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There must be a way
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: There must be a way 5872 Views

Re: There must be a way 26 Aug 2020 09:56 #354225

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stillgoing wrote on 25 Aug 2020 00:42:

Captain wrote on 21 Aug 2020 17:41:

...."I am a person who is challenged by this and must be cautious and put in work, but I am not defective and permanently broke and I am not an addict for life."

That sounds much better than "I am an addict," which is usually interpreted by the person's brain as "I am an addict and I do these things always, and if by some lucky miracle I manage to reach 90 days clean, I'm still an addict and a tainted person."

Ahh, but it is a miracle.

I have a question. i assume you would agree that the classic shikur drunk who even drives drunk, or a real drug addict in a smelly alley is a bonafide addict, not just a bad habit.
Now this druggy and alcoholic then went and admitted that they couldn't stop on their own and were addicted. Then somehow they went to AA, or NA (Narcotics Anonymous), got sober and stayed sober for decades - the rest of their life.  This story has happened to hundreds or thousands of people over the last 100 years. Now here's the shayla, (it works better if you say it in gemarah tune) According to what you were saying, maybe they got some lucky miracle and stayed clean for 90 days, but how in shoshan did they stay clean for decades? They were real addicts and admitted it! It should have been a self-fulfilling prophecy, they were tainted and would always fall, yet they built great lives after that..? Good kasha,  no?

I don't think every addict has to consider himself an addict for life. 
Perhaps that is one pro of live meetings with recovered addicts. It helps you change your brains way of thinking and you realise that you can use the 12 steps to break free. 

For someone who is not going to live meetings and not practicing the 12 steps (or just the first 3), especially if he is not an addict I think this change of mindset is big help. It helps one be wary of situations that are challenging to his habit. 
Certainly helps me, and everyone should do whatever works for them.
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 26 Aug 2020 09:58 #354226

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Another 2 days clean b"h 

Out of work now and it's stressful 

Kot
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 26 Aug 2020 13:10 #354232

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Captain wrote on 21 Aug 2020 13:08:
I love this! Keep up the good work!

This is something that I always found difficult to understand. There's so much focus on viewing ourselves as addicts, but that causes us to feel that we're going to lose the battle and then we do. And we surely lack the confidence needed to fight and win.

​I know that the 12 steps mentions the need to identify oneself as an addict, and many people say that supposedly Rabbanim seemed to be saying that the person should always think he's going to lose. But is that really what they are saying, at the expense of having any confidence in out ability to fight, and at the cost that we view ourselves as people who will surely give in at some point- which will be a self-fulfilling-prophecy? Or do they really mean that we should admit that there's vulnerability and there's a problem that needs work, and that we should also be cautious and not put ourselves situations where we can fall- but without actually identifying ourselves as broken people who will never get things right?

Does anyone else find it unhelpful to think of themselves as incapable in this struggle? Because I think that needing a higher power (Hashem) and being cautious and putting in time and work for this does not contradict the fact that one needs to feel capable with Hashem's help of winning when challenged.

I like to think that I'm an addict but not in a necessarily negative sense. I think I'm an addict as I think the AA describes it as "being hyper sensitive" to the desired "thing". Same goes to the "powerlessness" to it, namely, lust. What that means is, I can't expect to watch porn and not act out. I can't expect to indulge in fantasies and not act out. I'm an addict, I'm hyper sensitive to this stuff. So what this means is, for my whole life I should make great efforts to avoid exposure to these triggering elements.
I think it's kinda like saying you're a diabetic (C"V) and thus knowing that you can't eat that cake right in front of you and you would do well to stay well away from any cakes not to be tempted to eat them. So it's not a negative thing for someone to be a diabetic, it's just a fact of life. I can be sober for my whole life as well as I suppose a diabetic can be healthy and live a long life, as long as he takes his necessary precautions. I would do well to always take my precautions.

BTW: Starting, great thread as always, please keep us posted! Your willpower is amazing.
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו

Re: There must be a way 28 Aug 2020 06:34 #354309

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Baruch hashem I am clean today

I am trying to perfect a method of downplaying the force of the urge which b"h seems to be working quite well though it is a quite new method and don't know if it will work for long. 
I wrote about it in grants 'flashes of clarity thread' 
Not sure how to link it in the phone app
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 31 Aug 2020 18:30 #354414

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I fell. 

To be honest, I kind of fell a lot last night. 

I was really not managing to fall asleep the entire night. 
Trying not to touch myself and not to fantasise, I failed many times and ended up close to masturbation many times. 
B"h I also stopped myself a bunch of times. 
At about 3:30 I had a shower and listened to a shiur from the fight. Probably my fifth time listening to part 4 in about 3 months, it's brilliant! 

After that I was still fighting, absolutely exhausted and really couldn't sleep. Another few battles, won some, lost some then I masturbate. 

So I think it was about 2 or 3 losses to 1 win. 

Not good. 
On day 14 btw. 

Don't tell me to look at the wins, I know myself a bit by know, observed myself quite closely and I should have done better. 

Upsetting but I think I'm ready for another week or two Iy"h. 

Definitely do need to keep the goal within reach, I had been striving for a month. Trying a 2 week streak. 

Iy"h 

Hatzlacha 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 31 Aug 2020 22:34 #354435

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I feel for you brother. Sorry to hear that.

I understand your frustration because I have the same thing as you. When I can't fall asleep and I'm twisting and turning my mind starts to wander. It suddenly remembers all things forbidden with a particular fondness. There's nothing to do about it because it's the night and all there is to do is sleep, but it's not working...

Battle after battle can be won, but it's endless. Eventually even the strongest resolve, even the toughest of warriors gets weakened and tired from long and wearisome battles. There's only tefila and reminding yourself again and again the reasons you must win.

It's tough but you are tougher. Hatzlacha. We are rooting for you. 

                                Grant 

Re: There must be a way 01 Sep 2020 00:39 #354444

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starting wrote on 31 Aug 2020 18:30:
I fell. 

To be honest, I kind of fell a lot last night. 

I was really not managing to fall asleep the entire night. 
Trying not to touch myself and not to fantasise, I failed many times and ended up close to masturbation many times. 
B"h I also stopped myself a bunch of times. 
At about 3:30 I had a shower and listened to a shiur from the fight. Probably my fifth time listening to part 4 in about 3 months, it's brilliant! 

After that I was still fighting, absolutely exhausted and really couldn't sleep. Another few battles, won some, lost some then I masturbate. 

So I think it was about 2 or 3 losses to 1 win. 

Not good. 
On day 14 btw. 

Don't tell me to look at the wins, I know myself a bit by know, observed myself quite closely and I should have done better. 

Upsetting but I think I'm ready for another week or two Iy"h. 

Definitely do need to keep the goal within reach, I had been striving for a month. Trying a 2 week streak. 

Iy"h 

Hatzlacha 

Keep trucking on and keep us posted! 
Your best teacher for success is your last mistake

Re: There must be a way 01 Sep 2020 09:56 #354465

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1 day clean b"h 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 01 Sep 2020 23:34 #354500

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Masturbating once in 14 days means approx 25 times a year. That's amazing - most of us it was at least 250 times a year if not more. Your attitude is good. Get up, move on, let's shoot for 20 days...b'ezras Hashem.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: There must be a way 02 Sep 2020 05:39 #354519

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Your choosing to try to push me towards specifically 20 times a year is ironic.

Before gye I was doing more than 250 a year. Over the past few months it has become much less frequent, with my record streak being 18 days clean, which I did twice. 

So, the truth is that 25 a year still feels like a near impossible achievement,  especially because falls tend to be multiple, but your number shook me. 
Once in 18 days would be 20 times a year! 

And that realization is pushing me to aim for an 18 day streak! 

HHM, I believe I've told you before, you always, and I mean always have the right thing to say. It's like the most amazing siyatta dishmaya! 

Thank you staying on GYE, I couldn't manage without you! 
Keep inspiring! 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
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Re: There must be a way 02 Sep 2020 05:48 #354520

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OMG!!!

I just noticed that if I stay clean now for an 18 day streak, it would bring me in to rosh hashana with the full 18 days behind me and rosh hashana would end with 20 days! 
If I have my record streak with me as rosh hashana starts, I will be a happy person and to beat it on r"h would be amazing! 

(Compare that to the masturbation of erev yom kippur after mikva...)

18 days, here we come!!
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number
Last Edit: 02 Sep 2020 17:47 by starting.

Re: There must be a way 03 Sep 2020 09:11 #354552

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3 days clean

Really really hope to make it clean Iy"h 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number

Re: There must be a way 04 Sep 2020 09:12 #354593

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I am really stupid. 

There was no way. 

I have been hooked on masturbation for more than half my life. 
What was I thinking, I will just drop the habit from one day to the next? 

I have not even looked at my plan for several weeks. 
How did I think that I would remember how firm those decisions were back then?! 

Of course, I wrote the plan with absolute conviction that if I use logic I know not to masturbate. 
But that entire page of meticulously written theory is by now just some distant blur in my mind. 

Why did I blow it?! 
Why didn't I read it recently, or at least remember what I was planning on doing in this situation? 

Why was I so confident? 
As if the first week or two would just come naturally.

It's a habit that has been ingrained in my routine for so many years! 


I fell. 
I have not been so upset over a fall in a long time. 

I will go over the plan and Iy"h easily clarify that i absolutely need this resolution and I will not fall for some time. 

May hashem be with us
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number

Re: There must be a way 04 Sep 2020 12:00 #354597

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I just remember something that was gold, which I myself succeed only when I practiced it , and certainly with Torah. Torah keeps you mentally conscious somehow. Otherwise... bad.
The yetzer has a door of entrance, and that is your eyes. When you let it open, that is look what should not look (mind this counts even for envious objects or neighbor courtyard), then it has the authority to exert influence on you. What impacted me seems hard to believe but is that it is his only entrance. You shut it. You are safe. If you looked inadvertently, repent, or even stared a little (I guess it comes with the degree), the evil has a few days of power to nag you. If you resist that power wades off and he is not able to nag you unless you look at some immodest or some not good thing.
Conclusion. It exclusively only has strength through your eyes. Recall Eve, she "looked" and found it desirable. If Hashem prohibited it, why even bother looking? The serpent asked that she look. Because that's the only way.
And that's it. Tested, 100 days, strides of 60 days. Torah and the eyes. Ramhal says Torah and reviewing yourself, that is in general for all averot,.
I myself am aware that fall if my eyes are not "trained" to not look and ask forgiveness at night if I do.
Also the 3 day margin of power is useful, because I tell you that it happens, 3 days aprox and the evil loses its window of opportunity till you look again. And the worst day of course is the first. So, if you look, even inadvertently, just expect a little battle. You win, and in 3 days that looking strength you gave will fade away.
It is something probably truly mystical.
No wonder this website is called "guard your eyes". They really nailed the issue.
I think it is the key. Really that and truly be with Torah daily, study it.

The only problem, is you have to A want to quit, (gye truly helps here) B. Practice it like to the extreme (till you are cured), C, keep the habit for life (maybe more moderate, but fundamentally, since for sure now our habits is on the other extreme of wrong, but of course socially nowadays totally acceptable in a lot of cultures).

Sources

1. Rabi Natan of Breslev, that learned it from Zohar Hakadosh.



The yetzer hara has no power or authority on that person, but just through his eyes


2. Sefer "Ve'ha'ir Ainainu"



(About Yoseph HaTzadik and Potiphar wife)
Not only was she relentlessly working to making him yield to her advances, but her heart was also set on getting him to somehow to look at her. The Midrash tells us that she even positioned a metal pointed roasting spit at his neck to coerce him to look at her. But her efforts were in vain.

The Medrash makes the point in several places, that the severest of his trials was in fact to avoid looking at her. Yet he stood firm. That mighty hero, Yosef Hatzadik, never once glimpsed at her. After twelve years, his purity intact, he emerged from prison and was rushed to stand before Pharaoh.

Re: There must be a way 04 Sep 2020 13:45 #354601

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Sorry starting. I promise this is the last post where I spoil your thread. I will keep it like this and that's it.

In last post, I said Ramhal approached the sins first fight in general with Torah and reviewing once actions, but in connection to our sin in case, certainly he also vowed to protect our gates. Only that not only the gate of sight, but also the other  gates. And that's it. Thank you very much starting, and all the best in your growth.

Mezilat yesharim, extracted from one of guardyoureyes.com posts.


See how wonderful these words are! The prohibition in the case of illicit relations is likened to the case of a Nazarite, where, even though the essence of the prohibition involves only the drinking of wine, the Torah forbids him anything which has any connection to wine.

By applying this principle to the area of illicit relations, the Sages prohibited anything partaking of the nature of fornication, or anything approaching it, regardless of the particular avenue of approach, whether that of deed, sight, speech, hearing, or even thought.

Deed: Namely touching or embracing and the like. This has already been mentioned and there is no need to expand upon it.

Sight: Our Sages of blessed memory have said: "One who counts coins from his hand to hers in order to gaze at her will not be cleansed from Gehinom" (Berachot 61a). And, "Why did the Jews of that generation require atonement? Because they fed their eyes on impurity" (Shabbat 64a). Also, they said, "It is written in the Torah, 'And keep yourself from every evil thing,' meaning a man should not gaze upon a beautiful woman, even if she is single, nor upon a married woman, even if she is ugly" (Avodah Zarah 20a).

Speech: It is explicitly stated: "One who converses at length with a woman draws evil upon himself" (Avot, 1:5).

Hearing: "Listening to a woman's singing is considered licentiousness" (Berachot 24a).

Also talking about and hearing licentious matters is considered "fornication of the mouth and ear." On the verse, "Let there not be seen with you a thing of nakedness," our Sages said this means nakedness of speech and the uttering of obscenities (Yerushami Terumot 1:4). Also, "Everyone knows why a bride goes to the wedding canopy, but anyone who speaks obscenely concerning it, even a decree of seventy good years is converted to evil (Shabbat 33a). And, "Even a casual conversation between a man and his wife is held up to him at the time of Judgment (Chagigah 5b).

Thought: Our Sages of blessed memory have already said that the verse, "Keep yourself from every evil thing," means that a man should not think lewd thoughts in the daytime and come to impurity at night (Avodah Zara 20b). Also, "The thoughts behind the sin are worse than the sin itself" (Yoma 29a).

We see then that all of one's faculties must be clean of licentiousness and anything relating to it.

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