who make an impact, Buisness Leaders), Jewish celebrities (e.g. Singers who bring joy to the masses). etc. etc. In essence, people who have a big circle of positive influence.
Examples of small people:
Adam the accountant. Ed the electrician. Joe the engineer. Carl the computer programmer. Me. In essence, people who have a small circle of positive influence.
To elaborate-It's not that my life is totally meaningless. After all, I have a wife and kids who love me and need me. I find meaning in supporting them and helping raise our children. I pay taxes and give some tzedakah (not as much as I wish I could), am a contributor to the economy/productive member of society. I give a smile to my coworkers, the cashiers at the store etc. and try to make the world a little better however I can.
Nonetheless, despite my best efforts to be big and accomplish something great in life, I feel so, so small. And that is deeply, excruciatingly painful. So I turn to P to numb the pain. Until I can fill the hole in my heart, I will never achieve true sobriety from my addiction. (Not incidentally, this is the root cause of my fallout with frumkeit. I have a hard time believing in a God, or at least relating to a God, who created me to be an absolute nobody.)
There are a lot of wise people on this forum. Please share your thoughts. Hope to hear from you soon. With thanks from the bottom of my heart, Time2Win
All the big people making big impacts are esteemed because they help the small people who live their lives.
The Askan is a top jew because he is helping that quiet guy over there who is going through a divorce, the big Maggid Shiur is mamash something special, he's helping regular guys learn Torah. The world famous-singer is world famous because he is working so you should feel more joy.
The poshute guys give the meaning to the influencers actions. The big guys have nothing of their own to give unless they are serving lots of regular people. It's the regular Yid who is living his life, fighting his battles and raising his family who is the center-point that this whole big world is focused on
So who's the tachlis?
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