Hey guys, I'm on day 25. And I need to rant a bit, so bear with me. First of all, im hoping the past two days don't count as a fall - some poking around on google (my computer is filtered and with covenant eyes that my wife sees, so not much i can do and yes, I'm an idiot) but no finish and nothing explicit. Either way, its been amazing until two days ago. Then it really started again, that feeling that overtakes me. I am so committed to doing this. I don't think I can bear the shame of being caught again by the wife (who has been amazing and supportive - if I were her I would have dumped me long ago.) See, I know I can't live with porn. I know it destroys me in every way and pushes me to the point of suicidal thinking. On the other hand, I can't seem to live without it either. Now that the thrill of my streak is over and the drive has overtaken me, I feel extremely lethrgic, physical pressure and pain. I can't be myself. I feel compeled to poke around online. Every google search takes me to something innapropriate. It's weird, I may not even get hard, I just NEED to see ... It's an actual need otherwise I can't function. So its literally chazal - "oy li myotzri oy li myitzri", can't live with it, can't live without it. My wife's a niddah now till next week. And we were too tired the last three days she was clean so i have been high and dry for quite some time now (feels like forever). I hope I can make it. I really hope I can make it. I want to break free. I don't want to live this way anymore. I want to live a healthy life. But I can't seem to live without this little drug. This comfort blanket. This escape. And I can't go anywhere without it surrounding me! This world is filled with it! How could anyone claim to have a filter when they have access to twitter or instagram or tiktok? Those apps are literally porn sites. Does everyone else just not notice/feel an interest in exploring? Is it just addicts like me? I don't get it. But I know that I am suffering. I know it's for Hashem and i'm doing the right thing. But if I had my way I wouldn't be subjecting myself to this because this is hell. Both ways - it's hell. Day 25. Will there be a day 26?

Thanks for listenin, hope y'all are doing ok. Love this forum. It is so helpful to have ppl to talk to about this. My wife could never understand. 

Excuse my blunt response. But i am entitled to say it because i was there, where you are now, not so long ago (a little over 1300 days....)

So your wife is just a kosher masturbating tool?!

Maybe try working out, jogging etc, to release the hormones and calm down.
it helps for me...

hatzlocha!

I'm not sure why everyone immediately feels that when someone talks about the release they feel from being together with their wife, it must mean their wife is "just a kosher masturbating tool". As far as I am concerned, Hashem intended for the intimate relationship to be about bonding, about connection, about the deepest expression of love - in addition to the only muttar and healthy release for the husband. So yes, I am looking forward to next week for more reasons than one. And I think that's perfectly fine. I am allowed to have feelings also, right? And my feelings are that right now I am going through (what feels like) HELL for Hashem and my wife and I am grateful for the kosher outlet from this hell, which is also incidentally a side benefit of the incredible oneness and intimacy that sex with wife brings. I never force on my wife, I never complain when she is too tired. I always keep her pleasure at forefront of my mind. But I am also human and I need this for my sanity. This is one of the things I don't appreciate about Dov's approach. Two things can be true at once. And the husband is allowed to look forward to sex for his personal release as well - didn't chazal say that one of the reasons (if not the primary!) reason to treat one's wife properly is because she spares him from sin? So why, if I say I am looking forward to next week for a release so I don't have to release in sin and collapse back into my old habits, does that mean that I see my wife as "just a kosher masturbating tool". I don't think your comment was blunt, I think it was insensitive. Wouldn't you have wanted people to have some compassion when you were in my shoes?

I'm sorry for this outburst, I am just in a lot of physical and emotional pain. Wish you well. 

I think what HHM is trying to say (this is my humble opinion, take it or leave it) is that the goal here is yes, to be able to live without it.

I know in seems impossible, I was there too. No one said that using your wife as a "kosher masturbation tool" cannot have another component to it, i.e. becoming close to your wife. What is being suggested here is that pleasure seeking, self gratifying behavior is dangerous. The niddah period is hard but it may be one of the most powerful tools in learning that we can actually live without this (hopefully...).

I am not saying that it is easy but ideally the niddah period should be spent thinking "wow I actually can live without this" instead of "gosh when is this going to be over so that I can have my fix again". We all (HHM included, I think) look forward to mikvah night and that is the way it is supposed to be, but because we miss the special connection, not because we need our fix.

As many here are fond of saying, "there have been no reported deaths for abstaining from this". It's really hard to imagine, and believe me, I've been there but you really wont die if you don't give in.

The Vilna Gaon says that we love someone who gives us pleasure so even the "kosher masturbation tool" thingy still would create love, again that wasn't the point. The point is that if we learn that we can live without it, then being with our wives becomes what G-D intended it to be (to enjoy it but not need it).

I hope I am clear and would be happy to clarify if not. If I am totally of then please just ignore me.

I don't know for sure, but I think what your story is very similar to mine. HHM even responded in the same way and I got all defensive. I think I understand now a little better then I did then.

Looking forward to hearing from you, hatzlachah!

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup

I so appreciate you taking the time to explain for me. That was very helpful. If HHM wants to get his point across properly, perhaps he should flesh out his thought a bit more like you have. This was... wow. 

I'll tell you the truth - I am so stuck in this that such a thought is completely foreign to me. The idea that sex can be something I enjoy but don't need is so entirely removed from my experience that I cant even comprehend it. I have to give that more thought. I love that - "no reported deaths" lol. But on a more serious note - perhaps not deaths, but yes ruined lives. Inability to focus on work. Grumpiness. Lethargy etc. No? I have seen that reported many times on here by the people who simply can't hack it, time and time again. 

Also, just to clarify - when I say I look forward to the release (and youll have to trust me because i mean it) is not the physical pleasure but the ability to go back to working on staying clean from porn. Meaning until I release the compulsion to look is huge. When I do have release and am with my wife (who hasn't been able to get pregnant for a few months - that's also incredibly frustrating and upsetting) i don't feel that compulsion and can then focus on living. So i don't think it is exactly as you decsribe above. I am not "pleasure seeking". I am seeking to live properly, and being with my wife helps me do that - for her, for Hashem, and my little old self. Does that make sense? 

Thank you so much again. And would love to hear more about your story. 

There is a lot to discuss as well as a lot to digest. Don't let it overwhelm you, it takes time and as you wrote on another thread a large part of this is a change in perspective. 

The more you post the more I see similarities between us. You can take a look at my thread (the link is in my signature) but there is much more that I haven't shared.

It's hard to know for sure as everyone is different but I am pretty sure that it's across the board that people feel less "Inability to focus on work. Grumpiness. Lethargy etc." when they are able to take control then when they give in. 

I think it's been mentioned but when your desire (Y"H) tells you "if you give in just a little it will be much easier" you must know that  it's a lie. As member @Alexeliezer wrote "the more I stay clean, the more I stay clean, period". And "It takes vigorous shemiras einayim". The more you give in the more you are training yourself that you need it. The more you fight even if you fall every so often (or just plain often) if you keep on fighting and don't give up, you are training yourself that you don't need it. This is true even for the little things. 

Here is a post from @alexEliezer, guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/349644-Diary#349663 check it out, read it a few times.

Hatzlachah, keep in touch,
Wilnevergiveup

Hey and thank you so much for this message and for being there. Will take a look at your thread. TG today passed and I am still in the game! I am feeling much better now overall actually. "there have been no reported deaths for abstaining from this". This helped me a lot. I am repeating that to myself over and over again. (in addition to thank you gye thank you gye thank you gye thank you hashem for gye etc.) 

I totally agree with alex's post and the idea that its the small drinks that lead to the binge, but that's the ;point. When the YH attacks, I feel completely and entirely powerless against taking the small drinks. I feel forced, I feel that I can't breathe without it. I feel that I can't do anything else that I MUST give in. Bh right now I don't feel that, and so even thought I have bechira to look at innapropriate things, I am choosing not to. I have bechira now. In those moments I literally feel that my bechira is taken away. 

It's so funny, from my current mindspace, its funny to even write those words. Like right now I can manage this, I can get to 90 etc. But when it hits, its like I become mr. hyde. A different person. A cripple. Gasping for air. 

Anyways, thanks so much for being there. Maybe we can talk off the forum and share a bit more?

Hi TRAPPED. I am sorry if my words were insensitive and caused agmas nefesh. The reason i wrote so bluntly is because that is what worked for me to to b'ezras Hashem break free. I had to be banged over the head myself and rewire my thinking about sex. I had it all wrong. I was a very nice guy and was kind to my wife but i had to force myself to abstain quite a few times (and boy was that painful - tears and all) to once and for all get out of my head the absolute falsehood that sex is not a necessity. Yes, it is enjoyable, but there is life - good life - without it too. I wrote about my experiences on my threads - feel free to take a look.

TRAPPED wrote on 04 Aug 2020 19:23:

That's great to hear!  It's so inspiring to hear from other members how just holding on until the lust attach passes really works.  Your clean days are so precious in the eyes of Hashem.  Remember, all beginnings are hard.  The longer you continue to fight, the easier it gets to tame the Y'H.  

Hey Trapped, I hear you, I was just like you, just a while ago. I love another way Dov puts it: the addict's problem is he takes sex way too seriously. He gets really pissed off if his wife turns him down and he's constantly thinking about it even if he doesn't say anything. Deep inside he's pissed off. We are so used to it that it just feels natural and right to think we can't live without it but it isn't natural to feel that way. So I second what everybody here has been saying. You need to change your mindset around sex. It seems impossible but it's not. From what you describe your experience really does seem like a living gehenom and it sure is hard keeping clean like that if you're constantly obssessed about sex. I know I was and it felt just like you described, a daily torture. Have you listened to Dov's and Daniel's 12 step shiurim? They're really good. It's all about letting go of lust. You said you've been "poking" around. That's the whole issue. The masturbation is just the unfortunate consequence of "poking" around. You need to let go of all "poking" on the internet and fantasizing, the extra look at a woman, tv ad, or whatever. At first it will hurt. Force yourself for a week. Very agressive shmiras einyaim. And shemiras hamachshave. Bad thought comes, immediately think about something else. Doesn't even have to be Torah. Anything kosher. Do that for a week, and it will get easier. But it will hurt at first. It will seem unnatural. But give it a shot. The problem with "poking" around is that, it progressess and feeds the addiction. That's why you should focus on these "minor incidents". And do hear the 12 step shiurim. They're really eye-opening.
Anyway thank you for opening up to us, it gives me great chizuk and I'm sure you're mechazek everyone by opening up your true feelings.

Trapped - How's it going?