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The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 52018 Views

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 25 Nov 2018 00:22 #337450

  • Hakolhevel
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I saw this post quoted by markz in the depressed person chill spot. I wanted to remember it so I am posting it on my thread.
1dayatatime wrote on 05 Apr 2010 23:44:
"How to do a real slip"

This post is for those who are thinking about slipping. It will explain how to do a full, complete, genuine slip. Now make sure you read all the directions before you have your slip. Don't cut corners!

The first thing to do is to notify those in your life that are going to be affected by your slip. If you have a special someone in your life, such as a spouse or fianc?, you must tell them before you slip that you are going to do so. This will save time after the slip and allow them to start feeling bad sooner. It will also save all that silly time wasted in the "cat and mouse" of uncovering your slip. Now if you really want to go the extra mile you might punch them in the gut or spit in their face, just to make sure they understand where you are coming from. For those of you with children, though, you should not tell them ahead of time. Kids much prefer to be "surprised" when their world is shattered. Besides, their crying and whining might kill the buzz of your slip. It's a matter of setting priorities, right? You must also be sure to tell your friends. Traditionally this isn't done directly. Let them find out you are a schmuck one by one surreptitiously. That will make the agony drawn out for everyone. How much more fun could that be? How and when your boss and coworkers are informed is a matter of some debate. Some think the loss of respect should start as soon as possible. Others think it should come as a bolt out of the blue. I won't take a position but leave that for each to decide for himself. However, sooner or later your employer and colleagues must be allowed to know. Otherwise you are selling your slip short. Last, and certainly least, you must let the P providers know that you are in the market for more poison. They would find out soon enough. But just to make it obvious you might put a "sucker" button on or a "kick me" sign on your backside.

Now that all the notifications to your loved ones and acquaintances are done, you must take care of the fiscal matters. Go to the ATM and withdraw all the money you can. Now burn it. I know you might be thinking, "that's meshuga!" But your slip will cost you plenty of money and you need the practice of wasting the money. There is no such thing as "free P". Sooner or later P will cost you a ton of money. Sometimes the costs aren't direct. Sometimes it takes the form of divorce costs, alimony and child support, therapy, etc. But slips will cost you money. Those that have a problem with having a fire can use the garbage disposal or a toilet as an alternative method for the money destruction. The important thing is that the money must be totally wasted and destroyed. If the cash withdrawal caused your checks to start bouncing you earn "extra points." If your rent or mortgage payment bounces you are really making a statement!

Ok, the people and fiscal aspects are set, next we need to discuss the logistics. If you use your computer as your P delivery mechanism of choice, you must prepare it. Secure a sledgehammer. Immediately after your slip take the sledgehammer and destroy your computer. This is to ensure that your computer becomes useless. Often P introduces computer viruses and other junk to make it useless. But sometimes this doesn't happen soon enough. That's where the sledgehammer comes in as the backup. Speaking of backups, do NOT make any backup of your computer disks before destroying it. That will make the loss of your files an added "bonus". If you don't think you are physically strong enough to destroy your computer with a sledgehammer then pouring a can of softdrink or a cup of coffee into the computer has been used as an alternative method. If you use magazines or printed materials instead of the computer, leave them out in the open afterwards for everyone to see them. Don't hide them, you should be proud of them. Extra points if you write your name on them in big bold letters and indicate whose they are "property of".

Last we should take care of the physiological aspects. Get a blunt object. If you used a sledgehammer to destroy your computer it is possible to use that as the blunt object. Now right after your slip whack yourself in the genitals.  :o I know that seems harsh and extreme. But it is necessary to get the full effect. After all, P usage and slips should eventually lead to ED. The whack should be done to try to simulate that. Right now some of you are shaking your head saying to yourself, "I'm not doing that." I understand your point of view. You might be thinking, hurting others, wasting money and destroying my computer you can handle, but you are drawing the line at a shot to the gonads. All I can say is if you really, really want to have all that slip entails it has to be done.

By now, some of you are wondering if you can "cut corners". Perhaps have a slip without some of these "benefits". Others have tried that, but until you have done a full on slip you haven't done a complete one. That means you really have only two choices. Either you keep practicing slips until you get it done fully and completely or you stop slipping. Others of you are now reconsidering whether a slip is worth it all. I can't argue against that, because that's actually right. So now the choice should be clearer. Now what's it going to be: keep slipping until you get it all, or quit slipping?

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 27 Jan 2019 04:26 #338669

  • Hakolhevel
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Two great lines from dov's shovavim talks.

"The best filter is the one you don't test"

"Installing a filter and testing it is like walking into a movie theater and asking your friend to cover your eyes for all the dirty scenes. What are you doing in the movie theater?"

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 28 Jan 2019 01:07 #338690

  • Hakolhevel
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There is a recurring theme regarding recovery wherever you look, weather its sa, pa or gye. Our problem was not lust rather life. We could not Handle life therefore we turn to lust.

For some turning to lust eventually ( or possibly they where always wired that way, doesn't really make a difference) turns into a addiction, for others it may just be a very strong habit.

For those that are addicted and turn to the twelve steps. My understanding is the twelve steps also help a person deal with life, which makes lust not necessary.

But what about a person like me ( assuming I'm not an addict) I feel like I can possibly hold off on the lust, but my life is also unmanageable without it? Is there a program or a way for the non addict to make their life " managable"

In theory anybody can do the twelve steps, but my understanding is, unless someone really needs them, they won't do them properly. 

I may be totally off the mark. If I am let me know, and if you have something you can share with me, by all means please do.

Thanks in advance.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 28 Jan 2019 07:45 #338695

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I personally got pretty confused by other people telling me I am or am not an addict, so I'm not here to do that...just sharing my experience.

For me, it got to the point where my life was unmanageable due to lust, yet I could not stop. I tried for so long to stop on my own but I couldn't. As you say, my problem was life, lust was how I dealt with life, but without something to replace my coping mechanism, there was no way I could stay stopped. But I need to stop, because life is unmanageable! So I try again, thinking this time will be different, and before long, the cycle repeats itself... to quote the Big Book: "All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals—usually brief—were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization."

I may not "measure up" to other addicts in terms of unmanageability and extreme behaviors - my acting out has been primarily limited (so far) to the screen and myself, and I never lost a job or anything due to my acting out. But I saw progression, I crossed boundaries that I thought I never would, I couldn't bear life anymore, I tried everything to stop on my own, and lust wiped the floor with me every single time. So I do believe and accept that I am an addict and completely powerless over lust, and it's through the 12 steps that I've been learning a new way to live.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 28 Jan 2019 16:29 #338703

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actually its the opposite
needing them isnt what makes them work
the steps only work when i want them.
the steps can definitely help your 'dry drunk - white knuckle' pains.
the only hurdle you might face in the steps is in step 1 because you don't believe you are really an addict...which means you can stop of your own will and dont need a relationship with Hashem to do it. (which is obviously not true but this is how the liar/addict lies to us - but you can still admit powerlessness over lust and that when you lust life becomes unmanageable.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 29 Jan 2019 01:41 #338713

  • cordnoy
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Hakolhevel wrote on 28 Jan 2019 01:07:
There is a recurring theme regarding recovery wherever you look, weather its sa, pa or gye. Our problem was not lust rather life. We could not Handle life therefore we turn to lust.

For some turning to lust eventually ( or possibly they where always wired that way, doesn't really make a difference) turns into a addiction, for others it may just be a very strong habit.

For those that are addicted and turn to the twelve steps. My understanding is the twelve steps also help a person deal with life, which makes lust not necessary.

But what about a person like me ( assuming I'm not an addict) I feel like I can possibly hold off on the lust, but my life is also unmanageable without it? Is there a program or a way for the non addict to make their life " managable"

In theory anybody can do the twelve steps, but my understanding is, unless someone really needs them, they won't do them properly. 

I may be totally off the mark. If I am let me know, and if you have something you can share with me, by all means please do.

Thanks in advance.

So, why don't you just hold off on the lust?
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Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 29 Jan 2019 02:25 #338716

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cordnoy wrote on 29 Jan 2019 01:41:

Hakolhevel wrote on 28 Jan 2019 01:07:
There is a recurring theme regarding recovery wherever you look, weather its sa, pa or gye. Our problem was not lust rather life. We could not Handle life therefore we turn to lust.

For some turning to lust eventually ( or possibly they where always wired that way, doesn't really make a difference) turns into a addiction, for others it may just be a very strong habit.

For those that are addicted and turn to the twelve steps. My understanding is the twelve steps also help a person deal with life, which makes lust not necessary.

But what about a person like me ( assuming I'm not an addict) I feel like I can possibly hold off on the lust, but my life is also unmanageable without it? Is there a program or a way for the non addict to make their life " managable"

In theory anybody can do the twelve steps, but my understanding is, unless someone really needs them, they won't do them properly. 

I may be totally off the mark. If I am let me know, and if you have something you can share with me, by all means please do.

Thanks in advance.

So, why don't you just hold off on the lust?

I am for now. But I don't know what to do with my life. Life has lots of stress, where as in the past I would act out, now most of the time I put my head in the sand .sleep or get busy with other things and I don't deal with challenges because I am frightened of them.

This also makes me feel unfulfilled, because  now I have the time to do the right thing and deal with life problems (because I'm not acting out) and I'm just waiting time. I might check clean news sights or watch clean movies too ften, just trying to kill time. 

I guess in other words, I used to blame all my life's problems on my acting out (and at the same time life wasn't too stressful because I had my enjoyable lust)

Now I have to face real life, and I can't blame my not getting things done and dealing with life on my acting out, because I'm not acting out.

Hence my question how do I deal with life. 

I suppose that's a hard question for people here to answer who only know me virtualy.

Thanks cords for the clarifying question.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 29 Jan 2019 02:31 #338717

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Thanks gs and lb. Although I understand your answers to be pretty much the twelve steps.
which is of course your experience and I'm happy it has worked for you.

However i know there are many on here who are clean without SA ( people like wg and hhm come to mind) and twelve steps.

Assuming they also find life difficult without lust, what have they done.

Even if something is just a habit, it takes time to learn to live without. I don't think every mechalel shabbos is addicted to melachah on Shabbos. Yet when they start to keep shabbos, many of them have a hard time living without their "Saturday".

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 30 Jan 2019 19:46 #338744

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So well said. What have I done? I’ve had my share of struggles, even while “clean”, but what works for me is staying away from stimulating things. When I succeed the most, I stay far from any sites I don’t completely belong on.



What about life? It’s a problem; there’s still plenty of background noise, frustration, tension, and anxiety. I would love an outlet to run away to, but instead, I don’t, and just have to deal with life as is.



As a result, my marriage has improved greatly, my learning has improved tremendously and I’ve reviewed old learning and finished a few masechtas because of the extra time off the complete. But there are plenty of times where I’m aching to go look at inappropriate images, or to test my filter, or to masturbate. And those come strong when life is the most challenging, and I haven’t found a way to deal with life comfortably in those moments. I don’t act out, but I’ve come close. 






 

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 30 Jan 2019 23:09 #338747

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I think we all come close to acting out when we are stressed.

But the key is to recognise this, and know that what we really want is nto to act ut.

But to handle the stress by a positive reaction, and to do something fulfilling rather than get our "junk food" fix.

When you are so stressed, try to plan life in 10 minute chunks.
Really, break it down to that.
Say "In the next 10 minutes I will read."
"In the next 10 minutes I will listen to music"
etc 
Always have a plan.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 13 Feb 2019 02:50 #338934

  • Hakolhevel
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 So... At 90 again.

To be honest, I did have a a slight bump in the road at one point where I looked at things I shouldnt have, however being as I had a deal in place that would not allow me to be MZL, the looking proved more painful then enjoyable. If you can't act on what you see, eventually you have to make a desicion. Stop looking or act out. Thankfully I chose the latter.

So I guess you can say having a red line helped.

What created the red line? It was a deal I made with someone, that if I act out HE will have to pay money to a wasteful cause.

Although I can choose to act out and pay the price myself, I could not see myself causing my chaver monetary loss for my pleasure.

Life is still not easy, and I am missing my soothing drug. 

I Pray to hashem that he helps me find happiness in the life he has chosen for me.

Final thought: After reaching 110 a while back, and then falling, I thought I would never get back. Yet persistence and trying new things has boruch Hashem helped me.

Dont give up and may hashem send his blessings to all of my dear chaverim at gye.  Thank you, I could not have done it without you.
Last Edit: 13 Feb 2019 02:51 by Hakolhevel.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 13 Feb 2019 12:46 #338937

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Well done.

And it is great that you tried new things, new methods to stay clean.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 17 Feb 2019 04:24 #339005

Hakolhevel wrote on 13 Feb 2019 02:50:
 So... At 90 again.

To be honest, I did have a a slight bump in the road at one point where I looked at things I shouldnt have, however being as I had a deal in place that would not allow me to be MZL, the looking proved more painful then enjoyable. If you can't act on what you see, eventually you have to make a desicion. Stop looking or act out. Thankfully I chose the latter.

So I guess you can say having a red line helped.

What created the red line? It was a deal I made with someone, that if I act out HE will have to pay money to a wasteful cause.

Although I can choose to act out and pay the price myself, I could not see myself causing my chaver monetary loss for my pleasure.

Life is still not easy, and I am missing my soothing drug. 

I Pray to hashem that he helps me find happiness in the life he has chosen for me.

Final thought: After reaching 110 a while back, and then falling, I thought I would never get back. Yet persistence and trying new things has boruch Hashem helped me.

Dont give up and may hashem send his blessings to all of my dear chaverim at gye.  Thank you, I could not have done it without you.

Congrats on making it to 90 days! Also, I think that’s a clever twist on the “taphsic/give money if I I fall” idea. 

I want to focus on one element of what you said; regarding thinking that you would never “get back” when you fell after being 110 days clean (which is really awesome btw). What do you mean by “get back”? Do you mean get back to a certain number of days (90)? When you have a certain number of days does that mean you let yourself feel good about yourself and not until then? I know I feel like that sometimes. In truth, that’s a real erroneous mindset to have. When you fall off a bike, do you make a judgement call about who you currently are as a person, or do you (correctly) recognize that you were just in a situation (going around a sharp turn) where your skills (in that moment at least) were not sufficient to keep you balanced and on your bike. So too, it’s very tempting to think that when we fall it’s because we are horrible people... Maybe it’s just because we were in a situation where we lacked the skills to respond in a healthy way... Consequently, when we are clean for a certain amount of time does that mean we have become a paragon of morality? Or does it simply suggest that over this past time we apparently had the skills necessary to respond healthily (more or less) to life? I think there is a huge focus here on days, which is important when starting out, but sometimes we need to graduate, and while maybe checking in once and a while with how long it’s been, instead turn our main focus to living life and what’s most important to us, whatever that might be. 

P.S. I’m sort of talking to myself and probably (unjustly) used your post to write this, so I actually apologize for that. But what are Internet forums if not places where people commit such egregious acts of impropriety? 

Wishing you all the hatzlacha in the world,

IHAVEnoSTRENGTH

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 17 Feb 2019 04:57 #339008

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Thank you Ihavestrength. 

Although we may have to call on the internet police for the horrific crime

As to your statement regarding days, it is a very valid point, does 90 days Mean I'm better or maybe it's just better circumstances?

In my case what I was referring to was not neccecerily the 90 day mark, but sustained sobriety. I could not seem to gain any traction. And although we should not be super focused on days, if there is a pattern i think there is what to be worried about. My real worry was not right after losing the 110, but after that consistent falls after 2 or 3 weeks. 

To be even more honest, I was afraid continuous falls would mean I would need to go in SA. While that may not be a terrible thing, it would be the next step (in my mind) if i could not sustain sobriety otherwise.

So In short, i don't know where you are holding in life, but to me if sobriety is not being sustained, (and there is a pattern) its time to try something else, or take your recovery to a whole new level.

Re: The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:) 19 Feb 2019 03:28 #339059

HH, 

Very true. That makes a lot of sense. If we find that there seems to be a pattern of regressing (going back to falling more often, for example) it is wise to reconsider what we are doing and seek help, if needed, in order to gain clarity on the proper direction to take.

I was mainly cautioning on the danger of focusing on days unduly, as well as putting too much weight on a single slip or fall instance. It is best to look at patterns of behavior when building a strategy and not get distracted by a single data point. The trouble with resetting a sobriety count is that it leads some to assess their progress using a single data point rather than keeping a healthier, broader point of view.

(I was sort of hocking in the above paragraph, for which I apologize for once again.)

Best of luck going forward.
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