Continued Hatzlacha!

Hey installed! I hope you're well and having a great day!

Hey,

I'm still hanging in. I didn't have a strong nisayon yet so I'm not taking much credit for remaining clean (although I shouldn't be taking credit even if I do overcome a strong urge). Noya, thanks for dropping by hope you have a pleasant day as well.

Hey installed - I stumbled on your post after seeing you next to my name on the 90 day chart. 


I had an thought on strong nisayonot and powerful urges.  As of today, I'm 9 days clean after a bad fall, so I'm still very much in a withdrawal stage.  B'H, most of the time I feel pretty normal, but several times a day, I can get hit with a powerful sudden urge.  Now if I dwell on the urge and try to do battle with it, I'm a dead duck.  It will get me wrapped around the axle in no time.  But as you mentioned in your post, it's not me overcoming the urge, it's all H'KBH!  So here's the thought that occured to me this morning.  As I was sudden was confronted with a powerful urge, it felt as if it was Hashem's way of say to me - "as powerful and overwhelming as this urge and desire may be or has the potential to be, I'm way more powerful and I am with you."  When an urge comes it is tactile.  I can feel it.  It is powerful and penetrating and overwhelming.  We always say so much about Hashem's power.  It is all over our davening and all over this board, but how honestly can we say we experience it in a tactile, physcial way?

It's hard to convey how incredibly this turned the urge from a distressing influence to one of serenity.  Not that c's I'm going to go chasing urges, but I pray that the next urge that I feel, I can recognize that as powerful as it seems (and as we can all say, they do seem powerful) that urge is nothing, nothing compared to the power that our partner in this has! 

Hey Chaim77,

The withdrawal stage is extremely difficult for most people. It took me two months to try again. I think that the biggest gedulah is to continue trying immediately after we fall but I didn't reach that level yet (I was clean for over 40 days but I fell 3 times the day that i fell and that was that, I gave it all up). I think that hashem is having pitty on me and sparing me so far! Thanks for sharing the thought with me, I'll try to keep it in mind when I do get a strong urge. Lets climb the wall together! Looking forward to reach the top with you  .

I look forward to climbing the wall with you.  But let's not ignore the rope that those on top have let down for us.  By the way, are you tuned into the phone conference starting up mid December?  Let me know if you want more info...

Be well.

Hey Chaim,

I hear/read good things about the calls so I probably have an obligation to at least try it. I hope that it will work with my schedule (but I'll try to make it work). If you join the group and if you feel comfortable, I would like to keep in touch by phone as it helps if there are misunderstands or if one can't make it for a day. No pressure though, I know that some people prefer avoiding the phone (perfectly legitimate). Keep me posted if you're interested...

Today is day 13. Still unusually easy  :o. Can't complain!

Hope you all have a wonderful week.

Installed,  Glad to hear day 13 is going well on your side.  So to get over the concern on using the phone I set up a google voice account.  It's really pretty easy to do.  If you want to connect, let me know and I can figure out how to send my google account number via a personal message.

Kol tuv,

-c

Installed, call is gr8, if u gana stick with it, ain't easy but well worth , KOT don't luck back, just go up and up, u will get there I know u can make it

Chaim, I'll take you up on that offer. I'll contact you b'n when the new cycle begins.
JIP, will try to stick with it if it works for me but ya, I can imagine that a daily call can be difficult...

Day 14, still smooth sailing. I almost feel guilty/bad that it's been so easy. I feel as if I should be doing more because I'm not sacrificing much (as much as most guys here are). I started learning mesilat yesharim and I'm starting to feel a bit guilty about my current unholy lifestyle (very little kedusha in my life). It's difficult to know how much to accept upon myself without breaking. Even though this challenge has been easier than last time, it is a sacrifice (I don't initiate an arousal which is worth something). Should i try to stop listening to secular music? Should I learn more? Should I do more chesed? Donno but I hate this feeling of guilt (funny but I usually don't feel guilty P&Ming and now that I've stopped, I feel bad about things that I never felt bad about).

Anyway, I'll hopefully figure all this out  ???

Day 15, very unproductive  >. There is nothing worse than an unproductive day! Still clean but had an urge to act out at a certain point today. Still determined to "keep on trucking"...

guilt is the yetzer hora. Stop it

Guilt shmilt

Unproductive

As we say in boropark

Who kares??

Guilt breeeds guilt and depression

Depression breeds porn

Porn breeds guilt

Guilt breeds dpression

Depression breeds porn which breeds guilt andporn and deprepornguilt...

Break the chain

Hop into my truck

Pop open a bud light

Put a mbd 8track into the cassette player

KOT!!!

Oh by the way

Simcha kills porn depression and guilt
In on swell foop

Bardichev and FTS, it's funny that you both think that guilt is a bad thing, I thought that it is actually a good thing. I p&med for years without an ounce of guilt. I was wishing to feel that remorse that most frum people felt but I didn't. I felt deep down that we are all programed to believe in a religion (almost every culture had/has a religion because life does not make sense without one but we believe that they are all false and that we got it right - don't they all?). There were people throughout history that made crazy sacrafices for their gods (i.e Aztecs sacrificing pumping human hearts, Muslim extremists committing suicide etc.) so they were/are obviously convinced 100% that they were/are right so I always felt that I'm just another person, dust in the wind, worshiping a god that is most probably just an illusion. I still have these feelings but I'm trying to just put it all aside and just accept it for what it is. Bruit suggested that I pretend that I believe and I think that it's great advice (and it's kinda working).  Life with values is so much more attractive. When I read Mesilat yesharim I realize that life could have so much more meaning (but my skepticism is definitely a barrier). This obviously triggers guilt for all the years that I did not work on purity. I don't know if it is necessarily a tool of the yh it may be part of my teshuva. I'm not a depressed guy by nature so I'm not afraid that this will lead me to acting out but who knows...

Anyway, I wish that I would just stop thinking and just accept it like most people, life would be so much more simple...   

Dear Installed,

Addictions aside for a moment, anyone whose Emunah is weak will have trouble controlling the y"h for arayos.  That's why, among other reasons, that it's more important than ever that Emunah be properly taught to our children - and ourselves.  Many people say that they believe because they're frum (like, lehavdil, adherents of other religions believe in their religious dogma because their religion requires such belief).  However, it should really be the opposite: We're frum because we believe that it's the Emes.

I recently completed a wonderful series of Shiurim on this very topic by Rav Dovid Sapirman of Toronto.  Rav Sapirman recently started the Ani Maamin Foundation, to help strengthen the Emunah of our youth.  He has spoken about the need for this at no less than two recent Torah Umesorah conventions.  Rav Sapirman believes it's no longer acceptable (if it ever was) to sidestep the issues of Emunah that bother our young people (and may still bother them when they get older, because they've never been answered). 

There are three sets of Shiurim:

1.) "Know What to Answer to YOURSELF" (existence of G-d, Torah MiSinai, and other topics) - set of 10 CDs.

2.) "Unraveling the Mysteries of Divine Providence" (this world and the next, human suffering, the Holocaust, and more) - set of 6 CDs.

3.) "The Oral Torah: Divine and Eternal" - set of 8 CDs.

I highly recommend these life changing Shiurim.  They can be ordered directly from Rav Sapirman by contacting him at dsapirman@gmail.com.

If you'd like to try them out, or for those who can't afford to order the CDs, the Shiurim are available for free download at this link:

www.divineinformation.com/audios/

Kedusha