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Journey of life
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
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TOPIC: Journey of life 52879 Views

Journey of life 07 Sep 2017 05:10 #319944

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Hi all, first post here.

I've been lurking on GYE for the last year or so. I've logged in a few times but never actually did much with it. I'm sure my situation is not unique but I haven't seen any posts that specifically address my matziv, so here goes...hope this is considered appropriate for this forum.

First a little background: I'm in my mid-20s, from a "regular", frum family. Been through the yeshiva system, currently working.

I've struggled with lust since I was kid, and I guess it just never really let up and I never did anything about it. I've always recognized that it's a terrible thing and made a few attempts to kick the habit but nothing came of it. I've NEVER mentioned my struggles to anyone, I'm not a very open, heart-on-the-sleeve type of guy in general.

But aside from that, I've come to realize over the past year or so that I have a much bigger underlying problem: I have no connection to hashem or yiddishkeit. I believe there's a god and I believe judaism is the only true religion; I've heard all the speeches and I've seen all the R' Leib Kelemen/Daniel Mechanic/Dovid Sapirman etc stuff. But there is no connection. I just want to run away from it all like an angsty OTD teenager. The last year of my life has been hell as I realize I'm living a complete lie, and I constantly feel empty and alone. There's just a void in my heart that gets deeper every day. Not to mention all the mounting pressure about shidduchim (I haven't started, and don't see myself ever getting married for these reasons, unless something changes)

I don't mean to turn this into a psychological help forum, but I feel like I need to address all this before starting to work on breaking free from lust. I'm spiritually empty - unless I fill the void first, I don't think I'll ever succeed.

Like I said, I'm not an open, publicly-emotional person and haven't shared this with anyone. In fact, this is the first time I've put my feelings into words. But the thought of talking to someone in person about this is totally foreign and absolutely terrifying to me.

Has anyone been or know someone in a similar situation? Any advice, comments, questions etc. is very appreciated!
Last Edit: 20 Aug 2019 03:40 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 05:40 #319945

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Join the club. Many of us have experienced the same.

Great first post especially if being open doesn't come naturally to you. Honest and courageous. You will iyh be helped here.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 06:00 #319946

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As was written on the chat, this is how our thoughts progress.
we feel disconnected when we think we are fakers hypocrites reshaim and losers we find out that many nice frum normal otherwise healthy successful people struggle with this  we start to realize that this aspect of our lives does not define us. we are good people who have a weakness. we keep other mitzvos. we want to be good but we beat ourselves up so much about this issue that we view ourselves as rotten cursed and worthless we cant even begin to help ourselves because we are so low, so hated by Hashem. If others would know who we really are they would vomit and run away  we expect to receive the worst hell after 120 and our escape mechanism is to shut down and stop caring  yiush sets in and its downhill from there. Hashem hates me anyway. My ancestors in shomayim are embarrassed from me

Sorry that I didn't copy more from the chat but you got the idea
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 06:20 #319947

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Join the club. Many of us have experienced the same. 

Great first post especially if being open doesn't come naturally to you. Honest and courageous. You will iyh be helped here.



Thank you.
It wasn't easy to write. I've officially been a member here a year...it took about that long to work up the courage to post this.
Last Edit: 07 Sep 2017 06:21 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 10:54 #319949

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I'm not a very open, heart-on-the-sleeve type of guy in general.

But aside from that, I've come to realize over the past year or so that I have a much bigger underlying problem: I have no connection to hashem or yiddishkeit.



Welcome brother



Amazing dov recording posted yesterday (below) where he elaborated on the point that if you cannot open up honestly to another person, there is NO WAY that you have a connection to an invisible Gd



So what you wrote first is the BIG underlying problem.

Maybe call a close rebbe and ask him what to do about the big problem, and other problems will fall away too ;-)



[checkout dov calls, and his recordings are at [url]guardyoureyes.com/kosher-isle/shiurim/category/dov-s-recovery-talks[/url] ]
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Last Edit: 07 Sep 2017 11:13 by Markz.

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 11:08 #319950

Welcome fellow Lakewooder/Lakewoodian

Nice share for a first post
In my humble opinion you should give Dov a call he is very experienced in this matter
You can email him to get in contact his email is on the site by the phone conferences 

Hatzlacha and keep on posting we are here for you

(I'll be in Lakewood around Sukkos if you want to meet maybe we know each other!) 
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 14:20 #319955

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Welcome brother

Amazing dov recording posted yesterday (below) where he elaborated on the point that if you cannot open up honestly to another person, there is NO WAY that you have a connection to an invisible Gd

So what you wrote first is the BIG underlying problem.

Maybe call a close rebbe and ask him what to do about the big problem, and other problems will fall away too ;-)

[checkout dov calls, and his recordings are at [url]guardyoureyes.com/kosher-isle/shiurim/category/dov-s-recovery-talks[/url] ]


Thanks. I guess that makes sense but it's kinda disheartening...I don't really have anyone I can open up to

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 14:22 #319956

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Welcome fellow Lakewooder/Lakewoodian

Nice share for a first post
In my humble opinion you should give Dov a call he is very experienced in this matter
You can email him to get in contact his email is on the site by the phone conferences 

Hatzlacha and keep on posting we are here for you

(I'll be in Lakewood around Sukkos if you want to meet maybe we know each other!)


Haha thanks. I'm not actually from Lakewood, was just in yeshiva there....

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 17:48 #319958

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Hi Brother.
Thank you for opening up, it will only bring you closer to hashem, talking to people, listening to people, and getting chizuk from each other.
listen, when we live the life we lived before working on our struggles, it only makes sense to have all this kind of thoughts, its very normal when you live a double life to have all kind of questions, and feel like a piece of garbage, and a liar.
start working on your issue, this place is THE place to work on it, i was struggling for many many years on the same problem, and finally the last half year im doing BH great, thanks to the members of GYE... so, please get yourself a partner with whom you will be very very open, every detail, so he will be able to help you on every step, read the GYE hand book, post and read on the forums, use the chat option.

You will do great, im positive, because im doing great, and all of these thoughts will dissolve, promise….

Stay strong buddy….

My email:jacdoja@gmail.com
My threads: my long נסיעה of almost 30 years ~ My Book of Business ~ My Upcoming Dilemma

להטות לבבנו אליו ללכת בכל דרכיו ולשמר מצותיו וחקיו ומשפטיו אשר צוה את אבתינו
כי עיקר מציאות האדם בעה"ז הוא רק לקיים מצות ולעמד בניסיון,  והנאות העולם אין ראוי שיהו לו אלא לעזר ולסיוע בלבד לשיהיה לו נחת רוח ויישוב הדעת למען יוכל לפנות לבו אל העבודה הזאת מסילת ישרים

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 19:36 #319971

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Welcome!  Many of us have been in your situation, at least parts of it.  I was terrified and never told anyone until my wife caught me.  I wish I had gotten help sooner, but you are right, it is terrifying.  Posting here may make it a little less terrifying.  You can post and see that you are understood.  You can see that you don't die of embarrassment.  Take it one step at a time.  Get comfortable here.  Read the handbook.  Keep posting.  Maybe at some point you will feel comfortable enough to speak to someone on the phone.  One step at a time.  And yes, I'm sorry to say they will be uncomfortable steps, but they will be worth it.  Just ask anyone who has taken those steps.  I never wanted my wife to catch me, but my life has dramatically improved since she did (after I went through a small period of hell on earth - but I digress )

Anyway, you have taken a small step which is really a BIG step.  It is the beginning of your journey.  Don't look back, and NEVER EVER GIVE UP!

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 20:56 #319973

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congrats on opening up
the fact that you,'re feeling empty about feeling empty is a good thing.
and going otd will only make things worse.in the secular world you will get alot of thoughts and prayers and thats about it.out there nobody gives a damn.
i think a good first step would be to set aside 5-10 minutes every day to talk to g-d,tell him your struggles.ask him for help.tell him you want a relationship.
i'm not talking about during davening,but at a quiet time and place.and no i'm not a breslover

Re: My sorry state... 07 Sep 2017 21:17 #319974

Yes, I agree: from what I can see it's not abnormal to be worried about an all-consuming spiritual crisis and addiction, if it's addiction. Listen to the Dov calls and read the book. If it's addiction, you have a lot of support here to face it. Your relationship to Gd will inevitably change in ways you can't imagine if you commit to the recovery program. That's what I found, at least, and I thought I understood where I stood in my spiritual life. I didn't. Stay strong!

Re: My sorry state... 11 Sep 2017 02:47 #320082

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thank you all for the supportive words and advice.
I hope to keep checking in here...still not quite sure where to start but I guess just being involved is an improvement

Re: My sorry state... 14 Sep 2017 19:50 #320270

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Hi great letter.
i dont want to be nosy at all, but have you seen a psychiatrist before? its sounds from your letter that you might be suffering from depression. feeling empty and numb definitely can be systems of depression. 
i suffered from depression and anxiety for a decade before realizing. so if its a possibility then please help yourself and dont be stubborn like i was. 
  

Re: My sorry state... 15 Sep 2017 05:02 #320290

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hopfulshimon wrote on 14 Sep 2017 19:50:
Hi great letter.
i dont want to be nosy at all, but have you seen a psychiatrist before? its sounds from your letter that you might be suffering from depression. feeling empty and numb definitely can be systems of depression. 
i suffered from depression and anxiety for a decade before realizing. so if its a possibility then please help yourself and dont be stubborn like i was. 
  

Hey, thanks.
I'm pretty sure you're right. However the problem I have with seeking help is that I'm unable to open up to anyone. Like I wrote, just typing out this post with all my issues and struggles was an ordeal.

Having to discuss it, in-person, face to face with another human...I just can't.

Re: My sorry state... 15 Sep 2017 11:20 #320295

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Lifebound, sometimes we just have to jump in even when it's a tad (or even more) uncomfortable. Many many people here will attest to the fact that a big chelek of their success was due to opening up to others. (And especially if a therapist or psychiatrist is necessary.) It really works. I feel for your pain and i commiserate with your reluctance to open up. But let me ask you. If there is a 50% chance that sharing will make the difference, isn't it worth it?
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 16 Sep 2017 23:54 #320334

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Lifebound

I am from a very different background to you.
I have never set foot inside  yeshiva.

But one question.
Have you ever done daily Hitbodedut...daily chatting to Hashem, mixed with improvisational prayers?

If not, try it. Start with a couple of minutes per day. See how it goes.
Some people eventually do this for an hour per day.

Re: My sorry state... 18 Sep 2017 02:21 #320391

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Sep 2017 11:20:
Lifebound, sometimes we just have to jump in even when it's a tad (or even more) uncomfortable. Many many people here will attest to the fact that a big chelek of their success was due to opening up to others. (And especially if a therapist or psychiatrist is necessary.) It really works. I feel for your pain and i commiserate with your reluctance to open up. But let me ask you. If there is a 50% chance that sharing will make the difference, isn't it worth it?

Oh, you're absolutely right. If this was just a logical decision then I'd have no argument. Unfortunately it's not that simple...
That being said, I don't mean that I will never speak to a therapist. I'm quite certain it will make a world of a difference. I hope as I continue opening up here and getting comfortable with sharing, the idea of therapy will become at least tolerable. This is all still so foreign to me I just can't fathom the idea of baring it all with someone in person yet.

Re: My sorry state... 18 Sep 2017 02:23 #320392

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ColinColin wrote on 16 Sep 2017 23:54:
Lifebound

I am from a very different background to you.
I have never set foot inside  yeshiva.

But one question.
Have you ever done daily Hitbodedut...daily chatting to Hashem, mixed with improvisational prayers?

If not, try it. Start with a couple of minutes per day. See how it goes.
Some people eventually do this for an hour per day.

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. I haven't but know people who do.

Re: My sorry state... 18 Sep 2017 03:33 #320396

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Why not try it?
Two minutes per day.
You have nothing to lose.

Re: My sorry state... 18 Sep 2017 14:06 #320407

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Maybe try Dov's phone call.  It may help you feel more comfortable.

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 02:27 #326206

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Well, it's been a while but I'm back. Time for another shot at this...

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 05:05 #326213

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Welcome back. It should be with hatzlocha.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 05:40 #326214

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 31 Jan 2018 05:05:
Welcome back. It should be with hatzlocha.

Thank you. Your previous kindness and support has not been forgotten

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 10:32 #326224

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Welcome!.. back!

I heard a story about a Rav who would answer people's deepest question in less than a minute. Someone came to him and said, "I don't believe in Hashem."
The rov just turned to him and said, "okay, so what?"
The guy replied, "Well I can't sleep at night!"
The rov replied, "There you go. If it's bothering you so much, you obviously believe in Him." 

Stuck with me, haha. And you seem like someone full of bother. Oh bother. It's good, you beautiful neshama.

I think instead of trying to fix your distance problem first and then dealing with the lust, addressing the lust issue would heal the connection to yourself and others.

Distant from Yiddishkeit?

In the past month(s) I have mulled over eating treif, throwing it all away etc. I have failed to get up for shacharis a lot and even days past without putting on tallis / tefillin. My learning is rigid and shot and I feel unhappy and broken from my community and lack of connection with people even after having sincerely tried. 
If not for my amazing wife and kids and great job and sobriety I don't know where I'd be. 

PS I know I just contradicted myself in saying addressing the lust would heal the connection problems, but maybe I'm a different version of you.
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 10:47 #326228

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hi welcome just saw this thread for the first time so welcome 
how are you doing now what is going on in your life?
do you have illusions about connections?
i did 

like a bridge over troubled waters


my stuff

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 16:24 #326237

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Hey singularity, thank you. That's a good story and you're right, I know it bothers me so there's definitely still something there. I totally relate to what you write about feeling distant. I'm not married and honestly refuse to get married while living this lie. I know you say your wife and kids are what keep you going, but I feel it would be irresponsible and plain wrong to marry someone while in this state. Anyways, I've been a mopey mess the last few years...not great husband material, even I wouldn't want to marry me!

I think all of us here are different versions of each other, to an extent...


Hi tzomah, nothing really has changed since my original post. I'm not sure what you mean by illusions about connections? connections to God? If that's what you mean, yes absolutely, I came to the realization 1-2 years ago that my connection was an illusion, at least to myself...still putting on a show for everyone else.

I spoke to a friend the other day who had a shidduch suggestion...he kept saying things that were meant to be encouraging and inspiring, but were completely off the mark. Things like, "You have such a solid foundation in your yiddishkeit!" and "Someone like you who comes from a stable home and family, what do you have to complain about?" and "you never put on a show, you always do what's right without caring what others think!" He meant well but it was just painful to listen to. Almost comical. I guess I'm a good actor. 

Anyways, I'm ranting. But there you go.

Re: My sorry state... 31 Jan 2018 18:00 #326242

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RANT AWAY
that's what we're here for,just a quick question.hows your physical fitness.i know afew guys that had various personal issues.and the more they tried to not think about them that inevitably led to them thinking about it all the time.being that you're single I'm assuming you might have more free time than most of us,Wich probably leads to way too much thinking. A intense workout and/or  training (boxing, jujitsu,etc.) On a daily basis,will free your mind for at least alittle while each day.with the added benefits that come along with exercise,and yes a healthy body does wonders for a not so healthy mind. (It does for me when I have the time.) . 
May hashem grant you the koach and sechel you so crave to overcome your struggles

Re: My sorry state... 01 Feb 2018 01:02 #326262

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Meier wrote on 31 Jan 2018 18:00:
RANT AWAY
that's what we're here for,just a quick question.hows your physical fitness.i know afew guys that had various personal issues.and the more they tried to not think about them that inevitably led to them thinking about it all the time.being that you're single I'm assuming you might have more free time than most of us,Wich probably leads to way too much thinking. A intense workout and/or  training (boxing, jujitsu,etc.) On a daily basis,will free your mind for at least alittle while each day.with the added benefits that come along with exercise,and yes a healthy body does wonders for a not so healthy mind. (It does for me when I have the time.) . 
May hashem grant you the koach and sechel you so crave to overcome your struggles

I'm definitely not phyically fit. Been working on that for a while. I try to exercise every day but nothing intensive like boxing. Maybe I should try that.

Re: My sorry state... 01 Feb 2018 11:22 #326279

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I heart running. It's fun, it's free, it's fast. And you can reach an euphoric state whereby you feel you can run forever. It's a drug for sure.

LB, You say you wouldn't get married in such a state. I hear. Though marriage did wonders for me. Sometimes the responsibility pushes you beyond what you thought possible. Do you want to get married for a non-religious reason? ie the thought of building a family is nice? Or you want singlekeit for a little longer? Neither answer is wrong or right. But I'm just suggesting that marriage isn't totally out of the question. And heck, maybe your bashert will be struggling with the same stuff! I find my wife and I struggle in similar ways but it gives us a lot more ways to connect
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


Introduce Yourself and get a free karma point from yours truley!
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Re: My sorry state... 01 Feb 2018 12:18 #326284

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my question was do you have an illusion of what a connection with god is?

i used to think there was supposed to be fireworks coming from his end 
when that wasn't happening and when i stopped fooling myself that it was
i thought that the fireworks gotta come from me when those died out
oy vey i found porn
now i started to realize aint know need for fireworks it's about creating an honest open relationship that is sometimes good and sometimes bad but it can always be a relationship 

imho the fact that you can be open and honest about this is a great first step and shows your core that is huge 
if you feel this is irrelevant to you just ignore it (i don;t want to be like that friend i understand that feeling)

like a bridge over troubled waters


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Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 02:10 #326317

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Singularity: I'm not against the idea of getting married in general. It definitely has appeal, and the idea of growing old and dying alone is...unpleasant. But I just don't see how it can be compatible with my current state. Aside from the SA problems, I don't consider myself mentally healthy for the commitment of marriage. And of course the fact that I feel like I'm living a lie. Can't imagine telling someone on a date, "yeah, so life has no meaning for me, I don't care about God, and I'm frequently depressed. Oh, and I'm a porn addict. Wanna spend the rest of our lives together?" It just wouldn't be fair to the poor girl...

Now, that isn't to say that I need to be perfect before getting married. But I need a lot more work. And that's why I'm here.

On a more mundane note, I wish I could run it sounds amazing but I'm too overweight for that, my knees would probably pop after a block...I've been stationary-biking for the last few weeks but it's not the same as getting fresh air. I should just go walking.


tzomah: I don't think I have that illusion as you describe but that's an interesting thought. I never expected fireworks from either end. God is just there but...hidden. I don't really doubt that He exists. I just never built that relationship as you describe. That worked fine for ~15 to 20 years when I was on autopilot but eventually you're gonna run out of steam and ask, what's the point?

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:19 #326325

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Hi lifebound,
just read your feed. I feel your pain. I don’t know you, but I do know that there is a very intelligent, well-meaning fellow yid in his mid-20s that is really letting potentially amazing years slip away, and that hurts me.
you started out saying how you’re uncomfortable sharing and being open, and then you left GYE for a couple months and now you’re back. have you made progress with the idea of opening up?
i really really think that you have to get yourself some real-person help.
let me ask you a question: if you were in a situation of pikuach nefesh and the only way you could survive was by doing something very painful? Would you not do it?
i really think that this is how you should be viewing this situation.
youre young! And you have a whole life ahead of you! 
You have to just close your eyes and walk into a therapists office, pretend you’re the only one in the room, and let it spill out. It sounds like there’s so much more going on underneath the surface that you have to uncover. 
I wouldn’t worry about not having a connection/believing in Hashem.
it sounds to me like you’re in a place that you’re really unhappy about. Unhappiness leads to depression. And when depressed it is extremely extremly hard to connect to anything.
i don’t know the exact lashon, but the Seforim say that Avodas Hashem can only come out of simcha.
you have to get that simcha back into your life.
and I think a great way to do that is to find a real person to sit down with and talk about your past, uncover your pain.
by doing this, you’ll hopefully be able to set a perspective on where you’re holding right now, build a more positive perspective for your future and set some goals: such as lose weight with exercise, get involved with healthy things that give you enjoyment, improve relationships with friends and family, start being open with the people you care about
and then iyh I really think this path could lead to a place where in a year from now you’re in a place where you’re happy with yourself and ready to date.
yes, you have to take some concrete steps in working with lust: filters, gye, perhaps a partner
but I think the key is to sit down with someone who you can work some things out about your past that are inevitably weighing you down.
please fellow yid, we want to see you get this turned around.
we want to see you start taking positive steps for the better.
we want to see you be happy.
we want to see you be in a place where you feel you’re ready to build a home.
 You have to take the step and get help. There’s just too much at stake here.
Dont let us down

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:39 #326326

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Hakol said it all. Lifebound, we care about you and want to see you relieved from your pain. If you are not ready for a therapist do you have a rebbi, rav, or close friend you can share with? And one point - if you are concerned with the embarrassment - doesn't being on this site prove to you that large segments of our community struggle with pornography, depression, and everything else related to this parsha?
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:48 #326328

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Hey HakolMilimala, thanks for taking the time to write this big dose of encouragement. I read your thread and though you are actually apparently a bit younger than me it sounds like you have way more real-world experience in this. Reading your story really drove home your point of the power of therapy. As I've been saying all along I totally agree with everything you're saying. Logically it makes perfect sense and it's going to have to happen.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:52 #326329

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:39:
Hakol said it all. Lifebound, we care about you and want to see you relieved from your pain. If you are not ready for a therapist do you have a rebbi, rav, or close friend you can share with? And one point - if you are concerned with the embarrassment - doesn't being on this site prove to you that large segments of our community struggle with pornography, depression, and everything else related to this parsha?

No, I don't really have anyone to share with. But like you say it's obvious how widespread an issue this is. The stigma is strong though.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:54 #326330

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Ok great. 
Yes im young. You caught me lol.
It’s actually one of the things I’m self-conscious about quite often. Many times I feel that I may have what to say, but perhaps it’s not my place to give input to someone older than me.
but one thing that I’ve learnt.
Don’t look at young old, big or small, chashuv not chashuv.
We can all learn a lot from each other.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:57 #326331

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HakolMilimala wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:54:
Ok great. 
Yes im young. You caught me lol.
It’s actually one of the things I’m self-conscious about quite often. Many times I feel that I may have what to say, but perhaps it’s not my place to give input to someone older than me.
but one thing that I’ve learnt.
Don’t look at young old, big or small, chashuv not chashuv.
We can all learn a lot from each other.

Of course. I hope it's ok that I wrote that, I did NOT mean to make you self-conscious. By the time we're past a certain age, it's just a number. It's the experience that counts.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 05:59 #326333

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lifebound wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:52:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:39:
Hakol said it all. Lifebound, we care about you and want to see you relieved from your pain. If you are not ready for a therapist do you have a rebbi, rav, or close friend you can share with? And one point - if you are concerned with the embarrassment - doesn't being on this site prove to you that large segments of our community struggle with pornography, depression, and everything else related to this parsha?

No, I don't really have anyone to share with. But like you say it's obvious how widespread an issue this is. The stigma is strong though.

You are assuming that it needs to be someone who you have a history of opening up with. Well being that you have never opened up before, how exactly would you have that?
Well that’s not who it has to be. All you have to do is choose someone who is experienced with life and are comfortable shmuzing with. Then you have to make one of the hardest decisions by deciding you’re going to speak to this guy without boundaries and call him and ask him to talk.
i can promise you, there is literally few better feelings in the world of opening up to someone. It is literally like taking a thousand pounds off your shoulders. It is very liberating.
You’d be surprised how often rabbanim are approached by someone that hasn’t opened up to them before who just lets it all out to them. Most of them are very very used to this, and super caring and eager to help.
Its up to you.
You have to take the step.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:07 #326334

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:39:
Hakol said it all. Lifebound, we care about you and want to see you relieved from your pain. If you are not ready for a therapist do you have a rebbi, rav, or close friend you can share with? And one point - if you are concerned with the embarrassment - doesn't being on this site prove to you that large segments of our community struggle with pornography, depression, and everything else related to this parsha?


No, I don't really have anyone to share with. But like you say it's obvious how widespread an issue this is. The stigma is strong though.


That's the beauty of GYE. There is no stigma. Amongst us we RESPECT those who have come here, spilled the beans, shared all the gory details, and humbly asked for help. We believe these are from the best people in the world - focused on recovery - becoming better people, giving people, G-dly people. We look at each others pasts in awe - and inspire each other. Join us. Let out the big dark monstrous secret, study it, and find out it is a definable challenge that can be conquered.



Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:10 #326337

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 06:07:

That's the beauty of GYE. There is no stigma. Amongst us we RESPECT those who have come here, spilled the beans, shared all the gory details, and humbly asked for help. We believe these are from the best people in the world - focused on recovery - becoming better people, giving people, G-dly people. We look at each others pasts in awe - and inspire each other. Join us. Let out the big dark monstrous secret, study it, and find out it is a definable challenge that can be conquered.


Oh, I know there's no stigma here. This is the best place on earth. If there was any stigma here I'd be looooong gone.

I'm talking about the great big outside world, where people can't help but be judgmental. Not saying that as an excuse to not get help. It's just another mental hurdle for me.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:17 #326338

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Ok. So With these mental hurdles, you have to figure out what exactly is scaring you about it
in your case, “I am scared of being judged”

now, ask yourself, why am I scared of being judged? What is the worst case scenario? Can I even be sure that I will be judged? Can I even be sure there will be a bad scenario? What am I so scared of? what do I even have to lose?

really think about it for a few minutes, and think about it honestly, and let us know.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:21 #326339

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HakolMilimala wrote on 02 Feb 2018 05:59:
You are assuming that it needs to be someone who you have a history of opening up with. Well being that you have never opened up before, how exactly would you have that?
Well that’s not who it has to be. All you have to do is choose someone who is experienced with life and are comfortable shmuzing with. Then you have to make one of the hardest decisions by deciding you’re going to speak to this guy without boundaries and call him and ask him to talk.
i can promise you, there is literally few better feelings in the world of opening up to someone. It is literally like taking a thousand pounds off your shoulders. It is very liberating.
You’d be surprised how often rabbanim are approached by someone that hasn’t opened up to them before who just lets it all out to them. Most of them are very very used to this, and super caring and eager to help.
Its up to you.
You have to take the step.

You are correct that I don't have a history of opening up to anyone, but my point is I don't really have anyone who is as you say, "experienced with life and are comfortable shmuzing with."

I've been thinking for the last few months actually that the only person there might be is a rebbi of mine from Israel, and that I should go visit and speak to him. If I'm going to speak to him I think it would be better in person. He's an amazing person and has a heart of gold, and I know he would be eager to help. He just doesn't always have the right responses...but you say it's the act of opening up that's liberating, so that shouldn't be a concern I guess.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:21 #326340

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lifebound wrote on 02 Feb 2018 06:10:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 06:07:

That's the beauty of GYE. There is no stigma. Amongst us we RESPECT those who have come here, spilled the beans, shared all the gory details, and humbly asked for help. We believe these are from the best people in the world - focused on recovery - becoming better people, giving people, G-dly people. We look at each others pasts in awe - and inspire each other. Join us. Let out the big dark monstrous secret, study it, and find out it is a definable challenge that can be conquered.


Oh, I know there's no stigma here. This is the best place on earth. If there was any stigma here I'd be looooong gone.

I'm talking about the great big outside world, where people can't help but be judgmental. Not saying that as an excuse to not get help. It's just another mental hurdle for me.

So start with people from GYE. They, you agree, wont look down at you when you open up and share.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:26 #326341

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 02 Feb 2018 06:21:
So start with people from GYE. They, you agree, wont look down at you when you open up and share.

Absolutely, that's why I'm still here talking to you guys, soaking up the genuine empathy.
From my first post on this thread until now, there's definitely a difference in how I feel sharing on here.  

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:27 #326342

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I've been thinking for the last few months actually that the only person there might be is a rebbi of mine from Israel, and that I should go visit and speak to him. If I'm going to speak to him I think it would be better in person. He's an amazing person and has a heart of gold, and I know he would be eager to help. He just doesn't always have the right responses...but you say it's the act of opening up that's liberating, so that shouldn't be a concern I guess.


Great idea! First of all you will be relieved to hear that you are not a rasha or loser. And you will finally get that anxiety producing secret off your chest. Your rebbi has probably dealt with this numerous times.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 06:39 #326344

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HakolMilimala wrote on 02 Feb 2018 06:17:
Ok. So With these mental hurdles, you have to figure out what exactly is scaring you about it
in your case, “I am scared of being judged”

now, ask yourself, why am I scared of being judged? What is the worst case scenario? Can I even be sure that I will be judged? Can I even be sure there will be a bad scenario? What am I so scared of? what do I even have to lose?

really think about it for a few minutes, and think about it honestly, and let us know.

Let me give you a personal example. I was working with a therapist about my relationship with my mother.
The therapist asked me: Why don’t you speak to her and voice your requests of her/ concerns about her current way of acting?
i said that I could technically do that and I think it would work but that there is something blocking me from doing that and I’m not sure what it is.
therapist asks me to think about it and try to define what could be blocking me
i closed my eyes and thought about it and suddenly a lightbulb hits
i say that since I know that if I do that, I will potentially repair our relationship, I don’t want to do that. I say that I am storing a lot of anger and resentment towards her and I feel like I will be rewarding her by repairing our relationship.

you can’t understand how powerful of a feeling that moment is unless you’ve experienced it yourself.
for years I had no clue why I wouldn’t just work on repairing the relationship. No clue. And the only problem was that I had never thought about it. Now this is something that is very hard to do on your own. You need someone asking you the right questions.

now, look at this example, it turned out that perhaps my mental hurdle was very well backed. It wasn’t for no reason.
but by speaking out and defining the true reason behind the mental hurdle, I was able to work on the root of things and begin to heal, begin to come to terms with some of the anger and resentment and begin to become more comfortable with the concept of repairing the relationship.

i think you can have a similar process when it comes to opening up.

and yes, I do think that even if the rebbe might not have the perfect responses, just the fact that you opened up will do wonders and set you on the right path.
i also think that once you open up to one person that you respect and care about your relationship , it will only steamroll into more healthy interactions like that.
Last Edit: 02 Feb 2018 06:51 by HakolMilimala.

Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 12:29 #326349

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it looks as if lifebound is getting more comfortable
way to go we are rooting for you

like a bridge over troubled waters


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Re: My sorry state... 02 Feb 2018 13:25 #326352

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Dear Lifebound,
Perhaps you can start a private chat with someone here. You can spill everything you want to, NO ONE will know. You can tell or not tell whatever you want in a non threatening way. Even though it's a total stranger, just opening up will help.

Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 03:51 #326380

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HakolMilimala: Thank you for sharing your personal experiences with this.
I think the answer to your original question is simply that I care way too much about what other people think about me. The worst case scenario is...discomfort? I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I know it's wrong and illogical but it's probably something that itself requires therapy to address properly.

tzomah: thanks I definitely am.

Yerushalmi: I've been private chatting with a few people. Like i said above it helps and is getting easier.


To sum it up, y'all are right and I know it. The more you reiterate it the more it penetrates my thick skull and hopefully soon I'll just say, screw what anyone else thinks, and get the help i need.

Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 04:28 #326386

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Yes. I think that that day will come iyh very soon. I’m praying for it. I think you’re having some self-fulfilling prophecy over here. You admit it’s only discomfort. So c’mon, you gotta give it a try. Obviously, opening up is not an end in it of itself, but I think it’s a very logical first step to getting things turned around. I know that after I speak to someone, I feel rejuvenated and motivated to change.

Sometimes, you just need some motivation. Step back and look at where you’re holding today. Is that really what you dreamed of when you were in teens? Is that where you imagined you’d be? Wouldn’t it of scared you? 

Well, I think it’s up to you to reclaim your life.
Don’t let it slip any further away. You can get to a much better place. It just might take a little sacrifice, discomfort and sweat. 

But its going to be SO worth it.
And YOU know that, right?

So hey, today’s the first day of the rest of your life. Let’s get going! 

Like tzomah said, you got a team rooting for you here.

Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 13:34 #326406

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HakolMilimala wrote on 04 Feb 2018 04:28:


Sometimes, you just need some motivation. Step back and look at where you’re holding today. Is that really what you dreamed of when you were in teens? Is that where you imagined you’d be? Wouldn’t it of scared you? 

Well, I think it’s up to you to reclaim your life.
Don’t let it slip any further away. You can get to a much better place. It just might take a little sacrifice, discomfort and sweat. 

look at sukkah daf nun gimel amud beis

like a bridge over troubled waters


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Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 18:07 #326420

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tzomah wrote on 04 Feb 2018 13:34:
look at sukkah daf nun gimel amud beis

Looked it up, I'm not seeing the connection?

Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 22:14 #326431

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lifebound wrote on 04 Feb 2018 18:07:

tzomah wrote on 04 Feb 2018 13:34:
look at sukkah daf nun gimel amud beis

Looked it up, I'm not seeing the connection?

sorry it's the top of amud aleph that a baal teshuvah is someone who uses his older age to fix what happened when he was younger
i thought it fit what hm was saying about what you thought would be in your teens etc.

like a bridge over troubled waters


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Re: My sorry state... 04 Feb 2018 23:13 #326433

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oh ok I see it now, thanks

Re: My sorry state... 06 Feb 2018 21:25 #326561

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Welcome back! Never ever give up!

Re: My sorry state... 12 Feb 2018 03:06 #326847

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Hey everyone.

Random question: Around the summer of 2016 there was a story in the "Lifelines" section in Mishpacha magazine about a person with internet addiction. I believe GYE was mentioned by name. That story is what pushed me to make an account here. (My register date is June 2016) Does anyone have a copy of that story?

I had a bad fall yesterday and need all the inspiration I can get.

Re: My sorry state... 13 Feb 2018 08:44 #326923

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lifebound wrote on 12 Feb 2018 03:06:
Hey everyone.

Random question: Around the summer of 2016 there was a story in the "Lifelines" section in Mishpacha magazine about a person with internet addiction. I believe GYE was mentioned by name. That story is what pushed me to make an account here. (My register date is June 2016) Does anyone have a copy of that story?

I had a bad fall yesterday and need all the inspiration I can get.

Found it: 
guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/289575-Mishpacha-Magazine-Lifelines-Story-about-GYE#289575

guardyoureyes.com/media/kunena/attachments/3202/mishpachalifelines-doublelife-june12016.pdf

Re: My sorry state... 13 Feb 2018 15:03 #326933

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@Lifebound glad you found the article, but after reading your story sorry to be so blunt i feel you will need to take some more bold steps than just an article in Mishpacha to get sober and out of your depression like opening up to someone, (fellow GYE members could be a great 1st step)

As a fellow bachur in shidduchim i understand the pressures which you are going through, i was in a pretty similar situation to you but b'h i opened up to my rabbeim, keep in touch with fellow GYE members and went to therapy and now baruch hashem have been sober for 50 days and i'm feeling more confident and better as i'm going through the real tough parsha of shidduchim in fact i'm going on a date tonight (please daven for me that hashem should help and guide me through this real tough and emotional decision, and help me make the right decision) C'mon we are all rooting for you! feel free to reach out

 Lots of love Yankele (a fellow bachur your age with similar problems in life!!!!)
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes

Re: My sorry state... 13 Feb 2018 17:33 #326937

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Hi Yankel yes of course. I dont expect the article to keep me clean. I just wanted another reminder of why I joined in the first place.
Everything you wrote is right on the money. I don't know what else to say. I know I need to take the steps to get out of this pit with the help of others...

hatzlacha on your date tonight.

Re: My sorry state... 14 Feb 2018 12:26 #326970

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lifebound wrote on 12 Feb 2018 03:06:


I had a bad fall yesterday and need all the inspiration I can get.

Hi Lifebound.
I have been in similar situations as you! I would have a fall, and then feel terribly guilty about it! I'd wander around the halls of the yeshivah, hardly learning a word. Of course, with all that guilt, I'd say to myself, I'm hopeless anyway, why bother, and then I'd do it again, and again, and feel more depressed....and so on.
It was, and still is very hard to break out of that cycle. (I am married for 13 years so far, and still find it hard.)
Here are some thouhgts/ideas that helped me:

1) Hashem LOVES me, and is rooting for me. HE wants me to win. HE is on my side. HE is happy (כביכול) when I win. Every victory, no matter how tiny, is important to him. There is no such thing in HIS eyes as "what's the point?" If you have 100 diamonds in your pocket, and you discover that there is a hole, and 80 of them slipped out, would you say what is the point, and let the rest slip out?
2) I heard in the name of R. Shimshon Pincus, that every time we overcome a nisayon in these areas, that creates a big עת רצון! If you know somebody, a relative or close friend, who is in need of parnassah or a רפואה שלמה, dedicate your fight to that person. Say to yourself that in so and so's merit, I WILL WIN this fight this time. A few years back, when missiles from Gaza were falling over Israel, and air raid sirens were going off all the time (I live in Jerusalem), when faced with a challenge, I said to myself that klal yisroel needs a zechus now, I CAN NOT do this now. I was able to stay clean for a while using this tactic. 
3) You say "What's the point", yet you get depressed over a failure. That means that there is a point. If you really felt that it's pointless, you wouldn't feel guilty about it. On some level, you feel that there is a point, and that's why you feel upset over failing. Deep down, you know that you do care, and you do want to do the right thing. 
4) There are a few pesukim in Koheles that describe a king besieging a city. An old wise man saved the city, but everyone forgot about him. Chazal say that this is a moshul for the מלחמת היצר. If we analyze it, it says that everyone forgot about him. That means that when faced with a battle, we can forget about the past. Previous losses are of no account right now (we will have to do teshuvah for them, however). If we lost the battle yesterday, it has no impact on today's fight. We clear the record for each fight. If we don't the yetzer hara definitely acts this way. If we won the fight 100 times, he still comes back at us anew. He is undeterred by 100 failures, and still goes at it with no holds barred. So should we!
5) Hashem provides us with nisyanos that we can pass. HE knows exactly what we are capable of, and pushes us to the limit. But not beyond that limit. Sometimes it seems that there is nothing we can do, but there is. Hashem knows how hard and how strong and for how long we can fight. It is a very difficult, but fair, fight. When gripped by a strong ta'aveh, daven right them and there. Something along the lines of "Hashem, this fight is very hard. I don't know if I can win, please fortify me, so that I can do what you want me to do". I can't tell you how often I was saved by this. Often, Hashem's answer is subtle. It may be an infusion of strength, or it may be a subtle distraction that causes us to look the other way for a while. 
6) You know what situations cause you to stumble. Whether in bed, the bathroom, or the shower. Avoid those situations like the plague! If you can't, find tricks to minimize the fight. If I sleep without a blanket, I know that I won't do anything, (I was in a dorm) because anyone can see. Avoiding the fight COUNTS AS A FULL FLEDGED WIN!
I hope this helps!

Re: My sorry state... 14 Feb 2018 17:11 #326976

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@Yerushalmi: Saved this to my phone. Thank you.

Re: My sorry state... 15 Feb 2018 05:43 #326992

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Yerushalmi, your post is gadlus.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 15 Feb 2018 05:55 #326993

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Feb 2018 05:43:
Yerushalmi, your post is gadlus.

It really is. I nominate this for Post of the Year.
Seriously, I feel like this should be stickied somewhere. It's well-written, clear, and gets right to the point.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 03:04 #327265

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Hi friends. I'm sharing this here in the hopes that it may provide clarity to those who can relate. I'd love to hear any thoughts or feedback.

I'm BH at 11 days clean, and while that feels pretty good, I've been feeling pretty low the last week or so. I feel lost and unsure where this journey would lead, how to keep it going, whether I'm considered an addict or not, etc. It took a while to pinpoint what was bothering me but I think I nailed it down. I sent an email to a fellow member with my theory and he responded very positively, saying it put into words what he had felt all along, and he suggested I post it. So here it is.
------------------------

I mentioned last night when we spoke that, as selfish and stupid as it sounds, I wished I was an addict. Or rather, I wish I had the self-awareness, honesty and sense of belonging that I perceive addicts have, more so than non-addicts.

Today after giving it some thought I came to a realization where this might be stemming from. I know I'm not an openly emotional person. I do think I am internally emotional, but sharing emotions and feelings with others is something I've never done. I do have 2-3 close friends...we enjoy each others company, enjoy hanging out, speak the same language etc...but that deep emotional bond is not there (at least, we never acknowledged or experienced it). But in the last few months, especially the last few weeks, I've opened up and connected emotionally to others in ways that I've never before experienced.

So here's what I think is going on: I'm drunk, in a sense, on this connection. I've found people on GYE that relate to my darkest secrets, who I can openly discuss things with. Again, I've NEVER done that until the last few weeks. But now that I know what it's like, I want more of it. I want that soul-level connection and the camaraderie that comes with it. If calling myself an addict will achieve that, then, I tell myself, that's what I wish to be.

This would also explain another weird thing I've been doing: I've been obsessed with GYE itself. I check the website constantly, hoping to find a new post or hoping someone will reach out so we can chat. Or if I see someone new joins, I'll immediately send them a private chat or PM. Not that that's a bad thing, I think I've helped some people, but it bothered me why I was so desperate to connect to others on there. Now I think I know why.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 03:14 #327266

I relate to this almost exactly 

Personally the only reason I have not joined this elite group is because I feel it will do more harm than good and I would use the meetings to get my fix
Not saying you are doing this but make sure that you honestly need this and are not finding another way to get your fix

KOMTNMW
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 03:51 #327268

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MayanHamisgaber wrote on 22 Feb 2018 03:14:
I relate to this almost exactly 

Personally the only reason I have not joined this elite group is because I feel it will do more harm than good and I would use the meetings to get my fix
Not saying you are doing this but make sure that you honestly need this and are not finding another way to get your fix

KOMTNMW

Hey Mayan thanks.
I'm assuming by "elite group" you mean addicts? If so then yes, from what I've read and heard from others here, the full addict regimen is generally not a good idea for non-addicts, although there is what to learn from both sides of the coin. Workingguy said it better than me in this post: guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/310838-My-Book-of-Business?limit=15&start=465#322535

Regarding my own situation, from hearing the complete powerlessness and lack of control the way addicts describe it, I don't think I have it quite that bad. In some ways yes, but in others not. I'm not entirely sure what my "label" is. Currently I have no plans to join meetings. I'm sure it would help with the loneliness and desire to feel connected but I don't know that it's what I need for my actual lust recovery. When you say you'd use meetings to get your fix, you mean the meetings themselves would be a trigger for you?
Last Edit: 22 Feb 2018 04:09 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 04:03 #327269

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Very well said, when we have a void in our lives we will look for something to fill that void.i heard from my therapist that one of the tools he often uses to figure out what's bothering someone is by asking him what kind of pornography he watches based on the type that he watches very often he could figure out which kind of void he is trying to fill in his life. So it's great that you were able to pinpoint the void that you are trying to fix in your life.

btw congrats on the 11 days. I love your desire, to truly get to understand yourself and became extremely Self Aware. KEEP IT UP!

 Love Your Dear Friend Yankel 
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 04:37 #327271

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Thanks Yankel. I've never heard that technique. Very interesting.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 05:08 #327275

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Lifebound has put into words so eloquently what I have felt for a long time. Here I am, a people person, and I am harboring this massive load inside of me which cant be shared with my closest friends. Oh the loneliness! Along comes GYE and I get to intimately know some guys. We share very personal issues - such a relief. There is no inhibition; we say it all. Because we have not actually met our "new friends" they take on a spiritual level. Our relationship transcends outward appearances, religious leanings, social/financial status, age, married/single status, etc. 

Recently I met a GYE chaver for the first time after speaking over the phone for many months. We live many many miles apart but he had travelled to the area where I live for a business meeting. The hug we gave each other as a greeting was so genuine, so natural, so automatic, and so real. It was like meeting a long lost brother. We understand each other so well. We have been so transparent with each other.  Our neshamos are bonded.

Regarding the obsession of accessing the GYE website. We all get obsessed on recovery. For the first time in our lives we actually start to see that maybe maybe we can break free. We feel desperate that we just have to learn more and more as fast as possible. Secondly we finally taste connection - and we cant get enough of it. Maybe someone on the chat will be able to listen to me, share with me, connect with me in that real and meaningful way.

By the way, regarding that chaver I recently met - The connection is so real that it does not matter that we may not see each other again for a long time. And it does not even matter that I do not know his real name. I didn't even think of asking.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 05:20 #327276

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Very true Post! I felt the same way when i met you and chat with you! It's funny even though I don't know your name it doesn't matter. I feel more of a connection with you than some of my friends who i've been friends with for years! 

And another thing i love is that over here i could  show my true feelings and finish all my posts with  :kissing_heart:Love Your Good Friend Yankel in real life it will be kinda weird!

:kissing_heart:Love Your Good Friend Yankel
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes
Last Edit: 22 Feb 2018 16:02 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 14:32 #327289

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my therapist gave me the contact information of a fellow person in recovery a few weeks ago whom I have yet to call, so he asks me why haven’t you called?
i say oh I haven’t had time
he says I think there may be more to it
and I think about it and I tell him that I feel uncomfortable calling because I’m just some kid who’s watched some porn and who said this guy has time for me.
two key thoughts there I’m not worth it and I have to appear perfect
so I thought I could share the idea of his response with you:
This is not a contest, whether you have used porn 30 times or 300 or 3000, whether you have gone to behaviors beyond porn/ real life encounters, whatever it is, we are all going through a very similar struggle in many many ways. Whether or not you label yourself as an addict, don’t worry about that right now. If you believe that being in contact with people and building a network helps you, then by all means, go for it! If you believe that you don’t need to go to SA meetings, then ok, but that doesnt mean that you can’t join a network of people that are in your boat.
Last Edit: 22 Feb 2018 15:54 by HakolMilimala.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Feb 2018 19:34 #327300

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lifebound thanks for shearing you have a great point and HakolMiliala is right, not everyone addict or not has to go to SA meetings, i my self was/em a lite addict but joining a network/group that are in the same boat that can give advise and that i can contact with people and have this relationship like Hashem help me has put so beautifully has help me amazingly and even when one of my partners suggested that i should go to SA and i spoke to the group leader he told me that if something else is working for me i shouldn't go to SA, but one thing everyone seems to agree here what ever if we need SA or not,  is that the gye connection system that you can  make a true relationship that you can say all your feelings can help a lot!  hazlacha on what ever path hashem takes you!    

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 00:09 #327323

lifebound wrote on 22 Feb 2018 03:51:

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 22 Feb 2018 03:14:
I relate to this almost exactly 

Personally the only reason I have not joined this elite group is because I feel it will do more harm than good and I would use the meetings to get my fix
Not saying you are doing this but make sure that you honestly need this and are not finding another way to get your fix

KOMTNMW

Hey Mayan thanks.
I'm assuming by "elite group" you mean addicts? If so then yes, from what I've read and heard from others here, the full addict regimen is generally not a good idea for non-addicts, although there is what to learn from both sides of the coin. Workingguy said it better than me in this post: guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/310838-My-Book-of-Business?limit=15&start=465#322535

Regarding my own situation, from hearing the complete powerlessness and lack of control the way addicts describe it, I don't think I have it quite that bad. In some ways yes, but in others not. I'm not entirely sure what my "label" is. Currently I have no plans to join meetings. I'm sure it would help with the loneliness and desire to feel connected but I don't know that it's what I need for my actual lust recovery. When you say you'd use meetings to get your fix, you mean the meetings themselves would be a trigger for you?

No the meetings themselves would not be a trigger and I would like to meet some other gye family members again (I attended an O.I.N.K. meeting once and met two heavy weights) 
The trigger for me would be when the sharing started of the struggles and the load down of their life story for whatever step that is
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 00:51 #327327

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Right sorry that's basically what I meant. The meetings and detailed sharing that go along with it.
What's an O.I.N.K. meeting?

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 00:55 #327329

Our Israeli Nikkium Klan
It has a thread somewhere the name says it all
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 00:59 #327331

Found it click here
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 02:00 #327334

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MayanHamisgaber wrote on 23 Feb 2018 00:59:
Found it click here

Reminds me of a song



Here an oink there an oink. 
Old McDonald says "Make my farm great again"
My Story---------Dov Quotes


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Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 02:26 #327335

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Markz wrote on 23 Feb 2018 02:00:

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 23 Feb 2018 00:59:
Found it click here

Reminds me of a song



Here an oink there an oink. 
Old McDonald says "Make my farm great again"

Drain the pigsty

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 03:19 #327338

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HakolMilimala wrote on 22 Feb 2018 14:32:
my therapist gave me the contact information of a fellow person in recovery a few weeks ago whom I have yet to call, so he asks me why haven’t you called?
i say oh I haven’t had time
he says I think there may be more to it
and I think about it and I tell him that I feel uncomfortable calling because I’m just some kid who’s watched some porn and who said this guy has time for me.
two key thoughts there I’m not worth it and I have to appear perfect
so I thought I could share the idea of his response with you:
This is not a contest, whether you have used porn 30 times or 300 or 3000, whether you have gone to behaviors beyond porn/ real life encounters, whatever it is, we are all going through a very similar struggle in many many ways. Whether or not you label yourself as an addict, don’t worry about that right now. If you believe that being in contact with people and building a network helps you, then by all means, go for it! If you believe that you don’t need to go to SA meetings, then ok, but that doesnt mean that you can’t join a network of people that are in your boat.

This is very pertinent, thank you for sharing yet another nugget of wisdom. I do think a network of people would be helpful. I'm under the (possibly wrong) impression that joining SA is an "easy" way to build a network, because it already exists. You just drop in, and boom, you're connected to a network of like-minded people. So in that sense, SA sounds great. But if SA as a program for recovery is NOT what I need, than that whole route is off the table and I need to build the network of people from scratch. It also doesn't help that I'm in an out-of-town community.

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 03:28 #327339

Start by texting/calling the good fellows here and you will see how quickly things develop 
you might be surprised 
(don't worry about how to start this just express an interest and they will let you know how to contact them)

good luck 
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h











very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 03:42 #327340

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MayanHamisgaber wrote on 23 Feb 2018 03:28:
Start by texting/calling the good fellows here and you will see how quickly things develop 
you might be surprised 
(don't worry about how to start this just express an interest and they will let you know how to contact them)

good luck 

Yes that's exactly what I did! BH I'm happy to report that I'm building what I hope will be a solid network. Just in the last week or two I've progressed from texting/chatting to voice calls to (gasp) actually meeting someone in-person and talking openly about my struggles face-to-face for the first time in my life. It feels surreal.

If you don't remember how resistant I was to the whole talking to other people thing, just go back a few pages and remind yourself 

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 04:54 #327348

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here a vid that explains it well about being connected people how it helps SA and other addictions   gye.vids.io/videos/7c9bd1be1915eac5f4/04-everything-we-think-we-know-about-addiction-is-wrong

Re: My sorry state... 23 Feb 2018 05:22 #327354

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danann@ wrote on 23 Feb 2018 04:54:
here a vid that explains it well about being connected people how it helps SA and other addictions   gye.vids.io/videos/7c9bd1be1915eac5f4/04-everything-we-think-we-know-about-addiction-is-wrong

thats a great video, thanks for posting it

Re: My sorry state... 25 Feb 2018 03:58 #327423

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Thanks alot to Lifebound for his articulate expression of what many of us feel...
I would suggest that perhaps this is the meaning of Chazal's instruction וקנה לך חבר...
Although i think that opening up to "real-life" friends might be more effective then anonymous ones...

Re: My sorry state... 25 Feb 2018 04:08 #327425

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OivedElokim wrote on 25 Feb 2018 03:58:
Thanks alot to Lifebound for his articulate expression of what many of us feel...
I would suggest that perhaps this is the meaning of Chazal's instruction וקנה לך חבר...
Although i think that opening up to "real-life" friends might be more effective then anonymous ones...

You're welcome I hope it was helpful. I agree with you 100%. Opening up to friends here on GYE is made way easier with the knowledge that they share your struggles, and with the element of anonymity. Much harder to develop in-person friendships with that level of connection.

Re: My sorry state... 25 Feb 2018 04:16 #327426

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especially experienced members of gye to talk over the phone or texting them, and eventually meeting them i think is best, and make them your "real life" friends to open up to, because not always (which is most cases i think) your real life friends not from gye are equipped and understanding of are situation.  hazlacha on the path hashem puts you on:) 

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 07:58 #327784

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Been a while since my last post, I think it's time for an update

The good:
- I'm 23 days clean. That's definitely a record.
- After days and days of trying to filter my rooted/custom-ROM-flashed phone, I gave up. The filters I tried were either useless because of root, or wouldn't even install. (rooting is basically the process of getting "admin" access to your phone's kishkes. So you have full control and can modify stuff at the system level.) The only option was to wipe it, unroot it, and reinstall the factory settings. Took a few hours but I just did it tonight and now I've got Netspark up and running on my phone. Still gotta figure out how it all works but so far it seems solid.

The not-so-good:
- I'm happy to be 23 days clean but it's getting harder, not easier. In the beginning it was simple to just say no and push it off. Now I've got 3 weeks of accumulated urges bottled up. I can't help but feel the whole 90 days thing is a glorified delay tactic...somethings gonna give way sooner or later. The lust is still alive and well. I found this post in the Dov Quotes thread that describes the feeling exactly:

If you feel the pressure building until you can't take it any more - you are holding your breath. If you feel calm and serene (most of the time) and don't feel like you are about to explode - you are in recovery.

If you are holding your breath, you will eventually act out cuz you can't hold your breath forever. You will know .

...so that's worrying. I haven't felt calm and serene at all. I don't feel like I'm doing anything to address the underlying issue, whatever that is.
Last Edit: 06 Mar 2018 08:00 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 08:39 #327787

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Keep it up,there is no Navi who could tell usYOUR GONNA FALL,your building up your muscles every day ,hour, minute etc.your lust is thrashing in death throes,your accomplishing ALOT !and a lot of us are watching you and getting hope that we too can get off the ground ,hatzlacha!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 12:07 #327792

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The "pressure" although intense, is imagined. It took me a long time to realize this. It comes from the false belief that i am going to eventually have to masturbate anyway. Why "fight" if anyways you are eventually going to lose? But in truth there is no actual physical NEED to ejaculate. Once a person REALLY believes that, the pressure diminishes tremendously. Secondly, 23 days is in the middle of when withdrawal hits. Your body/subconscious crave the "drug". Replace it with something kosher and healthy. For me, that was exercise. You owe it to yourself to either exercise or find some other release to get you over the next few days. You, as many before you have done, can do it with serenity. Although it is true that it is very helpful to address underlying issues, that is a process which takes time and work. Dont use the fact that "there are underlying issues that need to be resolved" as the excuse to act out. Of course start working on that, but in the meantime until you do, you most definitely can stay clean with Hashem at your side. May Hashem give you hatzlocha in both endeavors.
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Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 13:59 #327796

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Yes, 90 days by itself is a delay tactic.
but it can give you time to work on things. You write that you don’t feel like you’re working on the underlying issue, whatever that is. Well I think the first step to being able to work on it is to try and figure out what it is. So my suggestion is to do a lot of self thinking. When you get an urge, think right then, which feelings/thoughts are causing this.

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 14:59 #327801

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1st of all congratulations on your 23 days that is amazing Keep it up ODAAT! I just reread all your posts from the beginning and it really is amazing to me how much you have grown from your 1st few posts where you pretty much said you just can't do anything, there is no way you can't open up to anyone etc, to the level you have reached now clean for 23 days, reaching out to others who need help, connecting with others, Installing a filter, and a lot of healthy conversations and debates which have made you so much more self aware! You are a true inspiration for many over here!

To answer your 1st point "in the beginning it was simple to just say no and push it off. Now I've got 3 weeks of accumulated urges bottled up. I can't help but feel the whole 90 days thing is a glorified delay tactic...somethings gonna give way sooner or later" That is exactly what ODAAT is there for. I think most of us feel like this, fursure in the 1st 40 days of recovery as those are the hardest, but even afterwards My good buddy MR Anxiety (We have been buddies for already a bunch of years) is always trying to use that tactic of getting me worried that i'm "gonna give way sooner or later" as a way to get me to fall. and that's why it's very important to be aware that that fear is your MR Anxiety because look around the forum people have been able to stay clean for so long and you could as well ODAAT!

In regards to your second point "...so that's worrying. I haven't felt calm and serene at all. I don't feel like I'm doing anything to address the underlying issue, whatever that is." You see The underlying issue for me and probably also for you is loneliness, not feeling satisfied about yourself, feeling very low and useless, feeling as though everyone else is feeling happy without even trying and i could try to do everything to get happy but nothing brings me happiness etc, which brings way to depression, low self esteem Etc.
Now i've gone to therapy for some time now and i've learned that therapy could make you more self aware understand why you are feeling sad, learning to accept yourself for who you are, learning to live with urges, learning to see the good that you have to offer which is great ETC, but it will never cure my underlying issues you see the last week i've been having terrible back pains, and i ended a shidduch as such i've been extremely depressed now therapy as thought me to understand and accept the fact that i'm feeling depressed, understanding that acting out won't cure my depression just will make it worse etc, but it can't make me not feel depressed.
so i think you are trying to feel magically great at a time in your life where you are lonely, feeling a lot of stress of how to go about shidduchim etc, so that's not going to happen it make sense why you are feeling what you are feeling etc, but what's very important is to be able to accept the fact that right now you are feeling depressed it's ok to feel this way and acting out will just make things worse not better etc....................

That's my long meguila hope at least some parts are helpful!

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Last Edit: 06 Mar 2018 15:08 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 22:41 #327835

"danann@" post=327426 date=1519532169 catid=1especially experienced members of gye to talk over the phone or texting them, and eventually meeting them i think is best, and make them your "real life" friends to open up to, because not always (which is most cases i think) your real life friends not from gye are equipped and understanding of are situation.  hazlacha on the path hashem puts you on:)

Just commenting on the above quoted post...
I have heard folks in SA  call people outsiders "civilians". because most of them (even some therapists) have no clue about the pain of our struggle or the joy we share when we make progress.
Last Edit: 07 Mar 2018 20:49 by aryehdovid85. Reason: correction

Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 23:41 #327839

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aryehdovid85 wrote on 06 Mar 2018 22:41:
in SA we call people outside of the program "civilians". Most of them even therapist have no clue what we are struggling with or the joy we share when we progress.

Although I'm a member, the above seems to bolster my opinion that sa is a cult.
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Re: My sorry state... 06 Mar 2018 23:46 #327840

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cordnoy wrote on 06 Mar 2018 23:41:

aryehdovid85 wrote on 06 Mar 2018 22:41:
in SA we call people outside of the program "civilians". Most of them even therapist have no clue what we are struggling with or the joy we share when we progress.

Although I'm a member, the above seems to bolster my opinion that sa is a cult.

Agreed...

I'm not sure who you mean or what point you're trying to bring out, aryehdovid. Can you elaborate please?

Re: My sorry state... 07 Mar 2018 04:24 #327863

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Thank you all for the support, advice, and encouragement.

ieeyc: I know there's no way of knowing if/when I will fall, and it definitely got easier towards the beginning after the first few days, as I was "building my muscles". The issue is, now it is getting harder than before, and I fear that it won't last just by me pushing it off another day, hour, minute, etc.
To clarify: I'm not saying this as an excuse: that it's getting harder therefore a fall is inevitable so what's the point. I'm concerned that what I'm doing now may not be enough in the long term, and therefore should address that now instead of waiting until a possible fall. I don't want to keep doing what I'm doing and go through life on an endless cycle of falling and clean streaks.

Hashem Help Me: I understand what you're saying but I have trouble accepting it. I don't mean a physical pressure, a physical need to ejaculate. The building pressure is the desire to lust. And while I'm happy that in your situation you found it all to be imaginary in the end and were able to just ignore and surmount it, who's to say that that's the only way it goes? I certainly don't feel that way. I relate alot more to what I quoted above from gibbor120, that holding your breath won't last and is not called being in recovery. Again, not using this as an excuse to act out. Just observing that what I'm doing now may not be sustainable.

HakolMilimala: Yes I've been trying to do exactly that but having trouble pinpointing it. It's just...lust! It feels great! It's been my best friend for 15+ years! But I know there's more to it than that. It's usually when I'm feeling down on life and hopeless but I don't know if that's specific enough...Will keep giving it thought.

iampowerless: Thank you yes you're right, it feels good to know that I've progressed to this point and was able to overcome all (well maybe not all...but we're makin headway!) that negativity and hopelessness in my first post.
I have a love/hate relationship with ODAAT. On one hand it's a liberating thing. Don't worry about the future! Focus on the NOW. Win this battle. Keep doing that, each day adds up and before you know it you'll be on top of the world. On the other hand, it feels like tunnel vision to me. Obsessing over the NOW without thinking about the big picture is not good either. 
ODAAT was helpful in getting me this far, and hopefully further. However it may or may not last, and I need to be ready for that possibility. Unless I completely missed the boat on what ODAAT means in which case someone please enlighten me.
Regarding therapy and underlying issues, I didn't say I need to cure my underlying issues. I said I need to address them. It's a matter of knowing what they are how to deal with them, which if I understand correctly is pretty much what your point is. And for that I probably do need to go to therapy which will help a great deal but I keep procrastinating that phone call to Relief...
Refuah shelaima, hope your back gets better quick!


Thanks again everyone, I love reading your insight and support it's very helpful.
Last Edit: 07 Mar 2018 04:27 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 07 Mar 2018 09:55 #327871

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If I understand your post, you are looking for a happy recovery.

So I would tell you lies, but honestly, I am still looking. There has to be something else that works better than the drug. Even more, I guess i am thankful for the drug, otherwise I would never get real about my relationship to God, wife, work, friends...

Re: My sorry state... 07 Mar 2018 10:56 #327872

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HI Lifebound,

I just saw your posts, and I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

Firstly, congratulations on 24 clean days!! 25 days ago, you probably never imagined that you could accomplish so much!! Feel good about this accomplishment! 
Secondly, you need to view each and every day as a new battle. It's very hard to say to yourself," I will never do this again. Ever!" As soon as someone says that, the yetzer steps in and says, who are you fooling? You know that won't happen! Why prolong the inevitable? If we instead say to ourselves, TODAY I WILL NOT DO IT! NO MATTER WHAT! (Use caps when talking to your yetzer!) The yetzer will say "you know you will do it next week". Respond by saying "so What? Maybe I will give in next week, but TODAY I will not!" This is not a delay tactic, this is focusing on winning the battle that is right here right now. Right now I have a battle to win. The outcome of tomorrow's battle should have no effect on today's fight! The yetzer definitely fights this way! He fights every battle to win, and he is completely undeterred by 24 consecutive loses. Fight today's battle today, there is no need to fight tomorrow's fight now also. 
If you win today's fight, YOU WON!!! This is not an all or nothing concept. Every fight you win, every time you say no, is a victory in it of itself! Tomorrow's loss has no impact at all on today's fight. Don't view the 90 days as pushing off the inevitable. View it as a reprogramming of yourself. You are changing yourself from someone who gives into his lust, into someone who does not give in. This change takes blood, sweat, and tears, and time! Even if you do fail, you are a very different person! You are now a fighter! Not a quitter! You are not delaying the inevitable, you are building up your army. Every day that you hold out, your strength grows, and you become a bigger, better fighter.
Every victory, no matter how tiny, is exceedingly precious in Hashem's eyes! HE wants us to win! HE is rooting for us more than the entire GYE site combined! HE wants us to win! HE also helps us when we ask him. Say some Tehillim when feeling down. Pour out your heart in Tefilah to HIM, asking, begging, PLEADING with HIM to help you, to give you the strength you need to fight. Hashem knows our limits, and will push us to those limits. But HE won't push one bit beyond our limits. 
Chazal say, the greater a person, the greater is his yetzer. You are now a strong fighter, not a wimpy pushover. In order to challenge you, your yetzer has grown accordingly. Imagine this, 25 days ago, had the yetzer attacked you with the same strength he is using now, you would have failed in 3 seconds flat!!! He has to up the ante, just to level the playing field! The fact that things are getting harder, means that you are getting better!
Thirdly, this is a lifelong fight. There is no way around that, and no magic pill to make it go away. Chazal say אין אפוטרופוס לעריות!! They knew what they were talking about. The yetzer for Arayos, (and masturbation is included in that category) is a lifelong thing that affects everybody! No one is immune from this fight! Those of us on GYE are just more pro-active about fighting the fight. But everybody has that fight. That is why Chazal forbade Yichud, and that is why they established special restrictions for when one's wife is a Niddah. Solving your personal issues will help you know yourself better. It will not make this fight go away, at all. We need to focus on each fight as it comes up. The fact that we may have unresolved personal issues, is just the yetzer's way of saying "Be a quitter!" Tell him back, "Yes, I have loads of unresolved issues, BUT I WILL NOT GIVE IN TODAY. PERIOD!!!!!"
One way that I found that gives me chizuk, is to dedicate your fight to someone else. Perhaps you have a friend or family member who needs a shiduch, a parnassah, or a refu'ah. Say to yourself, that in so and so's zechus, so that he can get...I WILL NOT GIVE IN. A few years back, missiles were landing all over Israel from Gaza. (I live in Jerusalem.) When faced with a difficult challenge, I said to myself that Klal Yisroel needs the zechusim now. In the zechus that everyone should be safe and unharmed, I will not do this now. I was able to last for a while with this. If you do this for a friend, it might be very helpful. 
Another thing to do is to find another way to blow off stress. Jog around the block, run up and down 5 flights of stairs, do as many pushups as you can, jog in place quickly for 10 minutes, lift weights until you are sore, whatever it takes to help release some tension in your life. You don't need to masturbate! Smokers NEED their nicotine fix, you do not need a masturbate fix.
You don't need years of therapy to win this fight, and you (and everyone really) will be in this fight for life, but you are not alone, and you can win this fight!!

Re: My sorry state... 07 Mar 2018 19:07 #327889

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yehoshua wrote on 07 Mar 2018 09:55:
If I understand your post, you are looking for a happy recovery.

So I would tell you lies, but honestly, I am still looking. There has to be something else that works better than the drug. Even more, I guess i am thankful for the drug, otherwise I would never get real about my relationship to God, wife, work, friends...

Thanks but no I don't think recovery is supposed to be all happiness and rainbows and sunshine. Happiness is related but mostly it's a separate issue, IMO. I'm talking about just the effectiveness and sustainability of my recovery method so far.

Re: My sorry state... 08 Mar 2018 20:54 #327955

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I'm not in a great spot right now. Went to an event yesterday that turned out to be extremely triggering. I had very little hope that I would make it through the night without acting out. But thankfully I was able to overcome it by forcing myself to go for a late night bike ride and get some fresh air, and by sheer "white-knuckling". But when I woke up this morning the urge was and still is even stronger than before. It's just getting added to the 25 day old pile of lust.

If anything, this supports my belief that I'm just holding my breath. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

Re: My sorry state... 08 Mar 2018 21:16 #327958

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take a deep breath my friend and then another and another, and then pick up the phone and call a GYE buddy who went through what you are going through i'm telling you the 1st 40 days are hell and what you are feeling is very normal
in regards to "If anything, this supports my belief that I'm just holding my breath. Clearly I'm doing something wrong." one of my problems and many others is we are always looking at the future and we think it's the right thing to do to prepare ourselves etc, etc, but one of the things i'm learning in therapy is to live in the present this point of constantly being busy with the future is Called anxiety it's not real just a big bluff so don't treat it as real!
Plus every time i worry my therapist tells me think about what you are worrying could you or are you going to do something about it now and since usually the answer is no it reminds me that again i fell into the cycle of constant worrying about the future brought to me by my friend Mr Anxiety. Focus on the present and how great you are being right now even though you are triggered and feeling crappy you are letting go and surrendering to hashem! so the fact that you are feeling crappy there is nothing to do about it hashem has given you that feeling now so accept it/surrender to him because you are powerless over that feeling and to worry about the future/prepare for the future there is nothing you could do to prepare for the future (NOTHING!) so it's just anxiety don't fall into the trap to believe that it's real! Remember the trick to recovery is to learn to live in the present! and accept/ surrender and the fact that you are feeling real crappy at 25 day's clean doesn't mean you are doing things wrong most of us felt real crappy at day 25 it show's you are doing everything RIGHT!!!!!!   You are a real Tzaddik!!!

 Love Yankel!
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes
Last Edit: 08 Mar 2018 21:40 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 08 Mar 2018 21:54 #327960

iampowerless wrote on 08 Mar 2018 21:16:
......Plus every time i worry my therapist tells me think about what you are worrying could you or are you going to do something about it now and since usually the answer is no it reminds me that again i fell into the cycle of constant worrying about the future brought to me by my friend Mr Anxiety. 


not to minimize Lifebounds concern about finding effective recovery tools  rather  just to echo what "iampowerless"  wrote in a different loshen..... 

a chashive mechanech illustrates this point with a Mother Good Rhyme which goes something like this:
"for every problem under the sun there is a solution or there is none. If there is a solution,then find it,if there is none never mind it" 

my thing is that some solutions are hard to find and not easy to implement. May Hashem guide us to health and recovery.

Re: My sorry state... 08 Mar 2018 22:18 #327963

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@Aryehdovid "my thing is that some solutions are hard to find and not easy to implement." i agree with you that there are a lot of healthy tools we could think and try to implement to help us in this struggle, but it's very important to realize when it's legit that we are looking for tools and when it's just anxiety only look for tools for your struggle when you are feeling good. if you feel like popping and you are looking for tools now then it's just anxiety and bluff and it's time to surrender/accept as opposed to looking for tools!


 Love Yankel!
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes
Last Edit: 08 Mar 2018 22:20 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 08 Mar 2018 23:08 #327968

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If anything, this supports my belief that I'm just holding my breath. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

NOT TRUE!!!!!!!
You are growing stronger by the day! You are in fact so strong, that the yetzer decided to up the ante to the next level! You found yourself at an event that triggered an extreme ta'aveh. 30 days ago, you would not have hesitated to give in. But now, the new you, the stronger you, FOUGHT IT OFF FOR AN ENTIRE NIGHT!!!
Why do you keep thinking that you are holding your breath? Each end every time that you are triggered, but do nothing IS A VICTORY IN IT OF ITSELF! You won today's fight, end of story! Now you are faced with tomorrow's fight. Remind yourself that you are now a fighter! If you won once, you can win again!!
Hatzlacha!

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 04:52 #327978

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Yerushalmi wrote on 08 Mar 2018 23:08:


If anything, this supports my belief that I'm just holding my breath. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

NOT TRUE!!!!!!!
You are growing stronger by the day! You are in fact so strong, that the yetzer decided to up the ante to the next level! You found yourself at an event that triggered an extreme ta'aveh. 30 days ago, you would not have hesitated to give in. But now, the new you, the stronger you, FOUGHT IT OFF FOR AN ENTIRE NIGHT!!!
Why do you keep thinking that you are holding your breath? Each end every time that you are triggered, but do nothing IS A VICTORY IN IT OF ITSELF! You won today's fight, end of story! Now you are faced with tomorrow's fight. Remind yourself that you are now a fighter! If you won once, you can win again!!
Hatzlacha!

נאט טרו!!!



Actually it depends on each person. But in general "If you won you can win again" essentially = "if you fight you can fight again" which essentially = "holding my breath".

So long as we are fighting and winning we have a problem. Some of us are ok with such a life, and can survive 120 years like this

Either way it's not working for me because recently I've been fighting and losing too much. 

Im currently focusing on learning how to be "Living life" and reading R Twersky on the subject and making small strides BH

Hatzlacha on whatever path you choose

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Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 06:15 #327983

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So long as we are fighting and winning we have a problem. Some of us are ok with such a life, and can survive 120 years like this

would you please care to elaborate on this isnt this always a fight regardless of how recovered as
well as non addicts ?

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 09:00 #327994

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Yerushalmi wrote on 08 Mar 2018 23:08:


If anything, this supports my belief that I'm just holding my breath. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

NOT TRUE!!!!!!!
You are growing stronger by the day! You are in fact so strong, that the yetzer decided to up the ante to the next level! You found yourself at an event that triggered an extreme ta'aveh. 30 days ago, you would not have hesitated to give in. But now, the new you, the stronger you, FOUGHT IT OFF FOR AN ENTIRE NIGHT!!!
Why do you keep thinking that you are holding your breath? Each end every time that you are triggered, but do nothing IS A VICTORY IN IT OF ITSELF! You won today's fight, end of story! Now you are faced with tomorrow's fight. Remind yourself that you are now a fighter! If you won once, you can win again!!
Hatzlacha!

very well said,5 stars!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

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Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 09:29 #327996

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Right on Markz ! I propose a toast "TO LIFE, L'CHAIM". I think this is the meaning of "Let go and let God". I never understood that actually, how can you fight and in the same time let go.

All the best to you lifebound. Actually you have a great nickname!

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 12:12 #328000

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Actually it depends on each person. But in general "If you won you can win again" essentially = "if you fight you can fight again" which essentially = "holding my breath".

I beg to differ. The point of life is to overcome challenges and grow. There is never appoint in life where we are unchallenged! Chazal said אין אפוטרופוס לעריות, they forbade yichud, they made special harchakos for when one's wife is a nidah, and we all know what the Mishnah in Avos says about talking to women. This is a particularly difficult challenge that we all face.
If I am faced with a challenge today, and I overcame it, I WON. Each day we face new challenges, and each day that we win is a victory. 90 days isn't just a delay tactic, it is a string of 90 victories! Probably more, we can face numerous challenges in one day. If someone kept clean for 25 days, be proud of the long string of victories. Realize what you have accomplished, and be proud of the accomplishment! Some people will call this one day at a time. it doesn't matter what you call it. Just understand that I have a nissayon right here, right now. What happened yesterday, what may happen tomorrow, is totally irrelevant to the nissayon that is right in front of me.

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 12:37 #328005

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Yerushalmi wrote on 09 Mar 2018 12:12:










Actually it depends on each person. But in general "If you won you can win again" essentially = "if you fight you can fight again" which essentially = "holding my breath".

I beg to differ. The point of life is to overcome challenges and grow. There is never appoint in life where we are unchallenged! Chazal said אין אפוטרופוס לעריות, they forbade yichud, they made special harchakos for when one's wife is a nidah, and we all know what the Mishnah in Avos says about talking to women. This is a particularly difficult challenge that we all face.
If I am faced with a challenge today, and I overcame it, I WON. Each day we face new challenges, and each day that we win is a victory. 90 days isn't just a delay tactic, it is a string of 90 victories! Probably more, we can face numerous challenges in one day. If someone kept clean for 25 days, be proud of the long string of victories. Realize what you have accomplished, and be proud of the accomplishment! Some people will call this one day at a time. it doesn't matter what you call it. Just understand that I have a nissayon right here, right now. What happened yesterday, what may happen tomorrow, is totally irrelevant to the nissayon that is right in front of me.

This is still called white-knuckling in my dictionary, which was my point - please re-read my entire post including the first quoted parts

I believe that there are many in gye who do have a lower scale addiction (I wouldn't call it non-addict) where they are stuck in a cycle and the body needs training to learn that they can live w/o any sex drug - and 90 day white knuckling alone with chopsticks, chatroom, even calling gye friends daily etc can help them "break free"
There are many others on Gye that tried all these mentioned tools and are still struggling mightily for years

Either way, if someone recognizes they are white knuckling,  give him a high 5 for admitting it ​​​​
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Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 12:40 #328006

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The life of a yoyo can be a fabulous one....Many rides, lifts, twirls, swings and the euphoria of soarin' or winnin'. Sadly, it's life is also filled with falls, knots, twists and spiralin' downwards. No reason to get sad- that is its point of life.

If a person is satisfied livin' his/her life that way, that is fine. If not, like I and many other people here chose, then they should find themselves a tool of recovery where they can actually live.

You don't have to. If you just wanna score more runs than the bad guy, that's also ok. Even if the evil lust scores more than you, that might also work for you, for there are so many victories along the way. Not for me though.

In general, I believe that people would have much greater affect on others by saying what worked (or didn't) for them.

God speed!
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Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 16:24 #328010

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Thanks everyone for your insight.

At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I feel like I'm not on the same page as some of you who have kindly replied in the last couple days. 
@Yerushalmi, you keep focusing on the fact that TODAY was a victory, celebrate that and NOTHING else. Be proud of today's accomplishment, tomorrow may be a new battle but don't worry! After all, "you won once, you can win again!"
So first of all to reiterate, my concern the past few days has not been that I'm using the future as an excuse to act out. I am talking about the now, as you keep advocating. Right NOW, TODAY, I feel a buildup of lust and urges that has accumulated over the last 25 days. Don't get me wrong, I'm very proud of the fact that I made it to this point! But telling me that it's NOT TRUE that I'm holding my breath is a bold assertion which I don't think is correct.

@iampowerless, see above. Also, the idea that "looking for tools is just anxiety and bluff" makes no sense to me. How are you ever supposed to get anywhere in life if you can't recognize that what you're doing isn't working and you need to adapt your tools?

As Markz and cordnoy said, I can't live life like this anymore. I am powerless over lust. I may not be completely powerless over masturbation, but lusting has only gotten worse since I started the 90 days. Lusting leads to stronger urges = holding my breath and white knuckling = eventually gonna pop. I don't know if that makes me a lustaholic or sexaholic or addict or addict-lite or non-addict, I'm trying to let go of the labels for now. What I do know is that I'm sick sick sick of it and cannot go through the rest of my life like that. That's not living. If this doesn't apply to you, great, more power to you. But this is my situation as I see it.

Hope this clarifies things.

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 17:58 #328012

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@Lifebound i hear you!

"@iampowerless, Also, the idea that "looking for tools is just anxiety and bluff" makes no sense to me. How are you ever supposed to get anywhere in life if you can't recognize that what you're doing isn't working and you need to adapt your tools?"
let me explain what i meant to say of course you should be constantly looking for tools and how to adapt your tools in order to get anywhere in life i agree with you on that 100% and i'm glad you are looking for tools, but to me it seems like you are overhyping your search for tools a little too much (in situations where the stress you are going through is normal. TOOLS CAN'T TAKE AWAY THE NORMAL PAIN OF THE PROCESS OF GETTING SOBER) you see right now instead of looking at the positive and being happy with your 25 days clean. you are getting a panic attack about the fact that you feel "TODAY, I feel a buildup of lust and urges that has accumulated over the last 25 days" i believe that feeling is anxiety because in reality you will not pop in therapy what you are feeling is called "riding the waves" which means once the wave goes extremely high like you are feeling right now eventually it will come down like all waves do without you doing anything to make it come down. so you don't need a tool to make it go down. Hashem makes it go down by itself so this popping business is anxiety i'm sure it's true that you are feeling this way i'm not telling you you aren't feeling this way but the wave will go down by itself no tools needed. So i know the waves are painful but it's very important to learn to "ride the waves" as sadly there is no tool that i'm aware of that truly cures the wave! Hope that clarifies a little bit!

And if you don't agree with me feel free to disagree this back and forth will make you extremely more self aware and so far the best tool i've learned for this struggle is Self awareness!!!

 Have a Great and Clean Shabbos!
:kissing_heart:Your Dear Friend Yankel!
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

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Last Edit: 09 Mar 2018 17:59 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 18:30 #328013

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I think both are correct. There are short-term and long-term goals, or what in the military would be called tactics and strategy. Winning the battle being fought right now, as well as planning how to bring the overall war to a conclusion. So I think in the heat of a struggle we need to concentrate only on right now, overcoming/delaying/surrendering the urges, getting past the immediate threat. At the same time we need to find tools to learn how to live life with serenity and not have the triggers turn into urges that need to be fought.
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



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Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 18:58 #328015

iampowerless wrote on 09 Mar 2018 17:58:
@Lifebound i hear you!

what you are feeling is called "riding the waves" which means once the wave goes extremely high like you are feeling right now.........i know the waves are painful but it's very important to learn to "ride the waves" as sadly there is no tool that i'm aware of that truly cures the wave! Hope that clarifies a little bit!

............u extremely more self aware and so far the best tool i've learned for this struggle is Self awareness!!!


My dear Yankel, Thanks for your insight!  I hear what you're saying.....and respect the progress you've made in recovery. I too have become very self-aware after years of therapy,and live SA meetings.
Yes sometimes we need to just ride the waves especially when experiencing  withdrawal from our drug or other painful situations.

Tools I have used include:
1) asking Hashem in my own words for the strength to deal with the situation(s)
2) Connecting  (either phone conversation or face-to-face) with other program brothers especially those with strong  and solid recovery.

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 19:13 #328017

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Hey buddies, just popped onto this forum after taking a couple day break, needed to live away from the escape into anonymity for a bit.

Just reading through this forum, it is quite clear that there is a very big divide in style and approach.

There’s the Chizuk, push harder, you are amazing, a fighter, a winner, a tzaddik, just close your eyes and stay clean wow you are so strong approach.

And then, excuse my harsh language, there is an actual approach, with a goal of healing, letting go, and coming to live life without a constant urge to fight. 

Lifebound, lemme tell you something, from what it seems to me, you have your head on straight. I can’t promise you that you won’t fall. I can’t promis you that you are now so much stronger than you were 26 days ago. I can’t tell you that you are now the biggest tzaddik ever. I can’t tell you that every day of not falling means so much. (because even though to Hashem, a day of not sinning is undoubtedly precious, my personal view is that this is not a mentality that makes much of a difference to us living people, whos goal should be to reach an emotionally healthy state where we can live life without urges to sin. So if I don’t sin today, woohoo, so I’ll sin tomorrow. As long as I haven’t healed, I’m still a sinner.)

But what I can tell you is, that you have made tremendous tremendous strides in your view and perspective of this whole issue, because to me it seems like you have begun to identify with the goal of developing an actual life-saving approach, and it might take some time, but with such a goal, you will make it. (I’m still journeying )
Keep working at it, and remember to look at the big picture. You are here to heal. If you fall, that picture doesn’t change at all, because once you have shifted your goals, you will keep searching for that gateway to recovery, and I’m sure you can find it soon. That call to Relief might be a big turning point though  
Feel free to be in touch

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 19:16 #328019

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I do not mean to polarize all those with the aforementioned Chizuk approach, I’m sure this works for many, and for me it can be encouaraging also, so let’s still be friends?
Just wanted to share my personal perspective.

Re: My sorry state... 09 Mar 2018 19:45 #328023

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@hakol don't worry i'm still your friend. Hahaha!
but let me clarify i don't believe that there are 2 different approaches. I believe a real healthy recovery needs both parts! 
And just like you pointed out just plain chizuk without tools is worthless
Also constantly looking for tools as though there is a magic tool to be used for every feeling and mood is also worthless. Because something's don't have tools to get better. We just need to learn to accept/let go. 

again i don't believe that there is a disagreement i believe a proper recovery needs both aspects!

 Good Shabbos Love Yankel (don't worry i'm still your friend!!!)
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes

Re: My sorry state... 10 Mar 2018 22:57 #328038

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Lifebound,
Let me explain what I meant.
I have been struggling with masturbation for 24 years. I have also been viewing inappropriate material online, but for less years. Back when I started masturbating, there was simply less available online. I began keeping track of how often I did it, around 10 years ago. Since 2007, I have masturbated approximately 2,300 times. Some here may view that as a lot, some may view it as a little. 
I discovered this site, quite by accident, around 2 months ago. By then I was ready to change, and was sick of myself, sick of what I was doing, and feeling very down about myself. I committed to the 90 days, and lasted 18. I started again, but lasted again only 18 days. I committed a 3rd time, and so far I am closing in on 31 days. (The site lists my streak as 29, I entered in the wrong date when I started again.) Thus time it is very different. I am in touch via email with some people on this group, and I update them regularly about my progress. 
Over the years, I have slowly come to the following conclusions. (To anybody here who feels differently, this isn't personal [especially since this is anonymous!], these are just my own observations about life, and about what works for me.) 
1) I am in charge of my own life, and I am responsible for any decisions that I make, and I am responsible for my actions or inactions. If my father locked me in a closet when I was little, and my mother ignored me for years, and my elementary school rabbeim abused me, (This is just an example, none of this happened!) I am still responsible for the choices that I make. I can not go on acting out, and blaming my poor choices on my parents, on my upbringing, on my spouse, or on my kids. I can choose to do the right thing, or I can choose to do the wrong thing, but the choice is mine, entirely. 
2) Many times I would feel down and depressed about different things. Something a parent may have said to me, a bill that is due and I can't pay, a disagreement with my spouse, my son being thrown out of his school (all true examples), can all cause me to feel "in the dumps" for a while. Depression makes it difficult to choose the right choices, but the choices are still mine to make. I can still choose to sleep late or to get up on time for minyan, I can still choose to masturbate or not to, even when any of the above happens. 
3) I can change the way I look at myself. In the past I was someone who gave in to his lusts, or at best fought them half heartedly. I now look at myself as a fighter. I am the type of person who doesn't give in. I tell myself "I don't need this type of fix". I will now fight the good fight. Even if I don't win every battle, I am now a fighter!
4) If I really want to quit, I have to give up on some things. For years, I would start to fight, but I would still view stuff online. I would still "play around down there" with my hands, and hope to stop myself before anything comes out. Of course with such acting out, failure was only a matter of time. And fail I did, repeatedly. I have only recently realized that I can't "have my cake and eat it too." I can't view myself as fighting if I give my opponent the best weapons! I have to let go, entirely. I tightened up my filter, to avoid even more materials (Explicit material was blocked a while ago.). For the past 2 weeks, (with one let down a week ago), I have not touched "down there" at all. This idea has helped me tremendously! The more doors, windows, cracks that I seal up, the less the yetzer can get in. 
5) Hashem loves me, and wants me to succeed. I daven to HIM asking for help all the time. I have seen many times that HE comes through for me. The most obvious example, is  finding this site. I wasn't looking for anything like it, I simply clicked on a link that I wasn't even sure what it was, and here I was. My filter was on a whitelist, and it shouldn't have even gotten through at all, but it did!
6) I do not believe that there is such a thing as a lust free life. Chazal made numerous takanos for this, including yichud, restrictions for when one's wife is a nidah, שניות לעריות, idle chatter with women are all examples. They knew that lust can always be right around the corner, and sometimes the smallest incident can trigger us immensely! Chazal describe the titanic battle that בועז fought, the night that Rus came to him in the granary. He was approaching 80, yet he still had to fight his yetzer. פלטי בן ליש was praised for likewise fighting off his yetzer. For avoiding the advances of Mrs. Potiphar, Yosef was called Yosef Hatzadik. Yakov praised himself by saying that Ruevain was ראשית עוני (see Rashi). EVERYONE faces challenges in these areas, and no one is immune. I do not think anyone can say that they have no difficulties in this area. The best tactic that we have, is to avoid the triggers as best as we can.

To get back to Lifebound.
I think that there will always be challenges in these areas. I do not think that there is a magic pill, tool, psychotherapist's trick that will make the nisayon go away. By all means, go to therapy, it will help you understand yourself better. Better self awareness, however, is just a weapon in your arsenal. It can help you understand how you think, and what may trigger you. At the end of the day, the choices are still yours, and only yours to make. Will you act out, or will you not? No therapist can make that decision for you. 

For myself, once I let go of the ta'aveh, things got much easier. Once I got rid of as many triggers as I could, the fight got much easier. I choose not to view it as holding my breath waiting for the inevitable. I choose to view it as, there will be another fight around the corner. I expect it, get over that, and try to focus on the fight in front of me right now. That's what I meant by not holding your breath. I choose not to look it at that way, and that makes the fight easier for me.

I still have downers, and I still feel despondent sometime. I send  emails to my friends here, and they encourage me, I try to be mechazaik myself. I try and focus on some of the good that Hashem bestows on me, and that also helps me. Knowing that HE is on my side and looking out for me. 

At the end of the day, you have to do what works for you. If everything I said here is totally useless to you, then simply disregard it. No hard feelings. I am just writing my opinions, and what worked for me, and if someone else can glean something new, great, if not, then not.

All the best to you! FEEL GREAT about your accomplishment! Keep fighting! Keep asking HIM for help!

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 03:47 #328046

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Thank you for all the clarification, I re-read my last post and realized it was a little blunt, I hope no one was offended or anything...even if I don't agree or feel that it isn't applicable to me, the varied perspectives are super helpful to learn what worked for others, and as a result develop self-awareness and clarity in what works for myself. So keep em coming, and in the words of Hakol, let's still be friends?

I'll try to respond to all the specific points later, but I think we're all agreeing more or less that there are two aspects here, whether you call it short-term vs long-term, tactics vs strategy, chizuk vs tools, etc. Apparently for some it works more to focus on one or the other, but both are needed in some capacity for effective recovery. For myself at this point, it's hard to just focus on the chizuk side when I'm convinced that what I'm doing isn't "true" recovery. On the contrary: assuming I'm right that I'm just holding my breath, it would be negligent not to take a step back to look at the bigger picture.

On the other hand, it's not impossible that I've got it wrong. Those of you advocating that it's just anxiety, ride the waves, or what have you, may be right that I should shut up, stop whining and just white-knuckle through it and it will get better. Guess I'm the only one that can make that decision 

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 05:06 #328048

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Greetings lifebound.
congrats on your success so far.
Here's my 2 sense.
You are in recovery as we speak (email).
the fact that right now you can't/don't/won't see long term success doesn't mean that you aren't in recovery.
Think of this sickness as cancer 
When a survivor is on chemo and the docs find more tumors does it null and void the previous treatments?? NO of course not.
It calls for  adjustments to whatever they're doing now. As is sometimes the case the docs will switch to a completely new treatment regimen. But (and here's the important part) from the moment this patient started thier first treatment they are on the road to recovery regardless of what road blocks pop up on the way.

You might be right that what you're doing now isn't the  final mix of ingredients for success. But at least you're in the kitchen figuring out the proper recipe. And like the cancer patient the first and second set of treatments might not be the correct one but at least they're in the process if figuring out the one that will work.
I heard something nice/good the other day.
Giving up is the LAST option.being that it's the last one you still have plenty of other options to try before using the last one.
And because it's the last one why use it so quickly.
Good luck and successful cooking

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 08:34 #328056

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Thank you for all the clarification, I re-read my last post and realized it was a little blunt, I hope no one was offended or anything...even if I don't agree or feel that it isn't applicable to me, the varied perspectives are super helpful to learn what worked for others, and as a result develop self-awareness and clarity in what works for myself. So keep em coming, and in the words of Hakol, let's still be friends?

Dear Lifeboound,
No hard feelings taken. We are friends here (as best as we can be in an anonymous forum). Friends give each other advice, but aren't insulted if the recipient does not need it, or does not heed it. 

A therapist that I went to a while ago, said to me that all the tools and solutions are inside your [I.e. my] brain, and the the job of the therapist is to help you [me] find them and figure them out. This took me years to actually digest. I'd blame everyone under the sun for my inability to fight the yetzer, but until I said to myself "This is my life, and only I can change it, only I can ruin it and only I can fix it" did things start to improve. Case in point. I would struggle to get up on time for Shacharis. I would daven to Hashem to give me the strength to do so. One time, right after such a tefilah, a voice in my head suddenly said "If you really want to get up, why aren't you setting an alarm clock!?"  
I can go to therapy for years (I really only went for a few months), but until I decide to FULLY COMMIT to this fight, to put in the blood, sweat, and tears, and fight with everything I got, I won't win. Once I came to that conclusion, things seem to have gotten easier. I still face challenges daily. I still struggle, and I expect to struggle for a long time, but I am now fully committed to this fight. I don't view it as holding my breath delaying the inevitable, I view it as fighting the battle in front of me now, and not thinking about tomorrow's fight.
All the best to you!

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 13:17 #328066

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Quick update:
Just pulled an all-nighter here. Slept too much Shabbos day = can't sleep motzei shabbos. Been that way for me for years (gonna be even worse now with the clock change...) But I'm happy to report that I was able to suppress the constant urge to relax with some good ol' fashioned porn. This was the toughest battle yet...

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:03 #328068

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Great job
Another difference between the two approaches seems to be the dependant if its an addiction
in which in that case chizuk and white knuckling to 90 won't really help rather a way has to be found how to get the body out of the rut and take away that grip that acting out has on us 
But on the other hand if it was just a case of curosity or giving in to the wills of the y"h then chizuk and really buckling down can have a major effect on the person
Last Edit: 11 Mar 2018 14:04 by ayidel.

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:08 #328069

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ayidel wrote on 11 Mar 2018 14:03:
Great job
Another difference between the two approaches seems to be the dependant if its an addiction
in which in that case chizuk and white knuckling to 90 won't really help rather a way has to be found how to get the body out of the rut and take away that grip that acting out has on us 
But on the other hand if it was just a case of curosity or giving in to the wills of the y"h then chizuk and really buckling down can have a major effect on the person

I believe you are correct, this is why I had been preoccupied with whether I am an addict or not which kind of led to this whole discussion. Currently I think I'm somewhere in the middle. Addictive tendencies in some respects but not others. But I'm trying not to focus on that too much now and just see what works and what doesn't

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:13 #328071

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While i'm in no position to tell you if you are an addict or not it seems to be one of the signs if 
you can't stop it by regular chizuk and a solid resolution not to do it if with all that you find yourself constantlly battling yourself i would check it out

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:28 #328074

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Thank you, I appreciate your awareness that you can't tell me what I am. Others on here have been eager to say that I am or am not an addict, neither of which have been really helpful.

So far I've been able to stay clean from porn and masturbation by sheer willpower. Flip side to that is my concern that it feels like I'm holding my breath. So is the chizuk approach working so far? Maybe...kinda...not really... We'll see what happens I guess and adjust as needed. I just hate to be wasting time if I am indeed on the wrong (read: ineffective in the long term) path.

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:42 #328075

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I wouldn't call it wasting time as every tip could come to use if not in an affirmative way at least in a way you will be able to help others by showing what won't work 
But even more important we have been sent here for perfection and bettering ourself and while the outside enviorment does not look that way as they honor results and not work we must remember that the work is the main part and be ready to give what it takes to become better so keep on trucking as they say here and you will get there but ceartinlly don't shy away from trying different ways

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 14:45 #328076

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You're right of course. I just get impatient quickly. Yet another thing to work on...

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 15:12 #328077

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As long as you’re trying you’re on the right path. If things aren’t working maybe you’re just in the slow and bumpy lane but you’re definitely headed in the right direction. Life bound!
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



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Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 15:24 #328079

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 11 Mar 2018 15:12:
As long as you’re trying you’re on the right path. If things aren’t working maybe you’re just in the slow and bumpy lane but you’re definitely headed in the right direction. Life bound!

As long as you're nearby with your monster bus to give me a lift if needed

Re: My sorry state... 11 Mar 2018 18:47 #328105

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Just pulled an all-nighter here.
If I were to do that, that's an almost guaranteed way for me to fail. This is what I meant by a total commitment. I know that I need a decent night's sleep, and if I don't get it, my defenses are lowered tremendously. Part of my commitment to the fight, is to make certain to get the sleep that I need. 

Another thing, and in this I am repeating what others have already said here. If you stay clean, you won a fight. That is not a waste of time. That is another victory on your score card. Every time that you fight off the yetzer, you are becoming stronger. You are also a better person. Had you pulled an all-nighter 30 days ago, was there even a chance at all that you'd stay clean?  You are not the same person now as you were last month. Don't get despondent because you had a tough fight. Enjoy the feeling of a hard earned victory!

Re: My sorry state... 12 Mar 2018 02:42 #328129

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Well said jerusalemite - as we know the ultimate teshuvah is being in the same situation and not repeating the deed , that being said  LB you feel like your strugglling to breathe - branch out and try other tools - your kind of on a springboard -you got up higher than before  ,now swing higher  -theres more in reach 

Re: My sorry state... 13 Mar 2018 07:41 #328191

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Yerushalmi wrote on 11 Mar 2018 18:47:
Just pulled an all-nighter here.
If I were to do that, that's an almost guaranteed way for me to fail. This is what I meant by a total commitment. I know that I need a decent night's sleep, and if I don't get it, my defenses are lowered tremendously. Part of my commitment to the fight, is to make certain to get the sleep that I need. 

Another thing, and in this I am repeating what others have already said here. If you stay clean, you won a fight. That is not a waste of time. That is another victory on your score card. Every time that you fight off the yetzer, you are becoming stronger. You are also a better person. Had you pulled an all-nighter 30 days ago, was there even a chance at all that you'd stay clean?  You are not the same person now as you were last month. Don't get despondent because you had a tough fight. Enjoy the feeling of a hard earned victory!

oh man if I could just get my wife to agree
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Re: My sorry state... 13 Mar 2018 14:02 #328200

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very well said yerushalmi! singularity, its nice if we could get the wife to see it that way but the main thing is that Hashem DOES see it that way and so should YOU!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 06:43 #328683

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I've been in total freefall for the last few days. Completely lost momentum and any desire to stop.
Some random disjointed thoughts and realizations that have been bouncing round my head:​
  • I'm sick of this. I hate it so much. That's what I've been telling myself all along. Yet I now realize that I love it so much. Watching porn this time, after my longest clean streak, was the biggest relief ever. It was like greeting an old friend. Do I really want to stop? Yes! but not at the expense of sweet porn...which obviously makes no sense...
  • I think the only reason I was able to stay away from porn for this long (35 whole days...) was because I knew in the back of my mind that I wasn't truly done with porn. There's no way. I need it too much. I knew I could always get to it, and it was just a matter of pushing it off. Until I couldn't push it off anymore. So what does that mean? Do I have to commit to never watching porn or lusting again, forever? Seems like the wrong mindset, but isn't that what we're all trying to do...?
  • This was a VERY clear and steady descent into insanity. I thought it would be more random but it was surprisingly linear. Over the last 2 weeks or so I was steadily hit with more and more attacks of lust. No matter what I was doing, completely out of nowhere. Day by day it got more frequent and intense, until shabbos day which was practically nonstop, to motzai shabbos where I was literally dizzy and short of breath at times. I've never had that before. I guess its not so surprising, considering this is the longest I've ever abstained from porn/masturbation.
  • Whatever unqualified advice I've given others here after falling was useless when it came to myself. I completely withdrew and isolated myself. Didn't reach out, didn't respond, just wallowed in self-pity and hopelessness. I still feel like doing that but the present me is now sane enough to know it's pointless and stupid to stay submerged in despair. The me from 3 days ago was in no state to consider getting up.
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2018 06:56 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 13:50 #328692

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Lifebound:

Sorry to hear about your stumble.
Here are some thoughts that i have, and some tips that worked for me.
  • Porn is not sweet, it is VILE! We know this intellectually, but have a hard time internalizing this emotionally. The more a person tells himself  that porn is vile trash, the more he will come to really feel it. It is not an old friend, it is a monster trying to pull you into its infernal embrace!
  • Realize what you accomplished! You now know that you have it within you to fight for 35 whole days! Undoubtedly, you have grown. You are no longer a pushover! You are now a fighter. When a fighter loses, he doesn't wallow, he prepares for his next fight. Start getting ready. Analyze how you fell, and what steps you can take to avoid a repeat. 
  • How were you able to access this porn? Are your devices blocked? If your friends know that you don't access such devices, they might not offer them to you. Ask them to not offer you such devices!
  • Some suggestions that worked for me:
    • Carry around a pocket size tehilim or chumash. When faced with something sudden, a few perakim of tehilim, or a bit of שנים מקרא can help.
    • Do you touch yourself "down there"? I found it much easier to not touch at all, than to touch, and stop myself before anything happens. 
    • Daven, daven, and daven some more, asking Hashem to give you the strength to do the right thing!
    • When in the grips of a strong desire, I take a deep breath, and repeat over and over to myself, "I do not need to do this. I do not need to do this."
    • If i am sitting around, doing nothing, the yetzer strikes hard! A change of scenery can help me to shift my thoughts to something else. Also, something to release the tension often helps me. Pushups, running around the block, going up and down 8 flights of stairs etc.

I hope these ideas help! Remember, you are a fighter, and fighters don't give up just because they hit a temporary setback!
Hatzlacha Rabbah!!!

P.S. If you want to, tell me your name (פלוני בן פלונית), and i can daven for you at the Kosel the next time I am there.

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 14:02 #328693

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Yerushalmi, for non addicts your post was great - keep them coming and keep sharing

You wrote "You now know that you have it within you to fight for 35 whole days! Undoubtedly, you have grown"
This guy has been fighting presumably for 10,20,30 years. Another 35 days of white knuckling do not reflect growth - sorry

The fact he came back and shared is great and he'll grow in his own time and pace with Gds help
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Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 15:29 #328695

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Markz wrote on 21 Mar 2018 14:02:
Yerushalmi, for non addicts your post was great - keep them coming and keep sharing

You wrote "You now know that you have it within you to fight for 35 whole days! Undoubtedly, you have grown"
This guy has been fighting presumably for 10,20,30 years. Another 35 days of white knuckling do not reflect growth - sorry

The fact he came back and shared is great and he'll grow in his own time and pace with Gds help

im sorry to say , there is growth and there is growth  , whiteknuckling may be a lower level of growth
but its GREAT , i think to say that it does not reflect growth is really not a thought out statement, the next thing youll know is that youll start playing G-D and say you know L.B. i dont even think you deserve any reward for those worthless 35 days.
please think before you post

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 21 Mar 2018 15:32 by ieeyc.

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 15:37 #328696

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ieeyc wrote on 21 Mar 2018 15:29:

Markz wrote on 21 Mar 2018 14:02:
Yerushalmi, for non addicts your post was great - keep them coming and keep sharing

You wrote "You now know that you have it within you to fight for 35 whole days! Undoubtedly, you have grown"
This guy has been fighting presumably for 10,20,30 years. Another 35 days of white knuckling do not reflect growth - sorry

The fact he came back and shared is great and he'll grow in his own time and pace with Gds help

im sorry to say , there is growth and there is growth  , whiteknuckling may be a lower level of growth
but its GREAT , i think to say that it does not reflect growth is really not a thought out statement, the next thing youll know is that youll start playing G-D and say you know L.B. i dont even think you deserve any reward for those worthless 35 days.
please think before you post

I think it can be GREAT and it can also not reflect growth, in the big picture. Not a contradiction in my eyes.
I don't believe he meant what you're assuming, that it was a waste of time and pointless.

Either way, I appreciate you coming to my defense but I'm a Markzist. I like his direct style. I'm pretty confident he thinks before he posts, more than many others here.
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2018 15:41 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 15:41 #328697

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Some people have Gds phone#, text him daily and know all about their reward and punishment

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Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 15:44 #328698

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The main greatness that can be found in it 
is that you are seriously intrested in change 
so much that you fought yourself so long
but if this is not the right direction for you then
keep on looking for the real recovory not white knuckling
as for g-d part thats not our intrest if you will get sechar
or not our job is to return to normalcy and get sober

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 15:58 #328700

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Hi Lifebound welcome back 
Hearing you speak about your fall, brought back memories about my fall, you see last october i attempted to stop cold and i also killed myself until i hit 33 days clean. (my Gye Username at that time was yankelthefighter feel free to check out my posts from that time period) and then i fell and when i fell i gave up hope of ever quitting until 3 months ago, when i got caught by my mother and that's when i made a commitment I MUST QUIT i told myself either i quit with talking to the chevra etc, installing filters, ETC or i must start going to SA (something i'm extremely embarrassed to do) but staying addicted the way i was IS NOT AN OPTION. I CAN'T CONTINUE LIVING THIS WAY! And b'h this shabbos i'll hit 90 days!
So When i think about why this time i was more successful than last time i think it was as you very clearly said in your post "I think the only reason I was able to stay away from porn for this long (35 whole days...) was because I knew in the back of my mind that I wasn't truly done with porn" that's what i felt last time i tried this time around i told myself I'M DONE WITH PORN and I MUST QUIT and if i need to go to SA i will because i Can't continue living with this addiction.

Dear Lifebound i want you to know this attempt wasn't a waste of time you learn't a lot, became extremely self aware and i'm sure once you regain your footing and truly realize "I'M DONE WITH PORN and I MUST QUIT and if i need to go to SA i will because i Can't continue living with this addiction" then that attempt will get farther but like i've heard from Dov many times i think without this realization which sadly usually only comes when people hit rock bottom it's hard to quit when as you said "i knew in the back of my mind that I wasn't truly done with porn which is what happened to me my 1st time around"

:kissing_face:LOTS Of LOVE YANKEL (i still love you dearly)
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Last Edit: 21 Mar 2018 16:05 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 16:04 #328701

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lifebound wrote on 21 Mar 2018 15:37:

ieeyc wrote on 21 Mar 2018 15:29:

Markz wrote on 21 Mar 2018 14:02:
Yerushalmi, for non addicts your post was great - keep them coming and keep sharing

You wrote "You now know that you have it within you to fight for 35 whole days! Undoubtedly, you have grown"
This guy has been fighting presumably for 10,20,30 years. Another 35 days of white knuckling do not reflect growth - sorry

The fact he came back and shared is great and he'll grow in his own time and pace with Gds help

im sorry to say , there is growth and there is growth  , whiteknuckling may be a lower level of growth
but its GREAT , i think to say that it does not reflect growth is really not a thought out statement, the next thing youll know is that youll start playing G-D and say you know L.B. i dont even think you deserve any reward for those worthless 35 days.
please think before you post

I think it can be GREAT and it can also not reflect growth, in the big picture. Not a contradiction in my eyes.
I don't believe he meant what you're assuming, that it was a waste of time and pointless.

Either way, I appreciate you coming to my defense but I'm a Markzist. I like his direct style. I'm pretty confident he thinks before he posts, more than many others here.

nope ,sorry, there is GREAT growth and there is GREATER growth,whiteknuckling probably is GREAT growth,and you are not the same person anymore, you and many others like you are doing GREAT THINGS ,and ther are those who imsure took it it the way i wrote even though M.  didnt mean it , unfortanetly it can be taken that way, so be careful, wont say names , simply because i dont want to be attacked  , but peoples Torah, Tefila , Teshuva etc...have been made verbaly into nothing because they are not on the road of GREATER growth, so please excuse me if i assumed M. is just parroting their way of thought, there are some people here who adopt a rough and tough way of talking because they  want to emulate  a certain ,person/s style ive seen their style  of talking /posting  change , even their words have similarities,im not talking about words like the-the, i mean words where the tuffy coined certain expressions ,(by the way the tuffy who im talking about has the heart of a teddy bear,) and this wasnt only a defense for you, glad you dont need it , but there are others who  read these posts 

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 21 Mar 2018 22:30 #328729

lifebound wrote on 21 Mar 2018 06:43:

  • I'm sick of this. I hate it so much. That's what I've been telling myself all along. Yet I now realize that I love it so much. Watching porn this time, after my longest clean streak, was the biggest relief ever. It was like greeting an old friend. Do I really want to stop? Yes! but not at the expense of sweet porn...which obviously makes no sense...
  •  .................... So what does that mean? Do I have to commit to never watching porn or lusting again, forever?


Dear Lifebound,
Thanks for having the courage and strength to share openly  about your experiences....I have been there many times.....I'm sick of this. I hate it so much.....and then doing it all over again. Total insanity!
Yes....After my last 90 streak masturbation was the biggest relief ever.
....... greeting an old friend    definitely relate to this feeling....BH for me getting sober this time around is actually like greeting an old friend .IMHO  just like  pathways are created  in the brain from continuing to act out....that are also pathways of recovery created when taking actions of recovery. So BH I am still able to access some of those "pathways"..Bezras Hashem  you will too...

Do I really want to stop? Yes! but not at the expense of sweet porn... These thoughts and feelings were running constantly in my head during my relapse! Yes,it is sweet..that is why it is called "eye candy" but I am a "candy addict" one is too much.....and a 100 is not enough.  and then comes all the guilt and shame which is not sweet at all.

Re: My sorry state... 22 Mar 2018 11:04 #328739

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LB I really love your honesty. It's helping me immensely.
I want to say goodbye to this old friend now.. Just for today at least..
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
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Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 03:56 #328795

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Lifebound, as many before me have written, your honesty and courage are a breath of fresh air. The feelings you describe of how sorely you missed the sweet pornography and masturbation are things many here can relate to very well. However you decide to proceed, may Hashem help you find serenity and simchas hachaim. We are all here for you despite varying opinions and personal leanings. Stay part of the chevra so we can iyh celebrate together (and in the meantime, we are here to share your pain)
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Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 04:45 #328798

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 23 Mar 2018 03:56:
Lifebound, as many before me have written, your honesty and courage are a breath of fresh air. The feelings you describe of how sorely you missed the sweet pornography and masturbation are things many here can relate to very well. However you decide to proceed, may Hashem help you find serenity and simchas hachaim. We are all here for you despite varying opinions and personal leanings. Stay part of the chevra so we can iyh celebrate together (and in the meantime, we are here to share your pain)

Thanks HHM, and everyone else for the kind words and support.
I fell again today. Not out of the woods yet unfortunately. Having trouble getting motivated to get back on my feet, and unsure how to proceed.
Also dreading Pesach approaching, because that means tension, resentment and frustration which is a bad situation. Which reminds me of something I was going to write about but never did:

I realized a while back that I really don't like shabbos or yomim tovim. I attributed that to not feeling a connection to yiddishkeit and spirituality, so why would I enjoy a day that's all about spirituality, if I'm just going through the motions? That's the simple explanation that I still think is right, but last week I got a deeper understanding, with the help of others on here, which I believe is also true.
My life has been a series of distractions. I've never been forced to take a close look at myself, and discover what I'm all about and why I should enjoy life (spoiler alert: I don't). It's all been just running from one diversion to the next, I've never actually lived. Fiddling with computers. learning one random skill after the next. movies/tv/youtube. listening to/playing music. gaming. even, dare I say it, GYE in some ways! and of course, porn/masturbation. It's all been a way to escape from myself. (I'm not saying that these are all bad things, or that every second of a person's life has to be spent contemplating their existence. Music for example can be a powerful and good thing. But the fact remains that it's also just another diversion for me)

So when shabbos and yomtov roll around, I'm stuck! I don't have my usual distractions and I have to confront my true self and true life. That's what I'm resisting and dreading. During the week I go through the motions, but quickly distract myself afterwards so I don't have to dwell on it. On shabbos/YT I'm stranded, the only diversion is my own thoughts which just amplify the feeling of fakery and resulting guilt. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's what I think is going on.

So what is life? I don't know yet. See my username. That's why I'm here.
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2018 04:51 by lifebound.

Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 09:09 #328818

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I just want to pick up on this:

Fiddling with computers. learning one random skill after the next. movies/tv/youtube. listening to/playing music. gaming. even, dare I say it, GYE in some ways! and of course, porn/masturbation. It's all been a way to escape from myself. (I'm not saying that these are all bad things, or that every second of a person's life has to be spent contemplating their existence. Music for example can be a powerful and good thing. But the fact remains that it's also just another diversion for me)


I'm slowly accepting things about myself. That I love video games and game music, anime and stuff. And I know the overwhelming majority of us frummers don't have anything to do with it and some may consider it assur but I can't now 'deny' this part of myself and throw it away as a 'distraction' from 'real life'. Wouldn't be healthy for me anyway, I think, 'cos it goes like this:
I love these things but I shouldn't but I really do but it's wrong but it feels great and inspires me and stuff but it's not frum but I like these things but but but then I act out probably because I just feel guilty and stuff.

I want to be honest enough to embrace what I really enjoy in life. May not be derech ha'emes, but it's derech ha'me.
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

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Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 17:00 #328854

lifebound wrote on 23 Mar 2018 04:45:


I realized a while back that I really don't like shabbos or yomim tovim. I  I got a deeper understanding.......

My life has been a series of distractions..................to escape from myself. (I'm not saying 
So when shabbos and yomtov roll around, I'm stuck! I don't have my usual distractions and I have to confront my true self and true life. That's what I'm resisting and dreading. ........ shabbos/YT I'm stranded, the only diversion is my own thoughts which just amplify the feeling of fakery and resulting guilt. 


Dear Lifebound.....Very well articulated! You were mikaven to a befarshe Dr. Twerski!

Kuddos again for coming back to the forum and sharing openly and honestly which are critical components of recovery Honesty Openness and Willingness.

I identify very much with the distraction addiction. Besides Lust,Masturbation,porn,and fantasy,and overeating my diversions include news (especially YWN,Linkedin and off course GYE and sometimes work)
Also, I  engage in the self-loathing and feelings of guilt which I now understand are toxic for me.

So,I just wanted to share something I read several years ago from Dr. Abraham Twerski,in his book called Let Us Make Man.His discusses the feelings of dread one experiences when  alone with oneself . He suggests that it has roots in feelings of low self-worth. This was really an eye opener for me because my default thoughts besides lust and anger,are self-loathing and self-pity.He further discusses that many folks who are intelligent,and capable and accomplished,ect will minimize their strengths and constantly focus on their deficits. My road to self-improvement began with an accurate acknowledgement and acceptence of my strengths,talents,unlimited potential for growth ect. 

May Hashem grant us all the honesty, openness ,and willilngness to accept ourselves and strive for continued growth and improvement. .

Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 17:31 #328856

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Sing: Guess it depends on the person and level of obsession with the 'distraction' but I think you're right. I did not mean to say that all distractions are bad and to throw it all away. Normal people need healthy diversions. The problem is when there's no foundation of life to be distracted FROM. If you're confronted with yourself and always want to run away, well, in my mind that's a pretty good indicator that you need to work on actually living.

AD: Thank you, actually this realization did come in a big way from reading the Rabbi/Dr Twerski hot tub story: 
guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/255161-Anybody-remember-wheres-R-Twerski--the-hot-tub#255564

I first became aware that I had a self-esteem problem at age thirty-eight. For three years, I had been director of a huge, 300 bed psychiatric facility with a very busy emergency room. If a nurse could not reach an attending doctor, I was called. Every other night I was on call to the emergency room. On a good night, I was awoken only five times; on a bad night, ten or more times.

I had a vacation coming, and was desirous of getting away from an impossibly hectic situation. I sought a vacation spot that would allow me to do nothing other than vegetate. I wanted no sightseeing or activities. I finally decided on Hot Springs, Arkansas, which promised to allow me total rest.

The industry of Hot Springs is horse-racing, which begins in mid-February. I reached Hot Springs in December, when there was nothing doing in town. Most of the stores were boarded up. It was the vacation spot I had hoped for.

Having had low-back pain for years, I thought I would take advantage of the mineral-water baths, which were touted as producing miraculous results. I was taken into a tiny cubicle, and an attendant gave me two glasses of hot mineral water which was naturally heated deep in the earth. Then I was put into a tub of these magic waters, and the whirlpool was turned on.

I felt I was in Paradise! No one could reach me—no patient, no nurse, no doctor, no family member, no social worker, no probation officer—I was beyond reach. And in this paradisical situation, I was bathing in nature's own hot-water. Who could ask for more?

After about five minutes, I got up and said to the attendant, "That was wonderful! Just what I'd been hoping for."

The attendant said, "Where are you going, sir?" I said, "Wherever the next part of the treatment is." The attendant said, "First you must stay in the whirlpool for 25 minutes."

I returned to the bath, and after five minutes I said, "Look, I have to get out of here." The attendant said, "As you wish, but you cannot go on with the rest of the treatment."

I did not wish to forego the treatment, so I returned to the tub for 15 minutes of purgatory. The hands on the clock on the wall did not seem to be moving.

Later that day, I realized that I had a rude awakening. I had taken three years of constant stress without difficulty, but I could not take ten minutes of Paradise! Something was wrong.

On return home I consulted a psychologist. He pointed out that if you asked people how they relaxed, one would say, "I read a good book," or "I listen to music," or "I do needlework," or "I play golf." Everyone tells you what they do to relax. However, relaxation is an absence of effort. One does not do anything to relax. What most people describe as relaxation is actually diversion. You divert you attention to the book, needlework or golf ball.

Diversions are perfectly OK, but they are actually escapist techniques. Work and diversion are fairly healthy techniques. Unfortunately, some people escape into alcohol, drugs, food or gambling.

In the cubicle at Hot Springs, I had no diversions: nothing to read, nothing to look at, nothing to listen to, no one to talk to, nothing to do. In absence of all diversions, I was left in immediate contact with myself. I could not remain there long because I didn't like the person I was with!

Why are people using a variety of escapist maneuvers? What is it that they seek to escape? Very often it is from themselves. If, as was the case with me, they have an erroneous self-concept, they cannot stand being with themselves.


I know I'm not saying any chiddush, this has been said by many others on here. Just dawned on me last week how true and applicable it is to me.

Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 18:22 #328864

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This wednesday i was sitting by my therapist's office after a very depressing week, were i felt extremely useless and very low about myself i looked at my therapist in the eye and i told him i can't anymore i'm about to hit 90 days clean a huge achievement for me so why do i feel so depressed. He sat there and he told me the way my thought process works which is always trying to judge myself and always beating myself up over every time i feel low or always busy judging my emotions or how do i feel what that is doing is just feeding my depression and low self esteem. And as such for beating myself up i end up feeling even more depressed so i feel even more like a zombie without the happiness the rest of the world seems to have. 
He told me here are the facts you are suffering from depression and by you getting upset at yourself and constantly beating yourself you are just feeding your depression.

The only way to live happy is to practice COMPASSION and ACCEPTANCE regardless of if my day went well or not you see Lifebound if i would be sitting and talking to you about how i feel worthless and zero connection to hashem etc i don't think you will start beating me up that I'm such a bad guy i think you will be full of compassion to me and tell me how even though hashem didn't make me feel an enjoyment for shabbos or davening etc, and i still keep shabbos usually make it to shul and you really want to feel a connection to hashem just hashem isn't sending me those feelings etc. why can't you be compassionate to yourself? And stop beating yourself up? And since thatsession I've been practicing not beating myself up and being compassionate to myself and so far i've been feeling much better 

Just some thoughts from my therapy session this Wednesday i hope they are helpful!

 Good Shabbos Love Yankel
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

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Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 19:41 #328865

iampowerless wrote on 23 Mar 2018 18:22:
 were  .............my thought process works which is always trying to judge myself and always beating myself up over every time i feel low or always busy judging my emotions ....... beating yourself you 
The only way to live happy is to practice COMPASSION and ACCEPTANCE regardless of ................compassionate to yourself? And stop beating yourself up? ................. i've been feeling much better 
.

Dear Yankel:
Very well said! Thanks for sharing this critically useful information for all of us who are struggling to recover or anyone who has embarked on a journey of self-improvement and spiritual growth!
I am truly inspired by your progress! Enjoyed chatting with you as well.

FYI , i heard that there is actually a live GYE (only frum guys) meeting in Lakewood in a private location.
I find the  "acceptance prayer" found on page 417 of the AA Big Book (4th Edition) 
"and acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today ect.. has helped me greatly. Let me know if you want me to E-mail to you. Wishing you a gr8 and sober Shabbos! and remember what comes after day 90.........is day 91 lol... 

Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 20:11 #328866

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That's​ great stuff Yankel, thank you very much for sharing. 

Truth is, all this talk and philosophizing about life and diversions is itself a diversion! It's all good and valuable stuff to be mindful about, but currently I need to think less and do more.

Re: My sorry state... 23 Mar 2018 20:37 #328869

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Hi Aryeh Dovid thanks for the info i enjoyed chatting with you as well.

Dear Lifebound glad you found what i wrote helpful i just wanted to clarify one thing you wrote ''but currently I need to think less and do more!''
you see this in this line you are once again beating yourself up!  

One thing i realized throughout my recovery process is i can't control what i think. What goes on in my head and thoughts i can't change hashem made my brain think like that. I just have to be self aware that i'm a  human being and sadly far from perfect so the fact that my head is going in a direction of being negative, and beating myself up that's how hashem made me so instead of fighting a losing battle to try to get rid of my thought's i just ACCEPT whatever thought's hashem sent my way and then i practice COMPASSION to myself the same way i'll be compassionate of another jew who shares his struggles with me. Because i'm not less than a fellow jew just as i realize i won't be helpful to my fellow jew if i beat him up for thinking of things he so badly wishes not to thhink about, but rather the way to help him is by being compassionate i also won't grow from beating myself up about why my thought process did what it did!

Hope i made myself clearer you see this tools of practicing ACCEPTANCE and COMPASSION are not just for our actions but also for our unwanted thought's

 Love Yankel
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes
Last Edit: 25 Mar 2018 03:45 by Iampowerless.

Re: My sorry state... 25 Mar 2018 01:57 #328877

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very interesting! i heard a similiar thing from Rav Miller ztl when you are eating breakfast you are doing chesed with someone,with who ?with this jew (R`Miller pointed at himself when he said that) he said if you feed another jew are you doing chesed ?of course! so what difference does it  make if the jew happens to be yourself!Hatzlacha  and thanks for sharing!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 25 Mar 2018 18:44 #328918

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someone wanted to say that the lowest karma s/o can get is a -6 but more than that (-7) it wont go because they dont want anybody to get too embarresed

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 25 Mar 2018 18:46 by ieeyc.

Re: My sorry state... 25 Mar 2018 21:07 #328925

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I believe the record is -98. Are you humble enough?
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends

Re: My sorry state... 25 Mar 2018 22:41 #328929

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 25 Mar 2018 21:07:
I believe the record is -98.

Who was that??

Re: My sorry state... 25 Mar 2018 23:10 #328930

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he doesnt want anyone to know "mayrov  onvisanuso"-"due to his great humility"

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 00:08 #328935

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 25 Mar 2018 21:07:
I believe the record is -98. Are you humble enough?

i appreciate you telling me how much more i have to go ,i was feeling  a bit haughty  that i reached -10,but -98 was from the pre-legistlation days when there was no negative limit, but now i think the limit is -10 if someone presses  the - sign it goes from-10 to -9and so on...,anyway even i admit  i overstepped the boundries of thread highjacking ,sorry lifebound,have you tried reading the archives chizuk emails they are really powerful

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 26 Mar 2018 06:03 by ieeyc.

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 02:01 #328937

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lifebound wrote on 25 Mar 2018 22:41:

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 25 Mar 2018 21:07:
I believe the record is -98.

Who was that??

Nevermind, found him.

ieeyc, you currently have the 2nd to lowest karma on the site but if you're feeling haughty about that, I don't think it should count because you've literally been asking for it...

And thanks for the suggestion but chizuk emails only go so far

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 02:50 #328939

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ieeyc wrote on 26 Mar 2018 00:08:

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 25 Mar 2018 21:07:
I believe the record is -98. Are you humble enough?

i appreciate you telling me how much more i have to go ,i was feeling  a bit haughty  that i reached -9,but -98 was from the pre-legistlation days when there was no negative limit, but now i think the limit is -9 if someone presses  the - sign it goes from-9 to -8 and so on...,anyway even i admit  i overstepped the boundries of thread highjacking ,sorry lifebound,have you tried reading the archives chizuk emails they are really powerful

Do you mean to say I have been hitting the wrong button a whole time? If Minus adds, then Plus would minus.
I'm a little out of the loop here.
ieeyc, did you choose to be the guinea pig to test how low the karma can go?!?
My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 06:00 #328946

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its a dirty job ,but somebodys gotta do it!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 07:38 #328947

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lionking wrote on 26 Mar 2018 02:50:
Do you mean to say I have been hitting the wrong button a whole time? If Minus adds, then Plus would minus.
I'm a little out of the loop here.

It's pretty much the same as your last loop:

For (i=0, i<100, i++);
printf("karma is optional");

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 10:56 #328948

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lifebound wrote on 26 Mar 2018 07:38:

lionking wrote on 26 Mar 2018 02:50:
Do you mean to say I have been hitting the wrong button a whole time? If Minus adds, then Plus would minus.
I'm a little out of the loop here.


It's pretty much the same as your last loop:

For (i=0, i<100, i++);
{
printf("karma is optional");
}

tsk tsk. This is why there's so much confusion
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


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Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 12:20 #328951

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Singularity wrote on 26 Mar 2018 10:56:

lifebound wrote on 26 Mar 2018 07:38:

lionking wrote on 26 Mar 2018 02:50:
Do you mean to say I have been hitting the wrong button a whole time? If Minus adds, then Plus would minus.
I'm a little out of the loop here.



It's pretty much the same as your last loop:

For (i=0, i<100, i++);
{
printf("karma is optional");
}


tsk tsk. This is why there's so much confusion

Was waiting for someone to catch that. Didn't want to lock him in brackets, to give him a chance to break free.
៛{°¿°}៛
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Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 13:28 #328952

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hey you guys are hijacking my thread!oops, sorry i forgot this is not my thread:flushed:.

technology is amazing! gye was able to block my username from recieving anymore negative karmas but at the same time it works for everyone else, i think someone complained to them whats going on,it probably was the -98 guy ,he was getting a little nervous that im catching up,or catching down ,whatever.

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 26 Mar 2018 13:31 by ieeyc.

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 16:45 #328953

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me and my big beak ! i really think gye is  takeing matters into there own hands and reset my karma to 0, DISCLAIMER TO ABOVE POST:gye  really didnt  block my username from recieving negative karmas ,it was just a pshycological trick to get people to press the - sign to see if gye really blocked it, but now that its up to zero i think  i put my foot in my mouth.can any one  "smite" me to see if the - sign  works, this really is not a trick .

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: My sorry state... 26 Mar 2018 21:18 #328961

lifebound wrote on 23 Mar 2018 20:11:

............talk and philosophizing about life and diversions is itself  It's all good and valuable stuff ............. I need to think less and do more.

Thanks lifebound for sharing. Hope you are feeling better today. 
Regarding the above post,while i guess the Ba'alei Mussar would advocate,making careful cheshbonos prior taking action or making decisions...... in the Recovery Rooms, I have heard the concept of "overthinking" which is what i thing your are describing.
I engage in this on occasion,most recently,i am thinking about how I will be able to handle free unstructured time during  upcoming Chol HaMoed  (prime time for me to watch porn ect...) i guess making a plan is not such a bad idea....but i was advised ...to keep the focus on having a sober day today..one day at a time.

Re: Journey of life 13 Apr 2018 08:52 #329681

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I don't know yet what I need to do to get out of this state. I don't know what exactly my path to recovery should be. I don't know if this time around will be different. But here are a few things I DO know:

- I can't afford to waste time. I spend too much time agonizing over wasted time, wishing I could roll back the clock, wishing I started years ago. But that just wastes more time, and I don't get anything done.

- This self-pity has to stop. It's stupid, selfish, and accomplishes nothing. Easier said than done, but it's been the main reason why I've wasted these last few weeks. (to that end, I've changed my dripping-in-self-pity thread title from "My sorry state...". My state is definitely not sorrier than many others here. And even if it is a bit sorry, I don't need that hit of self-pity every time I log on...)

- Staying connected is super important. I can't keep isolating every time I feel a bit down. Avoiding everyone is very harmful to myself. Also has the nasty side effect of ignoring people who reach out to me when they need help, which makes me feel very guilty. (That's a selfish reason, I know...but I feel bad knowing maybe I could've helped someone avoid a fall, but was too wrapped up in myself to reply)

- My life as I've known it until now, is over. One way or the other, I cannot spend the rest of my life in this state. As I believe Dov puts it, lust and porn and sex with self is not my problem. It's the solution. My problem is living without those things. If I don't succeed in addressing my issues with living, I'm going to throw it all away and start over. New life. New place. At least that way I won't look back in 20 years and wish I had changed my life in some way, while I had the chance. Knowing that, I have nothing to lose in first trying anything and everything to start living, without throwing it all away. I commit to doing whatever it takes.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading my ramblings and for accompanying me on my journey.
And thanks to everyone who's reached out the last few weeks, sorry for not being responsive.

Re: Journey of life 13 Apr 2018 11:22 #329683

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Very well written. Instead of agonizing and "thinking", maybe just reconnect to whoever has been reaching out to you (at least to those that you have found helpful in the past) and get going......
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

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Re: Journey of life 17 Apr 2018 04:42 #329865

lifebound wrote on 13 Apr 2018 08:52:
I don't know yet what I need to do to get out of this state. I don't know what exactly my path to recovery should be. I don't know if this time around will be different. But here are a few things I DO know:

- I can't afford to waste time. I spend too much time agonizing over wasted time, wishing I could roll back the clock, wishing I started years ago. But that just wastes more time, and I don't get anything done.

- This self-pity has to stop. It's stupid, selfish, and accomplishes nothing. Easier said than done, but it's been the main reason why I've wasted these last few weeks. (to that end, I've changed my dripping-in-self-pity thread title from "My sorry state...". My state is definitely not sorrier than many others here. And even if it is a bit sorry, I don't need that hit of self-pity every time I log on...)

- Staying connected is super important. I can't keep isolating every time I feel a bit down. Avoiding everyone is very harmful to myself. Also has the nasty side effect of ignoring people who reach out to me when they need help, which makes me feel very guilty. (That's a selfish reason, I know...but I feel bad knowing maybe I could've helped someone avoid a fall, but was too wrapped up in myself to reply)

- My life as I've known it until now, is over. One way or the other, I cannot spend the rest of my life in this state. As I believe Dov puts it, lust and porn and sex with self is not my problem. It's the solution. My problem is living without those things. If I don't succeed in addressing my issues with living, I'm going to throw it all away and start over. New life. New place. At least that way I won't look back in 20 years and wish I had changed my life in some way, while I had the chance. Knowing that, I have nothing to lose in first trying anything and everything to start living, without throwing it all away. I commit to doing whatever it takes.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading my ramblings and for accompanying me on my journey.
And thanks to everyone who's reached out the last few weeks, sorry for not being responsive.

I like this post. Especially the part about changing the title of the thread. Good move.

Re: Journey of life 17 Apr 2018 13:13 #329876

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Re: Journey of life 29 May 2018 06:12 #331478

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Been a while since I posted on my thread, but I think today warrants an update.

I've had a crazy last few months. I was in freefall, hitting new lows, completely out of control.
About two months ago, God gave me the clarity to comprehend how destructive this path is. I realized my life cannot continue this way. I had two choices: Either I was going to give in to lust, throw away everything else, and let my life run its course to depravity and ruin, or I was going to do whatever it takes to actually start living, no matter how terrifying it is. Thinking and agonizing were getting me nowhere, I had to start DOING.

So I did the unthinkable, contacted Relief and got a recommendation for a therapist. That first session was crazy, a surreal experience. I told him everything, my entire history, my deepest darkest secrets - all the things I swore I would take to the grave. After a couple sessions he told me that we were dealing with a real addiction, and if I was ready I should join SA. You're never really ready I guess, I've never been more petrified of anything in my life. but I had committed to doing whatever it takes. Today was my first SA meeting. All I can say is, it wasn't me that walked up those steps and opened that door, I could not have done that on my own. There's no question in my mind that I got to this point because God allowed me to. It was all Him, granting me courage and prodding me along. This is only the beginning and I pray that He continue allowing me to go down this path, to start living.

And to everyone on here who has given me support, pushed me in the right direction when I needed pushing, and shared their experience, strength and hope - whether it was on my thread, or your other forum posts, or thru chat/text/phone/in-person conversations: I would not be at this point today without you all, thank you.
Last Edit: 29 May 2018 06:14 by lifebound. Reason: punctuation

Re: Journey of life 29 May 2018 13:24 #331483

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Thanks for all your shares and especially this one. Truly Inspirational!
KUTGW!
May Hashem grant you success in all areas of your life!

Re: Journey of life 31 May 2018 19:24 #331591

Dear Brother Lifebound,
I am truly humbled and inspired by your openness,honesty  and acceptance.
Your  tremendous perseverance and growth are a source of strength for all of us who struggle.

Your recent courageous actions are an awesome example and a source of support and encouragement to us all throughout this journey.  I am grateful to be part of your network! 

Re: Journey of life 01 Jun 2018 02:20 #331612

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lifebound wrote on 29 May 2018 06:12:
Been a while since I posted on my thread, but I think today warrants an update.

I've had a crazy last few months. I was in freefall, hitting new lows, completely out of control.
About two months ago, God gave me the clarity to comprehend how destructive this path is. I realized my life cannot continue this way. I had two choices: Either I was going to give in to lust, throw away everything else, and let my life run its course to depravity and ruin, or I was going to do whatever it takes to actually start living, no matter how terrifying it is. Thinking and agonizing were getting me nowhere, I had to start DOING.

So I did the unthinkable, contacted Relief and got a recommendation for a therapist. That first session was crazy, a surreal experience. I told him everything, my entire history, my deepest darkest secrets - all the things I swore I would take to the grave. After a couple sessions he told me that we were dealing with a real addiction, and if I was ready I should join SA. You're never really ready I guess, I've never been more petrified of anything in my life. but I had committed to doing whatever it takes. Today was my first SA meeting. All I can say is, it wasn't me that walked up those steps and opened that door, I could not have done that on my own. There's no question in my mind that I got to this point because God allowed me to. It was all Him, granting me courage and prodding me along. This is only the beginning and I pray that He continue allowing me to go down this path, to start living.

And to everyone on here who has given me support, pushed me in the right direction when I needed pushing, and shared their experience, strength and hope - whether it was on my thread, or your other forum posts, or thru chat/text/phone/in-person conversations: I would not be at this point today without you all, thank you.

wow! i just read your earlier posts how its difficult for you to open up to others , and now you actualy  took that step!!may this be the start of accelerated hatzlacha and recovery!

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 06:24 #332138

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I acted out last night, was up most of the night, bingeing on porn for hours.
Thank God doing better now I think, I called my sponsor today, spoke to a bunch of other people, went to a meeting. Acting out is self-destruction, but the last few times it's been an opportunity to get more clarity about the nature of my addiction, and I'm grateful for that aspect.

Today's Daily Dose of Dov in the chizuk email was speaking straight to me, I think it has a lot to do with why I acted out. Sharing it here:

Might you be pitted against a greater foe than you estimate? One day clean, then three days clean, then one day.... What is happening here? Is it all about racking the days up? Is it a game? I honestly believe that a game is what many folks make it... and strangely, that method may work just fine for them and I have no criticism for them at all.But: is it working for you ?

All my crying, klopping al cheit and wishing I'd succeed does not make me really serious about this 'battle'. Taking it seriously does. And sincerity alone, has never won any battles. I needed real help and to take real measures to start really getting better "inside". Till then, nothing of any real consequence happened. Nothing but ping-pong.... and regarding ping-pong:

A string of clean days once in a while is very nice, but this business of counting the days can sometimes be one of the strongest weapons that tayva/lust addiction/the YH/self-defeating behavior (or whatever you wish to call it) has against you. I believe that the one thing that some of us can do to practically assure that we will fail again and just shlep along till we get really messed up, is to count the days clean. We are just letting the pressure build up without making any true inner change.

I am not posting this to you because it sounds good, nor just because it makes sense to me...but only because I have experienced it myself. Counting seems to be helpful for some people - yet total poison for others.

It starts with one ... and it ends with one .

The days we stay clean do not really 'add up'. They are over as soon as it is the next day. I have never seen a pile of days anywhere? Have you? As the sefer Gesher Hachayim tells us (and as Hashem tells us in the Sh'ma when He says, "Hayom" a few times), our time here is made of one thing: now . The past is over and the future hasn't happened to us yet. So there is no such thing as "being clean for two days," at all. It is just a fantasy.... and fantasy is apparently not your friend, nor is it mine.

It does seem to help other folks, but we need to look at what we are doing and admit if it works, or not, for us.

Last Edit: 13 Jun 2018 07:00 by lifebound.

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 10:13 #332149

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What was the original plan before you acted out? Call your sponsor when you feel like acting out (instead of after) ?

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 15:02 #332162

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mzl wrote on 13 Jun 2018 10:13:
What was the original plan before you acted out? Call your sponsor when you feel like acting out (instead of after) ?

Call my sponsor, call others in program, read from White Book or other literature, talk to God and surrender.

None of those things ended up happening. I hadn't really been making daily check-in program calls in general, felt weird doing that. But I realize now that if I don't do that on a regular basis, there's no chance that I'll do it when I feel like acting out. So I made a bunch of calls yesterday, went to a meeting last night and this morning, getting back on track with God's help.

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 15:15 #332164

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I hope you are not like me. I would feel like a burden calling a sponsor. It sounds like you have a plan and you just have to execute on it.

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 15:23 #332166

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mzl wrote on 13 Jun 2018 15:15:
I hope you are not like me. I would feel like a burden calling a sponsor. It sounds like you have a plan and you just have to execute on it.

Chances are I am very much like you.
I feel the same way, which is why I hadn't been making regular program calls. But that's what a sponsor and others are there for.

It doesn't matter what I feel, I need to take the appropriate action.

From the white book, page 147 (emphasis added):

"A hundred such incidents and I was beginning to learn that the key to doing what did not come naturally was surrender, the key to this whole program. The key to my own happiness. When I distrust my own feelings and just go ahead and do what's right, the miracle happens and I'm out of my dark hole."

Last Edit: 13 Jun 2018 15:37 by lifebound. Reason: grammar

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 17:36 #332167

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Sounds like a plan.

Re: Journey of life 13 Jun 2018 20:14 #332181

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Lifebound, you are an inspiration for so many here. Sorry to hear about the fall, but it takes great courage to share it. You are a great person and iyh will break free being that you are so dedicated. Hatzlocha from a chaver.
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Re: Journey of life 20 Jun 2018 15:21 #332484

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I heard a great SA convention recording yesterday with a concept that really stood out to me, and I think is applicable to a lot of my emotions, like shame and self-pity.

To paraphrase the main point:
Shame is a form of pride - the quick version of shame (or other similar emotions) is: "God, You made a mistake when You made me, I am beyond redemption. You can't handle me."

Sharing the relevant part here for those interested (8 minutes long):
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Re: Journey of life 20 Jun 2018 15:38 #332485

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When you feel ashamed you are telling yourself that you have done something which is below your standard of a worthwhile person. When you do something which is inconsistent with that standard you are actively lowering that standard. When you feel shame you are working to patch it up. So even though shame hurts like crazy it's actually a medicine for you ego. So I agree.

When I figured out that shame was a scam I was using, I resolved to never feel shame again because of my acting out, so to speak.

Re: Journey of life 20 Jun 2018 23:42 #332502

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lifebound wrote on 20 Jun 2018 15:21:
I heard a great SA convention recording yesterday with a concept that really stood out to me, and I think is applicable to a lot of my emotions, like shame and self-pity.

To paraphrase the main point:
Shame is a form of pride - the quick version of shame (or other similar emotions) is: "God, You made a mistake when You made me, I am beyond redemption. You can't handle me."

Sharing the relevant part here for those interested (8 minutes long):
This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

And as Brene Brown says: Shame is the most powerful, master emotion. It’s the fear that we’re not good enough.

Shame corrodes the very part of us that believes we are capable of change. 

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Re: Journey of life 25 Jun 2018 21:00 #332664

Thanks Lifebound for sharing this recording! I have wasted a lot of time and energy in shame and self-pity.

Re: Journey of life 07 Oct 2019 05:20 #344071

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hey lifebound !where are you?hope you’re doing well, we all miss you! Gemar chasima  tova!
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