Watson wrote on 26 Jan 2017 18:17:

For you are gettin' overly involved.

YouI are pushin' him towards a decision you want him to make, and perhaps it even frustrates you if he's not fully listenin'.

cordnoy wrote on 26 Jan 2017 18:23:

Sure. Do you see the irony in your post though?

In any case, I'm not going to go on about it anymore. I officially give up. 

cordnoy wrote on 26 Jan 2017 18:23:

I have not read this thread. I am abstaining from this conversation. Even with my very limited exposure, I think Cordnoy's concerns are valid. That's it, I'm out.

cordnoy wrote on 26 Jan 2017 12:48:


For sure, because he keeps on asking everyone to.

cordnoy wrote on 26 Jan 2017 18:23:

I have not read this thread. I am abstaining from this conversation. Even with my very limited exposure, I think Cordnoy's concerns are valid. That's it, I'm out.

You guys know I read these posts, right?
And Shlomo, I love how you write 2 posts how you are refusing to get involved.
I'm not a piece of meat, you know. 
I'm a real person, with real feelings.
If you are going to talk bad about me, 
which is ridiculous in its own right, at least don't insult me right here!

Watson wrote on 26 Jan 2017 18:30:

II thought about the irony before you posted and before I posted.

I am not, however, pushin' or insistin' you do anythin'. I also will not repeat this.

I simply said that I am concerned.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 26 Jan 2017 19:29:

II didn't notice shlomo talkin' bad about you.

Some people in recovery can't get involved in conversations that cause tension or pressure.

Ah good old Cords, where would we be without you?

I just want to say that this has been one of the most paycholigucakky interesting threads ever. It's pulled everyone in, and seeing the dynamics is sad and comical at the same time.

I am fully guilty of what I just wrote. So here's what I think.

We go in a circle- we tell Yosef what he should do, he insists that someone still has to tell him or that we didn't tell him yet.

He tells us off for being too mean, aggressive, etc for which he likely is right.

We tone it down and tell him what might work, he tells us why not.

And it goes round and round, and I don't see how the back and forth will go anywhere.

Both sides are talking at each other. The definitions are different- what does each side mean by willingness, dedication, addiction, trying- so we use the same terms that mean different things to each other.

Yosef, you'll find your way I hope; I think the whole dynamic here is pretty negative.

Shlomo, I'm with you.

Watson wrote on 26 Jan 2017 19:06:

What is this? It doesn't sound like Sinatra...

Maybe we can all agree to daven for Yosef's success......

Yosef I know you are reading this post. You are not a piece of meat. You are a dear neshoma who has obviously had your share of suffering. Everyone wants you to make it, and some feel they have good advice. Others are hear to listen to you share and help you come to your own conclusions. Everyone has a different style. Personally I have a challenging time with those who write in an indirect fashion but at the same time I realize that they really mean well. They put in the time to read our comments and care enough to respond. Where else could you or I share to the extent we do over here? These guys are real heros even if at times cynical, critical, unclear, or too blunt. They deserve our brochos!

Yosef, don't be insulted. Whether or not you appreciate what people are responding (or not responding) we are here for you cheering you along on each and every success. Keep the good news coming.

I do daven for Yosef. I do hope for the best for him.

This thread has defeated me. I made many errors of judgement, got sucked in to the problem and have not been part of the solution. That's not Yosef's fault, it's mine. Maybe I learnt a thing or two along the way.

Yosef, I'm sorry I haven't been any help. I hope you continue to strive for growth. I hope to be reading your success story soon.

Have a wonderful Shabbos.