hi everyone as i was reading one of the emails today about the twelve steps,
i felt that there is something that demands some explanations and that is:
why always say that the twleve steps are coming when torah and chassidus didnt work and you need to have something ELSE to help you taking care of addiction.

why not just say that just like when someone is going to a doctor it doesnt mean that his tefilah didnt work and therefore he has to go to a doctor to take care of it nor as the torah says "rak shivto yiten verapo yerapeh" because we have a sickness which is called addiction we need to use tools like the twelve steps which are really a part of torah since the torah itself says that is what you should do when you are sick.

i am saying that because i have read a lot of articles and in the beggining it was very hard for me to understand that very subject.

Welcome, and good insight. There's no one dogma here as to when, why or how the 12 steps should start playing a role in recovery. One of the reasons why I love this place. There are people here, sober people, who don't formally use the 12 steps, and others who use it and hold by it quite loyally. You'll find a wide range of approaches and arguments supporting those approaches. The bottom line is that everyone respects each other and invests in the success of each others' journeys.

My advice: stay very open minded, and flexible in your outlook.

That's exactly what we are saying. Did you see something that said anything else? The reason "Torah and chassidus didn't work" for me is because I have an allergy to lust and I'm sick. I don't react the same way other people do to it. I do believe that there are people who are much of an addict as I am that Torah has worked for (although it may not previously have), because they have found some or all of the tools and principles of the 12-steps in the Torah and have implemented them in their life. Some say go the Torah route and your recovery program through Torah. Others will say, why muddy the waters? If this is truly a sickness, go to proven methods that have helped thousands of other sick people.

What's most important is take action.

(Btw, not everyone who engages in lust is an addict)

first of all thank you for the explanation given!

i think there was a misunderstanding and i just want to say that (i love this website as well as the content and the way how ro fix the problem) the only thing i was trying to point out was the fact that some people (like me in the beggining) could not understand the very sentence of torah do not work, which really means as i read it many times that the way you thought you had to take care of your problem is not really the way torah itself wants you to take care of it as we see that so many rabbonim approved this website.

just likeit says in pirkei avis hafoch bah vahafoch bah dekula bah which means that the torah is the greatest source of wisom and therefore we should be able to find a solution to all of our problem in it.
(btw i personnally find a lot of the concepts mentionned in this website in chassidus etc.)

and therefore the fact that rabbonim said we should treat that problem this way makes it for sure a part of torah.

and my goal is to just remind people that doing what we do is really part of torah and every other article in this website is actually a part of our yiddishkeit and not something any diifferent than putting on tefilin in the morning

just like hilel was telling his students when he would go take a shower that he was going to do chessed so for us we are taking care of the problems we have by using all the tools available on this website.

i am very open to other opinions maybe that problem only occured to me but i nevertheless felt i needed to talk about it!