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TOPIC: Sex for pleasure 321 Views

Sex for pleasure 22 Dec 2022 08:58 #389890

  • BitzlBitzl
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I apologize for the catchy title.

I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook. 

The question is posed as follows:

Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?

While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.

########################################################################

My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc.. 


PS. 
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.

Re: Sex for pleasure 22 Dec 2022 10:51 #389893

  • jackthejew
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BitzlBitzl wrote on 22 Dec 2022 08:58:

I apologize for the catchy title.

I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook. 

The question is posed as follows:

Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?

While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.

########################################################################

My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc.. 


PS. 
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.


This is a theological question, and in my opinion, this isn't really what GYE is made for. However, to give an answer as I understand it:
G-d is infintely smarter than anyone else can ever be. If something was created, that is because it is the ultimate expression of what was best for the world. (Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan makes this point very well in his book: If You Were G-d)
Humans are created in the form of G-d, what that means is that all aspects of our physical existence offer parralels to our relationship with and appreciation of G-d.
The sexual drive is no different. The connection and closeness we are meant to enjoy with our wives climaxes with the apex of the sexual connection, as stated in Genesis (2, 24) "Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."  Becoming one is a unique concept of closeness and giving that must be done right. I do not "become one" with a steak that I eat. I consume it, and nothing remains of it.
For 2 entities to join to become something greater requires that an action not just of taking for pleasure, but an act born of a devotion and a desire to give. If I eat a steak to serve G-d and appreciate the beauty of his creation and the fact that there is incredible flavor in all each bite, and at the same time that the sustenance from the proteins miraculously gives me the strength to carry in my service of G-d, that steak now becomes a vehicle towards closeness to G-d, and in the grand scheme of things, can now be viewed as a significant contributing factor having worked ith me to bring awareness of G-d to me and the world. (Not saying I've ever had this perfect of a mindset when eating steak, just gving an exmple)
Closeness to G-d is the ultimate pleasure, since G-d himself is the source of all goodness, therefore, the sexual act is a prralel of drawing close to the apex point of closeness and the ultimate giving. G-d is the ultimate giver, and therefore man by paralleling that ultimate act of giving (Just as G-d "gave forth of himself" in creating man, [See Genesis 2,7] so too man, in the ultimate context of love and connection brings forth new life)
Off the forum for now.
My Thread (Not for inspiration, but for random bits and pieces of my journey, as well as the inspiring responses of others: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/375514-Enough-is-Enough
jackthejewgye@gmail.com
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.

Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet! ~ Groucho Marx
Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable.-Voltaire
You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.- Abraham Lincoln
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.- Yogi Berra
"I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." ~ Calvin

Re: Sex for pleasure 22 Dec 2022 11:40 #389895

  • jackthejew
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The idea that pleasure is a problem is also much more based in Christianity than Judaism. From Rabbi Noach Weinberg Z'L: Human beings are pleasure seekers. The point of life is to have the best time, and physical pleasure is the lowest of them all. So if you'd like to spend your whole life chasing physical pleasure, you can do it. But why do that to yourself when you can experience the more sublime pleasure available through recongnition and service of G-d.
(In Mesillat Yesharim [from Dafyomireview.com] )
Behold, what our sages, of blessed memory, have taught us is that man was created solely to delight in G-d and to derive pleasure in the radiance of the Shechina (divine presence). For this is the true delight and the greatest pleasure that can possibly exist. The place of this pleasure is, in truth, in Olam Haba (the World to Come). For it was created expressly for this purpose.והנה מה שהורונו חכמינו זכרונם לברכה הוא, שהאדם לא נברא אלא להתענג על ה' ולהנות מזיו שכינתו שזהו התענוג האמיתי והעידון הגדול מכל העידונים שיכולים להמצא. ומקום העידון הזה באמת הוא העולם הבא, כי הוא הנברא בהכנה המצטרכת לדבר הזה.


CS - "the place of this pleasure is, in truth, in the afterlife" - he added the term "in truth" to indicate that only in the afterlife can this pleasure be attained completely, in true perfection, without any deficiency... But this light shines also on a man in this world, according to the degree of clinging to G-d he attains through his service in Torah and mitzvot and according to his standing up to trials.

After I posted, I just saw this in an old CDC briefing (whatever): life is a sexually transmitted condition which is 100% fatal.
Off the forum for now.
My Thread (Not for inspiration, but for random bits and pieces of my journey, as well as the inspiring responses of others: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/375514-Enough-is-Enough
jackthejewgye@gmail.com
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.

Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet! ~ Groucho Marx
Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable.-Voltaire
You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.- Abraham Lincoln
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.- Yogi Berra
"I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." ~ Calvin
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2022 12:11 by jackthejew.

Re: Sex for pleasure 22 Dec 2022 13:11 #389899

  • vehkam
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BitzlBitzl wrote on 22 Dec 2022 08:58:

I apologize for the catchy title.

I have a thought experiment I sometimes put forth with friends or fellow conversationalists. I believe answering sincerely has potential to shed light on our core values and philosophical outlook. 

The question is posed as follows:

Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?

While I know this question flies in the face of traditional Judaism, the one religion that seeks to incorporate our nature into a holy life-style, I still believe there may be something to this. Take a moment to think about how you would answer. What do you think humans, even Jews, would be better off if it didn’t exist at all? Share your thoughts.

########################################################################

My answer, as you may have guessed from the title, is our need and capacity to have sex for pleasure. I believe humans would be a better species, more able to focus on our divine pursuits, less corrupted and confused in a tango of status and power games, were we to preserve copulation for the occasional child-bearing context, say 5-10 times in a lifetime. Given where I am today, addicted and frustrated with how much of my mental capacity is fixated on this one aspect of my existence, I am confident in making the trade-off. I would gladly give up on sex drive and all related creative outlets for the pragmatic betterment of mankind through asexual ambitions, such as good, truth, nature’s beauty, etc.. 


PS. 
I have another answer that comes from deeper down, but it's even more extreme than the one I’ve shared here.



what jtj said...
also
hashem gave us our challenges to help us grow.  the greater the challenge, the greater the opportunity for growth.
vehkam7@gmail.com

guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/375452-Work-in-progress

The Battle of the Generation by Hillel S. has been a huge help for me.  Message me to find out how you can receive a free copy.



some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2022 13:13 by vehkam.

Re: Sex for pleasure 22 Dec 2022 21:08 #389918

BitzlBitzl wrote on 22 Dec 2022 08:58:

Were we humans capable of doing away with only one element of our nature, something that inherently makes us human, which behavior would you shed?


The tendency to be stuck in the past and worry about the future - while allowing the present to slip away.
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.
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