Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 22 Dec 2022 11:42:

Hi just one point, I am not sure which post is being referred to here, I just think that if someone has implied something, the actual situation remains unclear. Thus a person is required to give the benefit of the doubt before criticizing, because if you haven't heard the situation, one of 2 things will likely happen

1. If you misunderstood the situation based on your assumption, you have offended the person and have caused a dispute that will be difficult to fix
2. Your assumption is correct (which I think is unlikely for people who are trying to work on themselves and are being this honest, i.e  they really do not want to molest their own child) and the person will become embarrassed and deny it sending them further into their own abyss of self destructive thought

Please encourage these vital shares. The opposite of addiction is honestly connecting to others and not keeping these secrets from others. We can all attest to the destruction it causes. We have been drowning, suffocating in our dark desires, we need to bring them to the light where we can finally breathe fresh air with others who are similar. The worst is when others who are similar are pushing our heads down back into those murky waters and kill us. The issue is that this is all a part of the sickness of the addiction, the inadequacy can cause us to despise those who are deeper in the addiction, and instead of heartfully helping by listening and saving them from the deeper whirlpool of loneliness, we don't listen and tell them to get "fixed" this is a lack of communication and thus a lack of recovery. 

What is the opposite?

1. Being inquisitive
2. Listening and thanking the other person for sharing
3. Then sharing yourself
4. Then discussing respectfully a solution with both parties involved.

I hope this makes some sense.

Unfortunately the forum is limited in this way but we have to work with what we've got
The program SA does provide this though

All the best!

I'm new on this and new in My addiction but I I can't figure out this app I want to know when I I am struggling and I need support or do I find it on this app

I started this 3 years ago and stopped for reasons I don’t remember. I was a in bad place then. B”H I’m in a good place now. I think it will be helpful for myself to tell my story and maybe others can gain from it too. I’m going to try to be honest and open with my story, but might need to leave out some details to protect my anonymity and not to be triggering.
I left off when I was 17. I want to emphasize how addicted to porn and masturbation I became at that point. Spending hours and hours night after night. Because of my mother’s health issues I had very little oversight so there was no one to stop me. There was another detail I left out … As I mentioned my attraction to other guys started in my early teens at that time was attracted to boys around my age… as I got older I remained attracted to boys in their early teens. By the time I was 17-18 I had a tremendous amount of shame around the masturbation, ssa and attraction to teens.

After high school I went to eretz Yisroel to learn. I ended up staying for 2 years. It was an interesting period for me. First of all I was separated me from my mother. Although my mother was dependent on me all those years she managed to get by without me. I grew so much in ruchanius during that time. I got a little bit in to chassddius at that time and definitely “frummed out”.  I had a rebbi I became close to. I told him about my childhood and my mother, but not my ssa or porn and masturbation addiction. He gave me advice that mamash saved my life… he told me when I return to America whatever I do don’t live with my mother, otherwise I will not have a life on my own.
Regarding my sexual issues it was interesting… I was away from porn (it was before smart phones). There were some guys in yeshviah I was attracted to and being in a dorm with them was difficult. I definitely tried to stop masturbating for periods of time, but never lasted very long. There is some more I would like to share from that time period, but I’m going to stop for now.

I started this 3 years ago and stopped for reasons I don’t remember. I was a in bad place then. B”H I’m in a good place now. I think it will be helpful for myself to tell my story and maybe others can gain from it too. I’m going to try to be honest and open with my story, but might need to leave out some details to protect my anonymity and not to be triggering.
I left off when I was 17. I want to emphasize how addicted to porn and masturbation I became at that point. Spending hours and hours night after night. Because of my mother’s health issues I had very little oversight so there was no one to stop me. There was another detail I left out … As I mentioned my attraction to other guys started in my early teens at that time was attracted to boys around my age… as I got older I remained attracted to boys in their early teens. By the time I was 17-18 I had a tremendous amount of shame around the masturbation, ssa and attraction to teens.

After high school I went to eretz Yisroel to learn. I ended up staying for 2 years. It was an interesting period for me. First of all I was separated me from my mother. Although my mother was dependent on me all those years she managed to get by without me. I grew so much in ruchanius during that time. I got a little bit in to chassddius at that time and definitely “frummed out”.  I had a rebbi I became close to. I told him about my childhood and my mother, but not my ssa or porn and masturbation addiction. He gave me advice that mamash saved my life… he told me when I return to America whatever I do don’t live with my mother, otherwise I will not have a life on my own.
Regarding my sexual issues it was interesting… I was away from porn (it was before smart phones). There were some guys in yeshviah I was attracted to and being in a dorm with them was difficult. I definitely tried to stop masturbating for periods of time, but never lasted very long. There is some more I would like to share from that time period, but I’m going to stop for now.

831007 - Characteristics of Successful Changers
As I said earlier I'm trying to track down past lights , now with HaKadosh Baruchs help and due to His mercy I'm able to overcome easier and faster my addictive thogths. The first step to reach that was to start working on my self steem, now is easier for me to recognize the gifts and tools HaShems has given me to fight against my own YH. Here are some of them (I selected them using the work sheet):

• Persevering
• Thankful
• Prayerful
• Creative
• Anchored
• Reliable
• Mature
• Bright
• Orderly
• Perceptive

With some of them YH used to punish me when I backed off. Now I embrace them for my own good.

doingtshuva wrote on 29 Dec 2022 22:51:

Life's like super Mario bros. If there's nothing that can get you out, there's no point in the game. 

Parshas Vayigash:

Yaakov Avinu comes down to Mitzrayim to greet Yosef, his Beloved son. Yosef hugs him, but Yaakov does not hug him back!
Why?! Rashi answers: He was saying Krias Shema.
The famous question is though, if it was Zman Krias Shema, Yosef should be the same as Yaakov. either both should say Krias Shema or both should hug each other?!
The Sfas Emes (according to how I understand it, and with my own flavour!) gives a beautiful explanation: it was not Zman Krias Shema at all, but the excitement that they can come back together, father and son! after 22 years! Was cause to immediately "scream" out the clarity that Hakadosh Baruch Hu is good, and gives reward to those who do his Mitzvos, and that everything that happens in the world is all Him Himself!! The best way to do that is by saying Krias Shema!
But why didn't Yosef?!
Says the Sfas Emes: Yosef lived in Mitzrayim for 22 years, he was in the darkest, most impure place in the world. He was thrown out by his own family, essentially cast out of Klall Yisroel by the Shvatim. Was thrown in prison. Became the most powerful person in Egyptian culture in that time!....... Through all those different kinds of Nisyonos, Yosef Hatzadik had to develop his Avodah in a much more Pnimiyus'dik way. not of Blatant Avodah, but doing the regular thing like everyone else, but with Kedusha, with depth, with Pnimiyus.
Yosef Hatzadik's Krias Shmah was a deep, silent clarity. no need to express that in words of a Krias Shmah. 
Yaakov was never FORCED to develop that silent depth like Yosef was, therefore he needed to literally SAY Krias Shemah!

For Us:
What should we do with a ditch?
Here are the options: 1. Fill it in, 2. Put water inside and use it as a well, 3.Use it to build the foundation of a tall building.
We have our challenges, and we are living these double lives of an Ehrliche Yid on one hand and loser/Self-centered/addict in private. We must realize that this Nisayon CAN be an impetus to developing a new area that people who don't have our challenge don't have the OPPORTUNITY to develop!!
We have the ability to develop our Self-control, our Self-less-ness, our fire for Avodas Hashem through the Koach Hatayva that we have seen express itself in us!! (others would just be "parve")!!!
Even the "Double life" factor can be used for good! to live a deep, yet silent Toradik life without anyone ever knowing whats really in our hearts!! 

May we be Zochehto realize that our "failures" (and all that comes with them) can bring us (like Yosef Hatzadik) to a much stronger and more real relationship with Hakadosh Baruch Hu!!  

I am a simple addict.
With the years and with the people I spoke, I found out that almost everybody has its struggles.
Some just manage to hide it very well. 

Teshuvahguy wrote on 29 Dec 2022 20:02:

I never went to SA, so I'm not going to comment on that. But ever thought about going/back to therapy? You can discuss with a therapist if the 12 steps will be beneficial for you or not.

So, as many of you know, I no longer act out with other people but before 2007 I was unable to control myself and had risky sex with risky strangers in risky places every single day. I wanted to stop but I couldn’t. Then I know I was an addict. 

Today, I no longer act out with men and I have not viewed porn or masturbated for 70 days. However, sex is always on my mind. It dominates me when I am outside my home. I am always looking for who is there and trying to see as much of them as I can. I sexualize all attractive men. So I realize that even though I am not physically acting out, mentally, I seem to still be obsessed with sex…wanting it, fighting the urges, getting exhausted from fighting the urges to look (or worse). It literally makes me tired and makes it hard to focus on just enjoying other parts of life. 

Am I an addict? Do I need SA? Would I benefit from it, given the circumstances? Could I feel safe being honest (about the desire for men) since I would not want to be outed in my community? Please help me understand if this is a good tool for me. 

I was lookin' for somethin' in the archives, but instead I found this beauty from over ten years ago:

Well, I'm not quite ready to click my heels and return to Kansas with this new outlook. But I've realized that it's neither the lust nor the love that I'm mourning.

This is very very serious and very very dark in my consciousness right now, but I'm going to spill it out even though the thought's not fully formed.

You see, I'm not missing the lust... as much as I'm
MISSING THE VESSEL THAT I USED TO STORE THAT LUST.

THE VESSEL WITH ELABORATE PASSAGES TO KEEP THE POISON AWAY FROM MY HEART, WHILE GIVING THE LUST A WARM FUZZY PLACE TO LIFE.

THE VESSEL THAT CRADLED MY HEART AND KEPT IT SAFE FROM ALL THE SHMUTZ AND DEPRESSION AND DEGRADATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT MY LUST DEMANDED.

THE VESSEL THAT I HAD HAND-CRAFTED SO PAINSTAKINGLY OVER SO MANY YEARS, SO THAT (YOU MIGHT RECALL) THE BALANCE OF 98% AND 2% SHMUTZ WAS CAREFULLY MAINTAINED.

THE VESSEL THAT I MADE OUT OF BLOOD, SWEAT, TEARS AND AT GREAT COST TO OTHER PARTS OF MY LIFE. With a passageway for my spouse, another for the kids, a safe corner for my fantasies, a containment chamber for my outrageousness, and a nook and cranny carved perfectly for every need as it arose over many years.

THE VESSEL THAT DEFINED MY SELF-VIEW OF SEXUALITY, MASCULINITY, WORTH, AND MORE.

I've been having this dream that I was on a desert island for years. Rescuers came (maybe a tour of the two shuls??). I wanted to take home the beautiful bed I had carved out of stone and inlaid with jewels. It fit me perfectly, it took years of my life to finish, etc. But they couldn't bring it on the boat. I had to leave it behind to get home. I missed my bed, the work of my hands and my heart and everything.

So, I think I'm not really as addicted to the lusting itself as I am to the house of cards I constructed to live with my lust. If I don't lust, then I don't need a cloak anymore called gay, or special, or master juggler, or wow-what-u-do-4-Hashem, or well-hung, or good in bed, or anything like that. I don't need a cloak at all. I just need to show up as me.

Giving up that container that held the lust is work that I'm now contemplating on a level deep enough to scare the pants off me. (And I don't mean in preparation for acting out, you know.)

Okay, is THAT dark enough for you? Because I think I have to stop typing a cry for a coupla minutes. Lemme know what you read in this that I might continue working on, once the tears dry. Thanks.

Hi! I thought at first that you were writing my story, I'm pretty new here myself, 30+, maggid shiur, baal tefilla, etc. Welcome to the family! We all care for you, we want to hear from you, so keep posting! I see you are on the way to become a posek, but don't pasken just yet that you're an addict. And I don't think there's such a thing as inborn addiction, there's inborn taaveh, there's inborn urge, desire. One thing I'm sure of is that you are NOT alone! there are many just like you, and there are people that have been exactly in the same spot that you are and became much better. Feel free to reach out by PM or email me at 1gimpelovitz@gmail.com. You can take back your life! Stick around here, there are many amazing things to learn here on the forum and many tools available to help you soar. 
About your Yeshiva computer, I had the same issue...In my case it belonged to one of the staff members, he allowed anyone to use it and left it in the office, and he couldn't understand why it needed a filter, since only staff members had the password to get into the computer. I had no way of explaining it. But boy did it need a filter, I probably fell on that device more than on any other. But then another rebbe, who hardly ever used it, noticed that it didn't have a filter. And he insisted that the owner put a filter, claiming that sometimes the boys might be able to get on to the computer. Why did that rebbe have the power to insist and get it done, while I didn't? Because I was guilty, and I felt that if I would push too hard I would become a suspect. But the other rebbe, he had nothing to hide, so he insisted that it be filtered and he got his way. In yiddish there's a saying "oifen ganav brent de hittel". So what did I learn? That I really could have insisted, and nobody would have known. I don't know if that works for you, but maybe, just maybe you can insist?
I also wondered if I should leave my job, because I'm not enough ehrlich, but I learned here not to think that way. Keep in touch, my friend! And keep trucking!

m111 wrote on 27 Dec 2022 23:47:

Welcome to the fight!

You are not alone by any stretch of the imagination, and you've taken the first step in this battle by recognizing the problem and committing to fight it. 

If I may, I don't think anyone-INCLUDING YOURSELF-has an inborn "addiction." Many people have an inborn DESIRE for this filth, which in turn creates an addiction. But don't think of yourself as a "natural addict." What you are is a natural fighter.

A natural fighter in the sense that despite struggling with this monster for as long as you have, you haven't thrown in the towel, and you've just taken one of the biggest steps yet. It's not going to be easy. There'll be tough spots, and it's not going to change overnight. But we-and more importantly, the Ribono Shel Olam-are here for you every step of the way.

Welcome to GYE, my friend. 

FWF

I am over 30 years old married with children and successful maggid shiur in a Yeshiva Gedolah, Baal Tefila, good speaker on the way to becoming a posek, in short, on the outside considered successful.
I have been struggling with addiction of p+m since I'm seven years old, triggered from the ever slightest exposure, had ups and downs.
Recently I've realized that at the core I'm an addict.
I don't know why but I feel like I need to make this introduction/confession on this forum, perhaps for the need of social support, and not feeling lonely in this journey.
Am I alone, or is my inborn addiction normal just like by other people?
One final question, the Yeshiva I'm in has a weak internet filter on their computers, I almost feel like quitting (and being left without a job) because of the problems this is making for me.
What shall I do?

I have a feeling this is going to be a long post and I thank everyone who will bother to read it all, as I have no other outlet for this terrible pain and I can't hold it in anymore. And the struggle with p*rn and mast is made exponentially harder due to all this emotional pain. My home life growing up was very hard. I was the youngest in the family (there were only 2 children, but I was the youngest person in the home) and I thought the behaviors that happened in my house were normal. Maybe if one of my parents had been ok, they would have balanced out the other and counteracted the damage, but both my parents were mentally unhealthy (my mom was a narcissist, which I didn't really understand until I was in my 50s; and my dad was a weak man, chosen by my mother because of his weakness and manipulability, and he was often depressed. He may have actually been on the autism spectrum -- Asperger's? --  had they diagnosed those things back in the middle of the last century). My older sister was also mentally ill. When I was young, she had an eating disorder and, I later found out, she had Borderline Personality Disorder which made her not only sick, but mean, and I was a frequent target of her meanness. So basically, I had no protection at home and no one sane there to clue me in that the stuff going on in the house was not happening in all the other houses, as well. 

So my mom was a very strong and manipulative person, but she was also very pretty and charming, and I loved her very much...so much that I never realized how she was setting me up to fail. My mother set both her children up to fail as she, unlike most parents, could not bear the idea of her children doing better in life than she did. Also, as a narcissist, she was grooming us to always circle her, vying for her attention and ready to serve her needs. She basically hobbled her children. And my dad was a frustrated angry man who did not know how to relate to me so he just didn't in any positive way. I got yelled at and stuff but not a lot of love from him (he didn't know how to express it) and no blueprint from him how to be a boy and grow into a healthy man. I'm sure that is how I ended up homosexual. The women in my life acted so superior to me (I truly believe my mother did not like men as people, and she and my sister treated my maleness as if it were some kind of disease. On top of that I was artistic and not athletic, so it was already hard for me in public school to fit in, but the dynamic in my home turned me into someone trying to be on the winning side (the females were the winners) and so I was pretty "faggy"* and was mercilessly teased. I was called faggot* long before I knew what it meant. 

So I believed that women were both scary and way too good for the likes of me, and with my dad being who he is, I was starved for any kind of male bonding or affection, and I certainly did not have any male friends because I was such a misfit loser -- though I possessed extraordinary musical talent, which only made my hope for a normal childhood even dimmer. As a preteen, I began to sexualize my craving for male love, affection, protection, and acceptance and then, like I stated in my original post, I happened to look a little too hungrily at a man on the street (I was all of 14) and the next thing I knew I was in his bed. He was 33. Yes, it was his fault. Yes, it was statutory rape. But that said, I looked at HIM. I picked HIM. I wanted HIM. So how could it be his fault? He gave me alcohol and porn and sex and I was an addict for the next 40 years (see original post). My emotional connection to porn and masturbation as a self-medication is extremely strong and that is why I still struggle so hard today. I no longer have sex with men so porn and mast was my only outlet. 

10 years ago. my 23-year-old daughter died suddenly. I'm pretty sure I have never actually dealt with her death, and I have just plodded along trying to cope with it. It haunts me. I'm positive I have PTSD from it. I sometimes get waves of nausea from the anxiety attacks when I think of her. All the memories make me sad. I could have been a better father. I was a mess much of the time, but I adored my children in a way my father never loved me and they knew it. My relationship with my parents in later years (once I finally realized the damage they had done) was strained. The atmosphere with them was toxic and I had to protect my own mental health...but I made sure my children had their grandparents. My sister and I have never been friends. She is still sick and mean and I cannot handle that. My mother died 5 months ago. and my only living child, a 40-year-old son, has not spoken to me since the day she died, because now my sister, his aunt, is all alone and I am a terrible person for not rushing in to fill the hole in her life now that her mother is gone. For 15 years, I have explained to him over and over how hard it is for me and how I had to protect myself mentally from them, and that is why I did what I was able to do but I couldn't do more...and he ALWAYS said he understood, and supported me. He got it. Until he didn't. And now, I have lost my other child to my mean sister. He has not contacted me, he has blocked my phone number so I cannot contact him. 

This pain of all this loss is making my struggle with porn and masturbation so much harder. How many losses can I take? I lost my manhood to homosexuality. I lost my first marriage because I was still acting out with men and my first wife didn't like that (surprise, surprise, but I COULD NOT STOP). I lost my daughter to death, and I now lost my son to the darkest side of my own family. My mother and sister made me believe from very young childhood that women don't like men and especially not their private parts. So I turned to men who definitely liked my private part. But I still have this notion of women in my head and it makes it so emotionally scary to have relations with a woman that I don't even try. My wife knows all about my past and she does not push me but I know I am cheating her and I am cheating myself. I feel shame about my penis and I feel she must think it is disgusting (even though she says the opposite -- these paradigms die hard). I'm stuck and frustrated. I can't go to a non-frum therapist because they would tell me I'm gay and I should embrace it. That's how my first marriage ended. I can't tell a frum therapist because I'd be way too afraid somehow my horrible story would get into the community and my poor wife would be a laughingstock and we would have to move. 

So this is why I struggle so much and feel so sad. I am trying to understand what Hashem wants from me with all this baggage. Thank you all for reading (if you bothered to, and if you didn't I certainly understand). P.S. If, somehow, anyone realizes who I am by the details here, please don't out me. I can't take any more trauma. I'm too old to start again. Thank you. 

* This is not language I personally use. It is necessary to convey the truth of my history but I do not personally use this kind of derogatory language about other people of any kind.