Because you don't see the point. People think all kinds of things, but they always do what they believe will make them feel good. And those beliefs are based on our understanding, not on reality.

Try the pleasure-predicting method. Before you run write down an estimate of how satisfying running will be, o-100%. After you run write down how satisfying it was.

Hi Yehoshua, how are you?

This thread could really be re-named "The Advanced Philosophy Thread"

Just dropping in to say hello and see if I've been quoted again recently.

Also, I'll say that I'm impressed at how helpful you are with your baby.

--Elyah

Wow, Yehoshua ( I forgot your real name again, sorry!) so many important points get glossed over in your posts. They are like an outline! So I will elaborate a bit on some things you wrote (I wrote these long posts as snippets during work, a minute here and a minute there through the day):

You are writing like you are pretty concerned with how you are thinking...do you sometimes feel like you are getting wrapped up in thinking about your thinking? I know I do. And I see that as part of my addiction, mainly. I do it so much less now, thank G-d. Using the brain that got me in all this trouble is not a wise choice to make, I think ( ). Eventually, thinking gets a little straightened out and definitely keeps getting straighter and more useful...but why push it? What's the rush? For the ego-comfort of pretending we are 'in control' of things that are still so influenced by the subconscious and emotional payoffs that we cannot yet even see? Our intelligence will gain the mastery over this together with the dynamics of relationships? That sounds like just more fantasy, to me. And I used to live in it. I am not saying that you do - just modeling it for you by admitting experience, and wondering out loud.

You wrote that you wondered why Jews are so successful in the world. You know, the huge percentage of Jewish Nobel prize winners in physics, medicine, etc, etc. The success of many Jews in business is surely part of that same phenom, too. It calls to mind Mark Twain's "Concerning the Jews" (hey - that ol' Sam was another username guy, too!). It is amazing. The economic success of Israeli industry (see the book, "Start-Up Nation"). If only we could make it in basketball...

My thought on that is like this: My parents (holocaust survivors) pushed higher education soooo hard. When I got serious about learning Torah in EY, I saw that for a Jew, Torah learning is where genius is. The laws of blessings we are to make on great geniuses shows us this. For while we are enjoined to make a blessing on a Hippocrates, there is no blessing at all on an Einstein, being that genius was only given to Jews to use for deeply knowing G-d, period.

Interestingly, they say we use only 'a fraction' of our brain power, whatever that really means. But if so, why do we have all that brain capacity? (And how do the evolutionists explain these kinds of things? Just another redundant system from the OCD-evolutionary-mommy? Whatever.) Looking at the depth and breadth of Torah (the revealed parts and the esoteric) tells me that there is so much to learn - we'd each need a boat load of 'brains' to get where our Tatty wants us to get! And the sforim tell us this is just a drop in the ocean - and they are not kidding. Typical of Yiddishkeit - G-d says to us "lo alecha hamlocha ligmor" (Mishna, pirkei Avos): You cannot make it to where you are truly destined to reach in life - but if you give up on yourselves, you lose. But if you work at it never give up doing what is truly in your power to do - even though you will not 'make it' - I will take you places you could never have dreamed of reaching. And regarding addiction - every recovering addict understands and lives this very point in his or her recovery. We do not do it, He does.

This may be part of what the great Rabbi MC Luzatto means in Messilas Yeshorim where he writes, "v'hachassidus ha'amiti - rachok hee mitziyur sichleinu" - "we cannot possibly even imagine what the goal ('chassidus' - true piety) looks like." What we do know is that chassidus is about love (the word 'Chessed' means 'love' or 'kindness' bourne of love, not of justice), so chassidus is service of G-d using true love to go beyond law [which [i]is[/i] nature] and human capacity. But the extra capacity we are born with hints at our destiny for much, much greater things than we can possibly wrap our minds around. We are so far from cows. Our job is the impossible: to reach G-d.

So, getting back to my parents...I believe they inherited something but forgot what it really was. They were born and bred with the old Jewish idea of scholarship is valuable - which had already been twisted by 2 generations of 'emancipated' European Jews before them into 'secular education'. Hence all the prewar Jewish intelligentsia. Our earlier forfathers always knew that a mind (not a 'mime') is a terrible thing to waste, for Jews are here to know G-d and have Him known in this world! It's part of what Rav Noach Weinberg used to call 'Jewish Consciousness'. Many Jews retained the awareness that above all else, we are destined to be true philosophers and people with profound knowledge and understanding of the only act in town (G-d) and that we are the key to the rest of mankind knowing G-d.

And it all goes back to our beginning: the Exodus. G-d repeatedly announced that He is performing all the plagues and miracles in Egypt NOT to finally get those pesky Egyptians to let His Jews free, but (and I quote Him): "so that Egypt will come to know that I am G-d," and know that "there is nothing else like Me, anywhere." Thus, we Jews - in enslavement or freedom, whether we know it, like it, or not - are primarily G-d's tool for teaching the world what G-d is. It's what "a kingdom of priests" means. (Rav Avigdor Miller z"l used to speak about that point a lot.)

So you didn't work out this morning. Nu. But you took care of these kids fairly well, you were honest about some things and faced them, you did a few other things right, and you are even one of the few humans concerened about G-d's Torah and His Rashi. I suggest you consider practicing letting yourself live and grow, without tying yourself down to perfectionism or to figuring everything out.

Whew, that was fun. Hope it will be helpful to you in some way, chaver.

Nedy, why is there "banned" written under your green maze?

And yes, I feel like I want to fall. I am not myself. Really, I forget and make mistakes and.... It is really what my falling is all about.


It started when I was in my 5th grade or something, and I was supposed to do my math home assingment. I was at my grandmother's giant house, and had a room of my own. So I had trouble solving that, it was so hard for me, that I start m*. And like that has it been ever since.

I have to come out with this, I am sorry, please don't read any further perhaps not to get triggered. I will not use any bad language or describe in detail, but i have to write on how it really started.

I was really small, like 7 or something. I don't know... And my 2 year younger sister and I were playing all the time. Very normal. But I don't know why, they put us in the same bed at my grandmother's (i guess that was normal too) and fate had it so, that we saw a movie (not p* at all, just some love scene - very harmless) just before we went to bed. We didn't think about s*, but we got curious about our bodies. Nothing out of the normal, we were laughing and touching each other. It was not s* at all, it was really just kids fooling around with no thoughts or intentions or s.
But then one time - I don't know how it happened - it got s*. We didn't do anything s. really, I mean no oral or any other s*. But we did rub against each other and then I felt like an ejaculation - but I didn't ejaculate (of course, I was too young) - it was some sort of pain that I felt, and after that I felt that we did something wrong, I got up right away and nothing like that happened ever again. I knew that it was wrong and I said that also to my sister.

So when my cousin and I were playing at one time, as I felt this is going the wrong direction, I just got up and left. (something that I am learning today anew).

It is a disturbing memory and I am deeply sorry for not being the older brother.

There is something else too. You know the Talmud discussion on how one man is dirty and the other one isn't. So the first thinks he is clean, since he sees the other guy, and the second believes he is dirty for the same reason. Well so I saw my sister and I wanted to be her. She didn't get punished (as a girl), she was right and I was punished, even when it wasn't so clear who did what...

These three memories follow me today still.

I get nervous, and want to escape into m*, into trying to be likeble, lovable, sweet and I want to be abused. It is very sick, very sick. Perhaps I wanted my father to love me, even though he did show love to me and I do respect him and love him - just that love that he gave my sister was greater, to my opnion (why wasn't she punished too, since it was also her fault).

Baruch Hashem, for me it always stayed at p* and it never went any further.

So, my dear Freud. Now I should be ok. But it doesn't work like that....

Now comes the real hard work I guess, and that is hard for me.


So how do I deal whith anything these days. I am not online so much, since there so much to do... But ok, there is always time to act out, right!? So here goes my struggle:

Dov you are right on. And to quote Elya... Uf Elya, sometimes I really feel like digging up that tel. number of yours and just call you and start crying like rain. I feel that right now.

And thinking is my problem. So these days I say to Hashem:

Please I am powerless, you take care of fear and I will do the housekeeping.

or

You take care of anxiety and I will just read these few lines from Rashi.

or

You take care of the lazy feeling and I will just lift these weights a few times.

My thinking gets in the way and I really hate my head, that is why I bang it against the wall. And Dov, you are so right, my thinking got me in this mess in the first place! You wrote that in some other thread and you say here too ever so gently, thank You, and you are right.

I'll write on... Just have to take the laundrey to the..., before baby wakes up (sorry to end like this, but this is better then anything - cos I started to write a post like that and then just erased as it wasn't finished - so only a fragment now...)

Sorry...

And all the best to you guys out there, you have my respect!



B

So no disrespect Dov, but I need to continue with this "perfection" path.

It's really not perfection, simply a struggle to regain my sanity. It's not enough for me talk about it. I know, that is not what you ment. But, hey, eine versuch ist es wert. What my granny would say.

I will try and keep track of my struggles here (if it is ok with you guys?!) Ok here goes:

I still didn't work out. It is really the sore throat to blame and I am afraid, that if i get sick, then I am no use anymore to my 4 month child. She needs me and she comes first, then everything else. But tomorrow surely I will do my best.
I need to prepare for the marathon in october! Yes that is my goal, marathon in october.

I bought the german magazine Spiegel and read already two articles. But no books. I finished Weber Max, now I am off the another book on film (still on the beginning). I will try and read 2 books a month. Hard, but not impossible.

I read Rashi today.

I need to do a phD on film, but somwhow connected to language (german would be best). I need to think about it.

So i will update on how this things are going daily if possible. Doing it as therapy.

All the best to you guys, Good night and good luck

Will 'Der Spiegel' (much mo fun to pronounce it "Derrr Shpeeeegle!", no?) have a sports headline one day saying:

"A GYE member who goes by his username, 'Yehoshuah' has won the marathon finally beating that skinny guy from Kenya!!"

?

I'd like that.

Out of the Blue

OK, now for a reason that living a recovering life is so satisfying even though we are imperfect ...based on your goofy (but cool) marathon thing, be"H:

Do you expect to win this marathon? Perhaps you do not. I am guessing that you do not. There is always that skinny guy whatsisname Umbu Lako or something, from Kenya, anyhow and they always win...)

OK...so I forgot who I am writing to, here...you! So maybe you really do expect to win this time (helped by some nefarious plan to 'ice' the Umbu dude beforehand) - but I ask you this: If I could tell you (as the great, fat psychic that I am) that you will come in fifth place...would you drop out of the proarations right now - or would you go for it anyhow? I guess that you would.

If so, then for you, the real glory is competing and finishing respectably. Wow. That means that you - 'Yehoshua' - feel cool 'enough' by just being part of a really cool process/thing/project. It's glorious enough to be a real part of an endeavor that we know is glorious. We can get caught up in it, if we know it is a great thing.

Hmm....

The 3rd step is about acceptance of being part of a thing that is cooler, more glorious than anything else we can experience: G-d's individual plan for you, me, each of us. An eternal plan. Right this second as we sit here doing whatever. Being present for real life is so much bigger an object that masturbating or not masturbating is. Outgrowing the small-mindedness of a life of struggle is what recovering people are after. Not perfection, but humbly accepting our place in reality. It's glorious and interesting enough for us, even if we don't 'win'.

Uf, no no. I just want to run it. Not win it, uf it's that Jewish mom kind of thinking you have: "Son, Umbu Kenyaka is running to, I don't except you to win, really... Just have fun, hey but a trophy wouldn't kill you, right!?"
No, for real. I just want to run the 42 km, just run. Perhaps under 4 hours would be good for my first marathon.
Der Shpieeeeeegel will of course cover my great win...

(I hope you win. )

If you 'ice' the Umbo dude, that would also make him pretty cool.

--Elyah

First, what does "to ice someone" mean?

And secondly I must be honest with you guys, ever since I wrote my big plans I am having real problems to achieve any of them...

I have been a bit ill lately with this sore throat of mine, also this housekeeping takes a lot of time. I don't really want to discuss it, but hey, I need to, since it is my primary job now.

So here my day

I get up at 4, make the artificial milk, feed our baby (if she wakes up, that is) and change her and sometimes sing her to sleep. Sometimes she gets up at 6.

At 6 I get up, since I make coffee (exept on mondays - I think, when I get up at 5.30) for my wife, then we eat breakfast and then my wife goes to work. By then, our girl is up and happy. So then it is food time, burp time and then play time. I need to play with her or else she gives me stern looks (can you believe it, at 5 months!?). But lately she can play a bit on her own.

That is my time to clean up the kitchen (dishes and all), it is the time, when I can make noise :-). In one good hour she gets sleepy and I have to hold her or go to bed with her, of course... As she falls a sleep I will then carry her in her own bed...

Vau, I am really fond of her. She is very beautiful. I love her, I guess. Fatherly love, it's a new thing.

Well when she falls asleep I do the laundry (Baruch Hashem we also have a dryer) and make lunch (today potatos and mangold / and for dinner pancakes from spelt).

So then the process repeates itself. Our girl wakes up, we eat, burp, play, fold the laundrey (she doesn't like that part) and fall asleep again (not always...)

Then my wife comes home (around 13.30 or something) and we eat.

Then our girl wakes up :-) you know what follows, right!?

Anyway at 19.00 we bathe and then she eats and falls asleep (around 8 or 9 pm). Then I still have to clean everything up. And I am free at around 10 pm.

This is where my activities for being sober begin. So I am sorry for writting all this, but I must somehow admit that my plans (organization) is not so good.

But yesterday I helped my wife on this project, then did a small translation... Hey, suddenly it was midnight... Believe it or not...

So I will try and get up tomorrow early and do my excercises.

Also honestly, it does give me strength to think. Hey, today I will run, I have run to do.... That is also important I think... Surely I will gain speed in time and have time also to run and read more.

I do read the news daily now and I do read Rashi. Sometimes I don't read the whole thing, cos I need to jump... But hey. Well honestly, sometimes I start reading something else on chabad.org...

Life is beautiful for me, I admit. But on the other hand it is really important for me to start reading more, to do my runs (and then eventually the marathon), to do my phD...

So tonight I hope to me able to gather my wits and finish watching Secrets and Lies by Mike Leigh... Another classic that I didn't see...

Wow, what a beautiful day filled with real servicework you have. Precious. And taking a few pictures of the two of you during laundry-folding might make it more fun for the cutie - and to see her grow and change in those pics over the year will be so cool and meaningful. Sweet.

But it can be boring...right? Maybe seeing the difference in the pics will remind you that "yesterday's gone" for real with little kids - they grow and before you know it, the cute kid of 18 months is no longer there...I find it very sad, actually. Painful. To me, it's really like losing a child and having him replaced by an older, different one. Wow. Makes me carpe' the diem's a lot more and feel less bored with the present.

OK, so to 'ice' someone means to kill them. Dead people need to be on ice so they don't stink up the place. Hence the 'icing'. In Cheech and Chong (Up In Smoke) parlance it would be referred to as 'being incommunicado'. (BTW, are we allowed to mention people like C&C here on GYE?)

Keep it going, chaver!

- Dov

Dov, first of all a big thank you for your post.

Then I must admit that I am having real problems staying sober and staying mentaly "normal". As you already might know, of course I haven't done any running, my reading is realy low, the newspaper I haven't touched and I don't remember the last time I read Rashi....

I am loosing it, indeed.

Yesterday I had a fight with my wife. She is on the edge, me too. Today is her exam. To say it short: I don't like being yelled at. That should be a normal thing, but not for addict, who then locks himself in the bathroom, hits himself on the head many times and then goes to sleep on the couch.

You know what!? I was right, I am right. But then so what.

I left and didn't do anything for our baby.

Ok, not all true. It was around 2 at night and after that I cleaned the bottles, I did clean the dishes, then did some laundrey and heated up the water. So I do care, but...

Even though I know it is wrong that my wife yells at me for no particular reason (our girl started crying, and then we get really edgy), I still shouldn't have left.... In the morning, she made the first step and we both said that we are sorry, and we are.

So what have i been doing, that I didn't run, work out in the moring, read Rashi, read the newspaper!?
Guys this haushold thing is taking me all in. And I don't want it to be my center, I want like "surf" through my chores and then do all that...

Ok, now i am writting with one hand and holding her with other...

Just this. I lov my baby girl and i really love my wife. And Dov, it isn't boring bu i would like to do all that stuff and at 10 pm i don't have the strength anymore. i only try snd catch up on my film knowledge (yesterday saw double indemnity ,1944, wilder) Saw Alice in the cities, Clockwork Orangeand others, must start making notes, hm...

So there you go, after that movie - arond 1 ami go to sleep ang get up at 1.30, at 4 or at 6 and by then i have to get up, make coffee....

Anyway, respect to all the housholders, its hard to do it and even harder to do it well...

all the best to you guys!!!

If you watched A Clockwork Orange and are still able to hold your food:sick: , then I fear there is something very wrong with you, chico.

Finally I answer, hopefully this will work.... Since I wrote the reply two times already....

I had a slip yesterday and I had keri the day before. Uf. I slip constantly the past days, I go out to buy food and can't seem to leave my eyes steady. Plus yesterday I was near a fall, it was that keri business that got me all down.
Keri - I had a beautiful dream, about my mom and uncle and it was very inspiring and holy, then in my dream I found myself home with other people, sitting at the comp. I could block the view of others by my big chair, so I just browsed and found explicit material. That is p*. I could restrain a few times, but I kep coming back and bang...
But then as the day came I struggled hard and I kept clean, sober and active.
At 2.30 pm after watching Renoir's Une Partie de Campaigne and a bit of Modern Times by Chaplin, I got tired. THen I still needed to iron a shirt for my wife, clean the dishes and the baby bottles. And I felt overwhelmed and lustful. So I browsed and stumbled upon bad things, I closed it and then searched again and closed it... Now I had like 3 hours sleep with some pause for bottle feeding....

And I feel like acting out, really.

But hey, I am reading the chizuk Break free. And I find this really true, depression and sadness are YH biggest tools, and I should really be joyful for trying hard and achieving as much as I am. Watching films after hours is a big thing and working on myself should bring me joy. So here I am feeling joy, for some funny reason, it is working, I am happy.

Strange.

Clockwork. Yes, after I felt like I want to act out. It has a lot of nudity, but that isn't the worst part, it talks about giving free way to pleasure, unlimited. With Bethoveen in the background and great cinematography you can feel the character growing inside of you. Even though he is sick, way sick. Much more then people here. I don't want to go into details.
But after this movie I needed to find an answer to this guy, because he is part of me now. Plus, I think he was part of me even before I watched the film. You know what I mean.
So my answer to this character (or to me) was: All you do is take, take, take (you take life, freedom, beauty, peace, home) - and I don't care for what reason (be it pleasure, be it sickness, i don't know). And that is not me.

The film takes a nice turn though. He gets medical treatment and develops pain whenever he wants to act violently or s*. But he doesn't really change....

He still takes takes takes....

The film works on many levels though and is worth the pain i felt.... so dov, as always, you are right