Maybe when you see her, daven that she should have a nice day. By doing so you de-objectify her. You remind yourself she has her own life - bills to pay, headaches, supper to cook. She is someone's daughter, sister, mother, friend, wife... She is off limits to me. She is not a toy or object of fantasy. Where do i get the chutzpa to "tresspass" and "use" her even in my thoughts?! Now i will daven that she has a nice day....  Try it, it works. Let us know if it does the job for you.

WannabeFree wrote on 17 Jun 2018 10:49:

I'm following along and really appreciate your posts.
I can attest to the effectiveness of HHM's suggestion. There is alot of others whom this method has worked wonders.

I would like to add a suggestion.
I once saw quoted in a sefer, the reason of the Tefilas Haramba"n before relations is, since while doing the act it is very hard to have in mind Lshem Shomayim, however beforehand we can say a Lshem Yichud and designate our actions with the proper kavana.
Perhaps you can apply the same principle here. When you know you need to work with this woman, beforehand say a short prayer something to the following effect.
Ribono Shel Olam, I am working in order to do my hishtadlus to provide sustenance for my family, and to fulfill my obligations of the kesuba towards my wife. I know, I struggle with this specific woman. Please help me not be nichshol in a nisayon.

Years ago when I started using the subway often for work, in the beginning, I struggled with Shmiras Eineyin. The above helped me tremendously. Now it is a second nature, I B"H don't think twice about not looking.

Keep up your good work!
Hatzlocha Rabba!

HHM, you have already given me that advice and I've been doing it. It has helped a lot and is why I can continue afterwards normally and distract myself and sometimes I even manage to avoid looking at her altogether. I used to touch her at every opportunity and I still get triggered by thinking about that. In general I have a problem with old memories triggering me because I built up a "repertoire" of incidents that I used to recall when acting out (even before I started with porn). Now that I am focusing on being sober, I struggle to distract myself from thinking about those past incidents every day because the memories still give me pleasure.

I think I know what you mean because when I masturbate I use memories only and that has been the case for the last 15 years. My memories are getting old. In some cases they are actually old fantasies I had thirty years ago.

When you think about an old fantasy or old memory what do you generally do/think in order to let it go?

You tell yourself that Hashem put this pleasure in this world and we thank Him for it. However He gave us clear instructions how, when, and where, and with whom  to access that pleasure. So we tell ourselves, "I would really like to experience that pleasure, but not now." And one thing is certain. Whatever pleasure one has bumping into another woman, or fantasizing about past memories pales greatly in comparison to healthy, giving, and properly focused relations with true intimacy. So why settle for pennies in the first place when diamonds are available with a little patience and selflessness?

No, that's what you do. Or it's what you currently think you should be doing. But it can't be what he's doing because he says he still thinks about her.

mzl, HHM was giving me another suggestion in response to my post, not replying to your question of how I deal with it. 

Speaking of which, I have not ever been diagnosed with ADD and I don't think I have it, but I suspect that I have some light version of it. If I am not entirely interested in a subject, it is very difficult for me to focus, so if I'm working on something boring I'll check my email 100 times or go on to the forums here instead of doing the work that I need to do.

On the positive side, I think it helps me get distracted from thinking about women so I can concentrate for a minute on something else, be it an interesting plant or a dead animal on the road and my train of thoughts will take me elsewhere. I still need to put some effort in to it - pray for the woman to have Shalom Bayis etc (as per HHM's suggestions) and then actively move on to thinking about something else. I also have the rare ability to think about nothing sometimes, which (drives my wife mad, but) helps me get distracted with nothing.

HHM, I agree with the sentiments of your suggestion and some of them are easier for me to comprehend. Unfortunately I have never had a healthy relationship with my wife and have a hard time imagining how a harmonious marriage is like. Even though at the beginning of our marriage she tried hard to be a good wife to me, I did not appreciate her at all and lived in my lust world until eventually she gave up on me. There is really a lot to go in to detail about that. I'm considering starting a new thread on the baalei batim forum about it.

B"h as part of the 90 day challenge I have added touching women (on purpose) as a fall and so far it has been very good for me as there were numerous times that I would have touched women if not for the commitment. As I mentioned before it is one of the more difficult challenges for me at the moment with regards to a fall - porn and masturbation are more easily avoided.  

Day 44

I slipped numerous times. Could be because I was tired; I think that makes me drop my guard and care less about staying focused. Trouble is, I'm often and frequently tired. I have to daven a lot to Hashem to help me want to guard my eyes, because I don't really want to most of the time, even though I know it is ultimately bad for me religiously, socially and intimately. 

Day 45

Half way to 90, so I'll pat myself on the back! Here's to a better day than yesterday. ODAAT.

[quote="]"



 Unfortunately I have never had a healthy relationship with my wife and have a hard time imagining how a harmonious marriage is like. Even though at the beginning of our marriage she tried hard to be a good wife to me, I did not appreciate her at all and lived in my lust world until eventually she gave up on me. There is really a lot to go in to detail about that. I'm considering starting a new thread on the baalei batim forum about it.

B"h as part of the 90 day challenge I have added touching women (on purpose) as a fall and so far it has been very good for me as there were numerous times that I would have touched women if not for the commitment. As I mentioned before it is one of the more difficult challenges for me at the moment with regards to a fall - porn and masturbation are more easily avoided.  [/quote]
Excellent that you took the initiative to add that action as a "fall". everyone on the site has to tailor make a mehalech that works for them. You are doing just that. It keeps you focused and instead of technically guarding your eyes/bris, you are  really  doing so.

Regarding your comments about harmonious marriage. Iyh as you recover and move away from objectifying women, including your wife, you will iyh rewire your brain regarding the entire subject of sexuality. You will slowly lower the lust/selfish level, and start finding yourself on being a more giving father/husband. This will translate into a marriage where intimacy (including out of the bedroom care, loyalty, devotion, etc...) will be the focus, not sex. It will take time for your wife to take note and trust that its for real, but feel free to be in touch about what can be done to appropriately give her the message that you are changing.

The above post is my comments added to a copied previous post from WannabeFree. Somehow it was posted as if it is all from me.The first paragraph and half of the second are from him.  My comments begin in the middle of the second paragraph with the word "Excellent...."

Day 46

I managed to guard my eyes a lot better today, not looking in first place and with not taking a second look today even when there was "good reason" to. I also had an incident worth mentioning, in which I was buying a frozen yogurt for my wife (otherwise I try to avoid the ice cream shop) and I got stuck at the till in between two girls who were not paying attention to how close they were standing to me. I managed to avoid one of them, but not the other one. In the past I would have most certainly taken full advantage of the situation, but this time I got out of there as quickly as I could.

Ashreichem! True teshuva is when we are placed in the same matzav as in the past, and we overcome the challenge. We can assume k'veyochol Hashem calls over the malochim and says "chevra, look down at wannabefree - he did it! true teshuva!" You should iyh continue with hatzlocha.

HHM thanks for the chizuk! 

I've been trying another tactic lately to keep it real; in Shema Koleinu (in the morning) there is an optional paragraph to do a mini viduy, in which I've been specifying a few women-related sins. That way give myself a reminder at the start of the day to guard my eyes and mind.

Day 47-48

On Friday I had a couple of interesting "sightings" that keep on popping in to my head and on Shabbos I had one interesting dream that has been doing the same. Oh well, keep on ignoring them I guess. Otherwise Shabbos went quite smoothly, as I hardly left the house.

Day 51

B"h still keeping it up. Wanted to share the good news that I got a job and will be starting next week. I have been out of a job for 5.5 years! I can't know Hashem's thoughts, but I reckon that keeping clean and sober and trying to guard my eyes seriously for the first time in ages has something to do with it.

Another point I'd like to mention is that I haven't watched any movies or tv series for 2 weeks so I'm sure that has helped a lot with not being triggered.

Way to go! Shemiras habris is a channel for parnassa. It says about Yosef  "V'Yosef hoo hamashbir".  Keep up keeping those eyes holy from all inappropriate stuff. Hatzlocha with the new job.