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26 Dec 2022 04:36
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Vehkam
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Welcome to the club!
“I believe too that cutting Porn out and not masturbation is not a real start, but that’s totally your choice.
Is there more to your sex issues which is why your wife is being more tough? Hard to know because you haven’t shared. Take your time to acclimate - we are here for you!
However I don’t agree with Vekam that you necessarily need a sex addiction therapist based off your 1st post.
You need a real commitment and determination to cut porn and masturbation out, and many therapists can help. Are you ready?
Light up the night tonight!! “
I don’t generally jump to recommend sex addiction therapists for someone that is struggling with pornography. However given that the op is already dealing with conversations regarding divorce I do believe that professional intervention would be the best route to help maintain the marriage. The people at Relief have been very helpful to me in the past in recommending the right person based on the specific circumstances.
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26 Dec 2022 03:52
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Teshuvahguy
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yud909 wrote on 06 Nov 2022 22:26:
Hi All
I would like to share my story with he hope that it will keep me from falling yet again.
I've struggled with pornography and masturbation for as long as I can remember. I naively thought it would end as soon as I got married, it obviously did not. I was in kollel for many years and had my ups and downs, some good months some terrible months. When I went out to work, things pretty much remained the same with ups and downs, mainly with pornography sites but occasionally phone lines as well. I'm sure this sounds cliché but I'm a "regular good guy", what many people call yeshivish. I live in a great community, have a shaychus with my Rav, good friends, chavrusas, loving wife and kids etc. I daven with minyan and learn daily with multiple chavrusas etc.
A few years ago I worked out of town for a few days a week. My life has never been the same. I first visited a massage parlor, then had ladies come to my hotel room and the list goes on but at the risk of being a trigger for myself and others I'll stop there. I no longer work out of town but unfortunately once I was exposed to that, I found out all too easily how everything that's available over there is available at home as well.
Every Yom Kippur I do teshuva, real sincere Teshuva. I cry and beg Hashem for help to stop my addiction. Sometimes I make it past Sukkos other times I don't. But this Yom Kippur was different for me. I felt it was on a whole new level. I stumbled right before Rosh Hashana and I really felt this Yom Kippur with my kabolos and my resolve this would be the end. I made it through Sukkos and had an incredible Simchas Torah and thought maybe just maybe this time would be different.
Alas, it was not so and here I am. I've stumbled 3 times since Sukkos and while I'm not giving up, it is EXTREMELY DEPRESSING. Will this be my fate until the day I die (or get caught) ? A few good weeks and then a few weeks of depravity?
Today is Sunday, my last complete fall was on Thursday. Since then I went to the mikvah, had a beautiful Shabbos, davened, learnt etc, and today I was fighting the urges constantly and flirted with disaster but ultimately didn't succumb (probably would've if I didn't have filters on computer and phone).
I'm not sure what writing all this will accomplish, but I'm at a loss and looking for any chizuk and advice.
Would love to hear from anyone that has stumbled as low as I have and has been clean for long periods of time.
As you may know, I spent 40 years stumbling way lower and more frequently than you! And I have not acted out with anyone for 16 years and I am really working on the p and m and am now at 66 days. You can do this and you will. You have amazing resolve and in the merit of all the strength you give to others with your comments to them, you will do this.
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26 Dec 2022 02:25
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Markz
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Welcome to the club!
I believe too that cutting Porn out and not masturbation is not a real start, but that’s totally your choice.
Is there more to your sex issues which is why your wife is being more tough? Hard to know because you haven’t shared. Take your time to acclimate - we are here for you!
However I don’t agree with Vekam that you necessarily need a sex addiction therapist based off your 1st post.
You need a real commitment and determination to cut porn and masturbation out, and many therapists can help. Are you ready?
Light up the night tonight!!
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26 Dec 2022 02:14
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Vehkam
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welcome. its great that you are excited to work on yourself. I am confused by why you do not desire to work on masturbating? If you are fantisizing it will make it much harder to work on the porn addiction.
Either way, you will find many people here that will welcome you and try to help with your struggle.
Given the amount that you have at stake right now, i would also urge you to consider a sex addiction therapist if that is a possibility.
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23 Dec 2022 03:50
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Funges
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first of all, thank you for giving me this prospective, i hope it will help me, but one thing that it does not help is the addiction, because sometimes this is a big part of it, and you dont have to like a addiction, you just have to be addicted..
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23 Dec 2022 01:50
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Teshuvahguy
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cordnoy wrote on 23 Dec 2022 01:29:
Vehkam wrote on 22 Dec 2022 22:15:
cordnoy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:47:
YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:22:
Big Shaila: So as I had mentioned, we’ve had this family over at our house with the girl I’ve had a “shakla v’tarya” with for awhile.
The girl leaves tonight. We had a shmuze last night etc and been hard getting over her leaving it, managed to not be nichshal last night though with bad vids etc cuz of it.
Her and her sister are at my house right now for 3’ish hours then leaving.
I just finished work and can go back right now saying I gotta light candles b’zman which is true. But I’ll have a solid few hours to sit and shmuze with the girl and I 100% will, bli safeik.
Personaly, I only would avoid wit since it can get me to watch porn.
So should I procrastinate and let the time run out so they’ll leave and we won’t get our last goodbye? Or do I light b’zman and sit by the candles with the girl like we did last night (felt amazing tbh)?
Gotta know asap, make your voices heard!
Some may say in the name of Dov that conquerin' addiction is similar to pikuach nefesh and has those gedarim. There are those who disagree. My opinion is that even Dov's halachos apply only when one is in full blown active recovery, and a serious fall would derail him. Are you in that stage? If not, you have a mitzvah before you, do that, and may God or the mitzvah protect you from the blonde, blue-eyes twins.
if you can go and light candles and then say tehillim in front of the candles for an hour i would do that. otherwise, i would trust your gut and avoid if there is any chance it can get you to watch porn.
It feels real good to be able to pleasantly and respectfully disagree. I don't even feel bad at all that he listened to the majority. The beauty of the forum! Thank the Good Lord!
Beautifully said, Cord! May it always be true. Thanks for your friendship and all that you do. You stick to your principles and sometimes say the stuff that’s hard to hear and that takes courage from which we all benefit!
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23 Dec 2022 01:39
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YeshivaGuy
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cordnoy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:47:
YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:22:
Big Shaila: So as I had mentioned, we’ve had this family over at our house with the girl I’ve had a “shakla v’tarya” with for awhile.
The girl leaves tonight. We had a shmuze last night etc and been hard getting over her leaving it, managed to not be nichshal last night though with bad vids etc cuz of it.
Her and her sister are at my house right now for 3’ish hours then leaving.
I just finished work and can go back right now saying I gotta light candles b’zman which is true. But I’ll have a solid few hours to sit and shmuze with the girl and I 100% will, bli safeik.
Personaly, I only would avoid wit since it can get me to watch porn.
So should I procrastinate and let the time run out so they’ll leave and we won’t get our last goodbye? Or do I light b’zman and sit by the candles with the girl like we did last night (felt amazing tbh)?
Gotta know asap, make your voices heard!
Some may say in the name of Dov that conquerin' addiction is similar to pikuach nefesh and has those gedarim. There are those who disagree. My opinion is that even Dov's halachos apply only when one is in full blown active recovery, and a serious fall would derail him. Are you in that stage? If not, you have a mitzvah before you, do that, and may God or the mitzvah protect you from the blonde, blue-eyes twins.
Thank you so so much for your eitza and perspective.
Always a zechus to hear from you.
For myself I think going would certainly add a lot to this unhealthy relationship.
As far as the conversation about “ addiction/recovery,” I’m not currently working using those leshonos/perspectives though perhaps I should.
And as far as their description, I wish her sister was appealing but mamash not. And twins would be cool
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23 Dec 2022 01:29
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cordnoy
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Vehkam wrote on 22 Dec 2022 22:15:
cordnoy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:47:
YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:22:
Big Shaila: So as I had mentioned, we’ve had this family over at our house with the girl I’ve had a “shakla v’tarya” with for awhile.
The girl leaves tonight. We had a shmuze last night etc and been hard getting over her leaving it, managed to not be nichshal last night though with bad vids etc cuz of it.
Her and her sister are at my house right now for 3’ish hours then leaving.
I just finished work and can go back right now saying I gotta light candles b’zman which is true. But I’ll have a solid few hours to sit and shmuze with the girl and I 100% will, bli safeik.
Personaly, I only would avoid wit since it can get me to watch porn.
So should I procrastinate and let the time run out so they’ll leave and we won’t get our last goodbye? Or do I light b’zman and sit by the candles with the girl like we did last night (felt amazing tbh)?
Gotta know asap, make your voices heard!
Some may say in the name of Dov that conquerin' addiction is similar to pikuach nefesh and has those gedarim. There are those who disagree. My opinion is that even Dov's halachos apply only when one is in full blown active recovery, and a serious fall would derail him. Are you in that stage? If not, you have a mitzvah before you, do that, and may God or the mitzvah protect you from the blonde, blue-eyes twins.
if you can go and light candles and then say tehillim in front of the candles for an hour i would do that. otherwise, i would trust your gut and avoid if there is any chance it can get you to watch porn.
It feels real good to be able to pleasantly and respectfully disagree. I don't even feel bad at all that he listened to the majority. The beauty of the forum! Thank the Good Lord!
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22 Dec 2022 22:15
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Vehkam
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cordnoy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:47:
YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:22:
Big Shaila: So as I had mentioned, we’ve had this family over at our house with the girl I’ve had a “shakla v’tarya” with for awhile.
The girl leaves tonight. We had a shmuze last night etc and been hard getting over her leaving it, managed to not be nichshal last night though with bad vids etc cuz of it.
Her and her sister are at my house right now for 3’ish hours then leaving.
I just finished work and can go back right now saying I gotta light candles b’zman which is true. But I’ll have a solid few hours to sit and shmuze with the girl and I 100% will, bli safeik.
Personaly, I only would avoid wit since it can get me to watch porn.
So should I procrastinate and let the time run out so they’ll leave and we won’t get our last goodbye? Or do I light b’zman and sit by the candles with the girl like we did last night (felt amazing tbh)?
Gotta know asap, make your voices heard!
Some may say in the name of Dov that conquerin' addiction is similar to pikuach nefesh and has those gedarim. There are those who disagree. My opinion is that even Dov's halachos apply only when one is in full blown active recovery, and a serious fall would derail him. Are you in that stage? If not, you have a mitzvah before you, do that, and may God or the mitzvah protect you from the blonde, blue-eyes twins.
if you can go and light candles and then say tehillim in front of the candles for an hour i would do that. otherwise, i would trust your gut and avoid if there is any chance it can get you to watch porn.
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22 Dec 2022 21:47
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cordnoy
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YeshivaGuy wrote on 22 Dec 2022 21:22:
Big Shaila: So as I had mentioned, we’ve had this family over at our house with the girl I’ve had a “shakla v’tarya” with for awhile.
The girl leaves tonight. We had a shmuze last night etc and been hard getting over her leaving it, managed to not be nichshal last night though with bad vids etc cuz of it.
Her and her sister are at my house right now for 3’ish hours then leaving.
I just finished work and can go back right now saying I gotta light candles b’zman which is true. But I’ll have a solid few hours to sit and shmuze with the girl and I 100% will, bli safeik.
Personaly, I only would avoid wit since it can get me to watch porn.
So should I procrastinate and let the time run out so they’ll leave and we won’t get our last goodbye? Or do I light b’zman and sit by the candles with the girl like we did last night (felt amazing tbh)?
Gotta know asap, make your voices heard!
Some may say in the name of Dov that conquerin' addiction is similar to pikuach nefesh and has those gedarim. There are those who disagree. My opinion is that even Dov's halachos apply only when one is in full blown active recovery, and a serious fall would derail him. Are you in that stage? If not, you have a mitzvah before you, do that, and may God or the mitzvah protect you from the blonde, blue-eyes twins.
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22 Dec 2022 13:11
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Vehkam
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BitzlBitzl wrote on 22 Dec 2022 08:58:
I apologize for the catchy title.
I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook.
The question is posed as follows:
Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?
While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.
########################################################################
My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc..
PS.
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.
what jtj said...
also
hashem gave us our challenges to help us grow. the greater the challenge, the greater the opportunity for growth.
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22 Dec 2022 10:51
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jackthejew
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BitzlBitzl wrote on 22 Dec 2022 08:58:
I apologize for the catchy title.
I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook.
The question is posed as follows:
Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?
While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.
########################################################################
My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc..
PS.
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.
This is a theological question, and in my opinion, this isn't really what GYE is made for. However, to give an answer as I understand it:
G-d is infintely smarter than anyone else can ever be. If something was created, that is because it is the ultimate expression of what was best for the world. (Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan makes this point very well in his book: If You Were G-d)
Humans are created in the form of G-d, what that means is that all aspects of our physical existence offer parralels to our relationship with and appreciation of G-d.
The sexual drive is no different. The connection and closeness we are meant to enjoy with our wives climaxes with the apex of the sexual connection, as stated in Genesis (2, 24) "Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Becoming one is a unique concept of closeness and giving that must be done right. I do not "become one" with a steak that I eat. I consume it, and nothing remains of it.
For 2 entities to join to become something greater requires that an action not just of taking for pleasure, but an act born of a devotion and a desire to give. If I eat a steak to serve G-d and appreciate the beauty of his creation and the fact that there is incredible flavor in all each bite, and at the same time that the sustenance from the proteins miraculously gives me the strength to carry in my service of G-d, that steak now becomes a vehicle towards closeness to G-d, and in the grand scheme of things, can now be viewed as a significant contributing factor having worked ith me to bring awareness of G-d to me and the world. (Not saying I've ever had this perfect of a mindset when eating steak, just gving an exmple)
Closeness to G-d is the ultimate pleasure, since G-d himself is the source of all goodness, therefore, the sexual act is a prralel of drawing close to the apex point of closeness and the ultimate giving. G-d is the ultimate giver, and therefore man by paralleling that ultimate act of giving (Just as G-d "gave forth of himself" in creating man, [See Genesis 2,7] so too man, in the ultimate context of love and connection brings forth new life)
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22 Dec 2022 08:58
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BitzlBitzl
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I apologize for the catchy title.
I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook.
The question is posed as follows:
Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?
While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.
########################################################################
My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc..
PS.
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.
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22 Dec 2022 06:09
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Human being
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bezalel wrote on 20 Dec 2022 09:59:
I admit I am out of control, and this force is far greater than me.
I am an atheist, I don't follow most Jewish traditions, and I am raising my kids secular as well. I feel I am worse off for this. My community will never quite be as tightly knit as those who go to Beit Knesset regularly. I don't have clear guidelines and rules for the road. I am on my own in a void, and failing.
This is my first day trying something new to get me off of my addictions. Yesterday, I asked another addict online (in an inappropriate context) if he was aware of his addiction. He asked me what I wanted to see next, in a testament to being completely unaware of what I was saying! I realized I am not him. I have capacity for thought and awareness, I am attentive and learned, and I was lucky enough to grow up religious. This "frum" site does not deter me.
I really hope this community will be conducive to getting off my addiction and getting my life back. (Even that can be contested. I don't remember a time without porn). I hope to find my place, even as somewhat of an outsider.
Thank you for joining. We are all here no matter who you are or what background you come from. Looking forward to hearing more from you, keep posting, we are all reading.
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21 Dec 2022 03:55
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Human being
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116. Thank you Hashem. Ever since ive been -de-addicted- life has been so much more pleasant, and so much more authentic.
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