'welcome

how goes things in the land of singular knowledge (1daat)?

Hey, Zem, BB, Dov, thanks for checkin in.  Be"H still clean.  Don't know the count, somewhere in the high 200's I think.  So I started to apply what I've learned in program and here to my eating problem.  I'm only a week into it, so the rah rah from the newness has to fade and then will come the talks with "H.  Right now I'm running the show.  oy.

I keep on with my parole.  I'm making it a positive thing.  But every day I'm noticing, usually at Ashrei, that I'm drooping around the edges.  Something's out of whack.

I had a bipolar manic patient get mad at me, and tell me what a krappy therapist I was and left the session.  Just happened, so here I am.  I'm scared he'll get me in trouble. that somehow I failed him.  there's no really getting around that I don't think.  I feel bad.  I feel really lonely and defeated that I DID do a krappy job.  In the middle I asked him to "give me a minute" and I just closed my eyes and asked "H for help.  I still couldn't do him much good.  I know it's not all me, and that's probably the old addict self-centeredness, but that's how I'm feeling right now.  So it's good to post this.  I'll go get a consultation, too , I guess.  This is the kind of thing that used to drive me straight to the shmutz.  Now I just feel what I feel.  B"H  B"H!!  I feel like I did when my family told me I did something wrong.  Yeah, yeah, I know all the psychobabble--that's then, this is now; you did your best; you're ok, blah blah blah.  At the end of the day these are feelings that used to drive me to p&M.  Now I'm just lonely.

I need a shout out, guys.

On an up note, I'm going to see my daughter second week in August.  It's been many years.  She tells me she's excited that I'm coming.  Me too, but being very careful to stay clean and clear with her.

My older boy tells me the younger one 17+ is smoking MJ nearly every day.  So the younger boy lied to me with a straight face several months ago when he got caught by the police, he told me he wasn't hardly doing it, maybe once a month.  So of course I freaked out by myself for a day.  Talked about it with the Rav, and settled down.  Taking a more "sober" approach.  I got together the brain scan literature--big colorful scans, blue, red, yellow, green--on long term effects of heavy MJ smoking and sent it to my older son.  He read it, it shook him up, he said he was going to pass that on to his friends and that his younger brother needed to see the articles.  So that's about all I can do on that part.  Still have to deal with the lying, what's up with our relationship, and what's hurting that he needs to be doing that.

Here's my question to you guys. I'd like the parliament to weigh in on this.  My older boy asked me if I would tell him about my life, for real.  I think I could do that without looking for pity.  If I get going, and hold back info, he'll immediately know I'm doing that, he can smell a rat.  I'm thinking that if I talk to them about how my addictions have caused so much pain in my and others' lives, and tell the emes, that maybe it's too much for a father to tell his sons?

I'm great with other people's problems.  I'm not good with my own.  Duh!  Also I'm going to talk with an old-guy therapist  that I really respect.  but I'd like you guy's take on this.

thanks alla youz.

1daat you're doing great (and don't let one psycho patient let you think otherwise). Everyone of your posts gives me inspiration.
Re your question of coming clean I can't give you an answer, but I think you can use it give you a better understanding of your younger sons not giving you the emes.  While you appeared to be upset with him for not coming fully clean with you, you contemplate -- maybe rightfully so -- not coming fully clean with them. Both maybe wrong, both maybe right, or one wrong and one right but contrasting the two I thing helps to deflect the blow to our ego from the perceived betrayal. Just my observation. Keep inspiring us. 

UAJ, wow.  ur-a-jew wrote on 01 Jul 2011 00:46:
  [my emphases added]

My takeaway is that maybe I can understand his withholding from me a little if I can be straight with myself about my withholding (right or wrong, as you say)from them.  Either way it's not a betrayal, but something that now becomes understandable, rather than a betrayal of trust.

If I got this wrong, or something you didn't mean, please please come at me again.

What a help this was.  I just all of a sudden relaxed and felt the love again when I read your post. 

I don't know how to adequately thank you for helping me see outside my box.  May Hashem continue to bless you with everything you need.

Somebody just called and asked if I wanted to ride with him to the farbrengen.  Love keeps coming.  Masbiah L'chol chai ratzon

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 15 Jun 2011 16:22:
.  mostly just trying to take it 1 dayatatime.

Dear sir,

Your question means a lot to me, for I have wanted to tell my two older children about my situation for a few years, now. An older mentor of mine in the program (who is gone now) used to say that we tend to give our kids speeches and lectures. But our kids do not want to know about our wisdom and solutions for their problems.

He said that our kids want to know how we beat our brains out - and what we did to get back. And how hard it is sometimes to stay right.

But I told my oldest daughter (about 20yo, and who I am most close with) when she asked me who all these people calling me are and what I do on the internet: "I want to tell you - but feel like waiting till you are older." She said that's OK, and she will wait as long as she has to.

I would sorely loathe leaving this world without telling them, you know. Hate to have them find out after I am gone, from someone else.

Do you share that feeling?

Good Shabbos, chaver

1daat wrote on 01 Jul 2011 03:17:


You hit it on the money.  And I'm glad to hear that it helped because as I wrote it I was worried that perhaps I was "coming at" you too strong.  Have a wonderful Shabbos.

dov wrote on 01 Jul 2011 03:27:


I'm just crying.  long wait. I just want all the new guys to understand what it is to be understood and not alone, able to cry from someone's love and understanding.  Thank you Dov.

My boys are 20 and almost 18.  I'm not sure if, when or how.  but I've put the question to my chevra and before Hashem.  Answers always come.  Listen to me you new guys.  Answers always come.

Ch'v'sh from someone else.  Or worse, they stumble on my conviction on the internet. 

Dov, this Shabbos when I bench licht (I live by myself.  Well, my dog isn't old enough to learn the brochos) I will have a talk with my God, and ask him to please shower my virtual friend Dov, with all brochos, him and his whole family, and to all who are dear to him.  This man touches me, like a real friend, and yet I will probably never give him the hug I so want to give him and feel the tears streaming down my face.

Good Shabbos.  Thank you.

UAJ.  Never fear.  Lay it on me bro! Thanks again.  What you said stuck.

Good Shabbos, Sweet Shabbos.  As Reb B said, "Shabbos koidesh, Shabbos koidesh, oy yoy yoy yoy yoy.

1daat wrote on 01 Jul 2011 04:36:


So when are you coming to my home town? Or do we live around the corner from each other? Who says this life will not include a meeting of some kind by many of us here on GYE?

Maybe one day we will have a virtualized conference somewhere.

Imagine 100 or so guys (ladies on the other floor of the bldg.) who are each wearing nametags like:

Hi! I am Shmendrick
or

HI! I am BARDS, KEEP ON LORRYING!
or 

Hi! I am Blind Beggar. Spare a quarter?


No real names. Just the ridiculous virtual ones 99% of us sit behind. Nu. But it'll be so much fun!! Maybe some will actually come, as long as we do not give out our real names. A sort of "Anonymouses Anonymous"!

And just to get everyone who cares angry, I will be there with a fake name, for a change!

Really, though, I love you too, 1Daat, otherwise I would not make the effort to share with you. We are brothers in some way. Boruch Hashem. I consider it an honor.

dov wrote on 04 Jul 2011 20:28:


Hey Guys,

I just jumped in here for a few minutes, mostly to see what was going on so that I could tell a potential new prospect about it, and found that my "name" is still being remembered . . . I feel so embarrassed  :-[ at what a lousy friend I have been to y'all, and at the same time so happy  that you still include me as one of the chevra.

Thank you -- thank you!

I will IY"H try to be here more, especially during the summer months when it isn't as busy, and it is better to say indoors ......

As for meeting some day...by all means we should!  I have already attended two face to face GYE meetings, that mainly happened through Duvid Chaim's group and through Elya K.  It really would be great if these could happen more often, as It is so important that we feel a sense of brotherhood and kinship with each other, and klnow that we share something very special.

1daat - be strong.  I wish you all the very best in meeting with your daughter, and with sharing with your son.  In my humble opinion, your kids do not need to do all the details of your past and sruggles.  I think it is good to share with the, that there was and is a struggle, and that you can relate to their own struggles, but there does not have to be equality between a parent and a child.  A parent has more of a right and need to know about their kids lives than vice versa.

So share what you feel is appropriate, and don't feel guilty about holding back on what they really don't need to know

Love you my friend,

Shmendrick

Shmen, it was great to hear from you, as always.

Sorry, guys.  This has turned out to be one of those long, probably tedious posts again...

So last night my older son asked me about my life. Many of you know I've been talking about this conversation being in the wind.  I asked them to start by asking me about what they wanted/needed to know.  I started, and they asked questions along the way.  I had talked with my therapist, my rav, my closest friend, and the guys here about approaching this.  But once things got started it just took on a life of its own, and off we went.  I disclosed everything I could think of that would be classified as a secret.  It was in many ways like a fifth step.  I left nothing major out, and answered all of their questions honestly.  I told them about the arrest, the sex addiction, GYE.  I covered all the various addictions I've gone through, and talked about the bipolar disorder.  I kept stressing that where there is mental illness in the family, that what would ordinarily not be considered a gateway drug in adoloscence, can be just that because of a genetic vulnerability (I had given them hard science articles about this weeks ago)

At the end I was concerned that they would be shocked, that it was TMI, or that they wouldn't get past the "pervert" label.  They basically said that my having made of my life what i have, given my childhood and all the following craziness was unbelievable to them, and they both spontaneiously came over to me and hugged me.  I cried, of course, as I am beginning to now.

After that my youngest boy, who has up till now been very guarded with me, began to talk about himself, and my impact on him over the years.  My other son and I kept silent while he talked.  My older boy said he'd like to take a walk with me to talk about some things.  And the conversation got light and funny and everyone seemed relieved, most of all me, I think.

So now there are no more secrets between us.  And it seemed to be a good thing for all of us.

I would not recommend what I did for others.  Each situation is different.  Getting clean how I did could be devastating in other situations.  It's something to give very careful thought to.  Talk it over with your rav, your therapist, your friends, spouse, and most definitely the guys here at GYE.  Be very very circumspect in even approaching the idea.  I spent a long time thinking and sharing and weighing things before I decided to do this.  Most importantly, my oldest son ASKED me about my past.  I told him that it could be a shock to learn about me and my secrets.  He said he wanted to know.  My younger son said the same when I asked.  Tread very carefully.

The food issue has gone smoothly.  Hashem comes in just when I'm about to lose myself in the bowl of spaghetti.  6.5 lbs gone into thin air.

I am hoping a window will open when I'm with my daughter in August, that we can have a similar talk.  If not, I'll wait till it's natural, or she asks.

For you new guys, please listen up.  I'm a science guy.  There is no logical, empirical reason that GYE should work.  We don't talk, we don't know each other, a bunch of Jews, all kinds of Jews, even non Jews, going counter culture and talking turkey, and we're all crazed, compulsive addicts.  It just doesn't make sense that it should work.  BUT IT DOES!  "It works if you work it".  There is no way I could have ever been open enough to quietly and gently and lovingly talk to my boys the way I was able, were it not for two things:  1)  That the guys here have always hung in there with me.  Never failed me.  Not once; and 2)  that the focus here at GYE has been not just to put the plug in the jug, not just to turn away from that which corrupts me and would have me shamed, humiliated and dead, but to, rather, TURN TO.. AND TO KNOW HASHEM ON A FIRST NAME BASIS--FOR IT TO BE A LOCAL CALL.  Close, reliable, handling the details, taking away the fears and overwhelms bit by bit.  Letting Davening suddenly begin to have new meanings, being directed to just the right vort to teach me what I need at every important juncture in my life.  This is a reality you can have.  It's something I know you've all experienced at some time and want it back.  You can do this, Bez"H.  You can learn to watch your eyes, not because GYE tells you to, but because you WANT to.  You'll devise your own tricks to guard your eyes.  You'll turn from the compulsion.  And when you slip or fall, the guys here won't let you wallow in it.  They'll pick you up.  You can try again.  I have a friend here, I won't tell you his name to not embarass him, and he slipped and fell many many times, and with unbelievable determination kept at it, for months and months.  And now the spell broke, the waters parted, and he walks on dry land.  Baruch Hashem.  Never ever give up.  You can do this.

1daat, as always you are an inspiration.  Continued hatzlacha.

Continued hatzlocha walking with Hashem - nu, it is not such a mysterious and profound thing after all, right? It's just regular, nice living, for a change.

Beautiful. Hasdei Hashem again.