David/Rage wrote on 11 Mar 2011 16:29:


Why?

OK Rage let's assume that you are right, for now. How do you do this flaking thing on the shelf? Give me the tools, not the jargon. thanks.

Truth is Rage I agree.

Once I'm fighting whether it's for 5 minutes or forever I'm probably going to lose. Because if I'M FIGHTING, that means I'm putting MY will against the YH, and I don't stand a chance.

I need to remember Step 1 & 2 (which is really as far as I've gotten in the 12 steps). I can't beat this addiction, but Hashem can.

Wow!!
Didn't know I would cause such a storm of emotions. Thanks Kedusha for taking some of the brunt of it.
I will try to explain. I used to think exactly like you. What's the point? It's an Aveira - and a pretty severe one -  so instead of inspiration, I just got depressed. BUT, that was before coming to the understanding that I now have. Here's how I see it.

For whatever reason, we find ourselves seriously addicted to lusting. It may have started as our fault, it may not. To me, it's irrelevant. Bottom line is, we're hooked. So now what? In order to succeed at changing the status quo, there must be a plan of action. Just as my 8 year old daughter can't just stop sucking her fingers one day because she decided to, so too we can't either. True, sucking fingers is not destroying potential neshomas like Zera Levatala is. But the way I see it is, that it doesn't matter how deadly the sin is. If we want to change a behavior pattern, we must go through the process - with its ups, and downs.
I constantly talk to myself about focus. When fighting a battle, we must stay focused on the war even as we fight the battle. Of course, it is never mutar to M........ We must fight every battle as if our lives depended on it. But when we fall, if we fall, we must stay focused on the end prize. The true result. Sobriety.
When the American Generals were sending tens of thousands of troops out onto the shores of Normandy during WWII, and watching them drop like flies, what do you think they were thinking. "Gee, we have plenty of soldiers. Let's kill off a few thousand, and we still have more to go!!" Of course not!!! They tried to protect as many of their men as they could. But even as they saw them fall they thought to themselves, "If we stop now, we are all dead. If we keep going, we will lose many good men, but we will rid the world of this evil, and save ourselves as well!!" When faced with a choice of either 1- give in and never succeed in beating this thing, or 2- Take a hard fall every now and then, but get back up to keep fighting, to me the choice is clear. It is difficult to see it like that after the devastation of a fall, but if we force ourselves to stay focused, I think the choice is clear.

As far as the 90 day chart business, I will tell you what I learned from Mr. Avi Shulman, a very wise man. In his book called "Lifelines" he talks about goals. He explains that in order to accomplish in life, we must have goals. However, our goals must be specifically and carefully laid out for us. We must keep in mind a long term "end goal", but we also must have short term "pit stop goals" on the way. If we only had long term goals, we would get frustrated and never reach them. If we only had short term goals, we would be satisfied with small accomplishments, and never reach the true end goal. So we set small achievable goals - 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 1 month, 50 days, 75 days, 90 days, and beyond. When we hit each small goal - reachable in its own right, we are excited to be accomplishing, but motivated to keep moving on. If we Chas Veshalom fall after one or many small achievments, we can find comfort in the fact that we did succeed to some extent, but still feel obligated to continue to strive to more short term goals on the way to our end game.

(I'm sorry. As a Rebbe I've trained myself to write as I would speak to a class, and it is usually longer than I would like it to be.)

So in summation (Finally) I would say this. Work on reaching each small goal one at a time. Never allow yourself to fall. As you pass each checkpoint scream "To he-l with you!!! I aint never coming back here!!! (this is optional) Keep pushing towards end goal - sobriety. Should you fall on the way, chalk it up to the nature of the battle, a "casualty of war", and get back out there to fight another day.
That's the best I can do. If it still don't make sense, it won't be the first time I didn't make any sense.
Hatzlocha!!!!

thanks for clarifying Rage. basically its about finding other things to do to keep you busy, and avoiding trouble. and just redirecting your full attention. otherwise the mind cant handle it. I have to work on that!

gotcha.

Reb Yid,

I relate well to everything you wrote.

Yashar Koach!

As for Rage's points, I don't think there's any real Machlokes - everyone just needs to do what works best for him. 

havent been here for too long!
and i was quite serious abt. the get tog in pizza gan eden
kit/kot
tz90

hey tzaddik90!! welcome back! Im away from the country for a short while maybe we'll get together after Purim.
Pizza gan eden? I thought u said DR toast?

Kedusha, why did I get a yashar koach? what did I do, except for present my difficulties? you and the chevra get the yashar koach for helping me work it out!

Gesher,
Gut Voch!!
First of all, I GOT THE Yasher Koach!!
Go back and check

Second - You have no idea how many questions that I didn't even know I had were answered by others asking questions. So by bringing up insightful questions, and opening up discussions, you do deserve a Yasher Koach, for bringing topics to the forefront, and allowing others to benefit.

BTW, You didn't reply to my lengthy post. Does that mean it in fact made no sense?
Let me know!!

my apologies, Reb Yid you are right the Yashar koach is yours. Kedusha, no need to answer that one.
Yes, Reb Yid I read your points, and I appreciate the input. I dont disagree with you, but Im not sure that its any different than Ive understood up until now. I know that I made some stupid comments in my frustration, but that wasnt because I didnt believe what you said. It was more out of frustration that those ideas where not helping b'shaas maaseh. In other words your points are all valid and true, but I feel that Rage has a whole different approach that bypasses all my issues that stem from your (and my former approach). Im not sure, but Im trying to hear new ideas and apply them, because the old ideas havent worked until now.

Thank you and Yasher Koach right back.
If I may venture a somewhat personal post here, I think I can help to point out much of where you are having difficulties. If you disagree with anything I say, please just ignore them. (But let me know you are ignoring it!!) 

I've been following you from your first posts. You seem to be a very bright and intellectual person. Your questions are very pointed, and like I've said, I gained a tremendous amount of clarity from following your posts. But here's where our paths went in different directions. I stopped thinking. I stopped rationalizing. I stopped agonizing over every defeat, every challenge, every discrepancy that didn't fit with what I knew until now. I just turned it all off. All I thought about was one thing - It has to stop. "But it's hard!" It has to stop. "But what if I fall?!" It has to stop. "But what about my wife, and my sanity, and my olam haba and Hashem and my past and it doesn't make sense and what's the point............"



All that matters to me now is that I can't do it anymore. Never again. Period. But what about..... I said period.
You get the message? Just turn it off! Trust me, I am an extremely intellectual cerebral kind of person. It all has to make sense in every area of my life. That's why this thing has driven me crazy for so long. Because I couldn't make sense of it. So i stopped trying.
Let me share with you a conversation i had with my wife.
Towards the beginning of my current journey, she was obviously having a difficult time dealing with many things. I was perfectly straight and honest, which in itself was a great relief, and it was understandably rough on her. After one really difficult speech she gave me about how hard it is for her to accept the betrayal........ I looked at her and smiled. She asked me in a very puzzled way why I was smiling. Here was my response. "While you were talking, I was thinking a mile a minute. What could I respond? How can I make her see it my way? What if I can't? I'm sure I can't. It's over. It's too late. Why bother. etc. And then I realized how foolish I was. Let's say I am right. It's over with you. You will leave me. Take the kids. Then what? I am still in the same place i am now!! I can't start my life over and expect a different result unless I fix myself up! It doesn't matter if you stay or go, I must fix myself either way!!! So instead of giving up and losing everything, let me keep going, keep fighting, and maybe Hashem will be kind to me and I will be able to win back my wife's love, and my children."
It was after that speech, that my life turned around. My wife saw my battle as a personal one to improve myself, instead of me trying to prove myself to her. That made a tremendous difference in our marriage. I was able to detach my brain from the rest of my body, and just keep repeating "This has to stop!!"

So my advice to you is: You did enough intellectualizing for now. STOP THINKING ABOUT IT AND JUST DO IT!! Don't fall. And if you do, don't think about it, just start over. And don't think now about what if then, just do then if what if becomes if!! (There I go confusing myself again!!) You can do it! Just let your body do the work and bring your brain along for the ride.
That's all I've got for now.
Let me know if it makes sense - BEFORE you put your brain away for a while!!!
Hatzlocha!!!

Reb Yid wrote on 13 Mar 2011 05:24:


Very important!!!

Just to reiterate this point.  This is what finally allowed me to stop struggling with my life, and start to live my life while dealing with its struggles.  Very often we try to make sense of everything and when it all finally seems to make sense, we are left with nothing but our own 2 cents.

Reb Yid wrote on 13 Mar 2011 05:24:

You can fool some of the people some of the time....

I appreciate your comments, but I have to give it some thought...
oops!  ;D
Im not ignoring you, I just need to give it some time to settle.

thanks

Give it as much time as you need.
And if you ignore me, that's fine too. I'm a Rebbe, remember? People ignore me all the time!!
Hatzlocha!!