DanielTeshuva explained my point pretty well and Dov's reply is what I wanted to say (although he says it better)

I never meant to confuse you. All I am saying is that you have to avoid things that can lead to a fall. If that means you have to be more strict than an average person, so be it. One needs to do what is neccessary to stay clean.

Like Dov said in his reply some people stay away from GYE because it reminds them of their past sins and even that can be a trigger. I was going really well staying clean and was adding day after day to my account. I thought hat through GYE I had conquerred this lust-problem. My lifelong battle with lust was now over-so I thought.

Just when you rely on your own strenght, when you can do it all alone, when you thing you are strong, that is when you are at your weakest. I was, and I fell.

It made me realize that I need GYE. I need the chizuk, the forum, etc. I need to be reminded that I cannot make it on my own. I need haShem's help and I need the support of my chaverim. I need positive influences and I need to avoid the negative influences. I need a sviva tova!

I wish you all the best.

BringMoshiach613 wrote:


You are welcome!

Someone wrote me:





Hearing you. You may not be able to understand what I mean until after you spend a few weeks or months without resorting to your drug.

Then, on the day you turn to it in simple faith and trust again to save you from your boredom, desires, frustrations, etc - because it is in your basic programming to turn to it with complete faith that it will save you, of course - then you will have to decide if you have the right to use it....or if you surrender that right.

Very simple. Not easy, but simple.

And you ask "will it take away the...." - what does that mean, take away thee??? - what the heck is a "...????" You can say what you mean with me, chaver.

No, nothing outside you will be like a magic pill and "take away" anything. If you can succeed as a normal person should, then keep trying by all means. I am not kidding. But how have things been going till now, for you?

If you are as screwed up as many of us here, then you are one who uses your penis and porn for self-pleasuring in order to try to feel ok...in other words, to manage things (your life) better. That's just a fact, if you are an addict. And there is nothing wrong with trying to take good care of yourself! But apparently it has not been working very well, or you would not be here, right?

Or is the only problem with your habitual, secretive, desperate porn use and masturbation really just that 'it's a sin'? I really doubt that is most peoples' true motive for finally coming to GYE. It's that we realize we are real idiotic, compulsively doing these childish and destructive things over and over...and that we will keep doing them long into our older years (as many indeed do). And that we are liars and fakers to all around us.

OK. So then if you quit, you will soon (maybe after a month or two) realize that you are giving up that power, right, or whatever u want to call it , then something else will be needed to save you from your desire pain itself, your boredom with life, you conviction that you MUST have the sweet orgasms and sex adventures, the frustration you have with your mother, father, wife, boss, G-d, self, etc... - whatever you are running from.

That thing may be G-d (but it will have to be a new relationship with your G-d, for the one you have now is actually part of the reason you run to porn and masturbate in the first place), and it could be something else. It could start as one thing (like a recovery group, for example), and later become a different thing (as in, your G-d) - who knows? Who cares? That part is not that relevant right now. Can you accept that and move forward? Or do you need all the teirutzim beforehand? Gevalt, I hope not.

For, as of now, you are not even giving up a thing yet. You are still trying to master yourself and your desires! Good luck. Normal people can sometimes do that, especially with the help of the Torah. But addicts (like me) simply do not succeed. We need to recognize we are different than normal people, period. Even if porn and masturbation were mitzvos, we would be simply unable to do them - Hashem would patur us - for it becomes obsessive and crazy for us. We are addicts. As Jewish alcoholics are 100% patur from wine on Purim and Pesach - it is actually assur for them to have the daled kosos if wine was the only available liquid. 100% assur. They - like we addicts - are different than normals in just one area of our lives. Like those who have an allergy.

So if you are like me and powerless, there's no shame in it, just take off the gloves, throw them in the sheimos forever, and give up completely.

Then get the help you need to live calmly and one day at a time without your (our) longtime best friend: sex fantasy. Many addicts find that help in the 12 steps and the live groups that are learning to live by them one day at a time. Some need a good therapist to help, too.

The 12 steps do not 'get us' sober. Either we come to them humbly, having accepted that this fight is not for us, or we do not start the 12 steps at all. That is why I keep writing that the 12 steps are really only for addicts. The first step is the one contribution WE bring with us - our total inability to succeed. Giving up - not because as you probably see it, that it is a 'tactic' to win. But rather, because it's just the truth.

We have indeed lost the battle and finally see and accept that this battle is not for us. Just like alcoholics. They may struggle and fight for mastery over their diet, job issues, or whatever - but not over alcohol. The decorated Marine Major who is a drunk and finally admits he is alcoholic falls to his knees in tears and gives up just as totally as the 19-year old farm boy does and the 56-year old frum doctor does: a baby before G-d.

Hatzlocha,

Dov

Dov


The problem with lusting is that it takes on many forms.

Thoughts are just as bad as movies.
Pictures of clothed girls are just as bad as pictures of nude girls, if the reason for looking is the same.

It all fuels our addiction equally. So if I try to be clean by not indulging in one aspect, but I'm still indulging in another (e.g., looking at women on the street), the addiction is still being fueled and I will likely fall eventually.

It's like an alcoholic who is not drinking the booze, but if he is still fantasizing about the stuff he wishes he could be drinking, he is a dry drunk white knuckling it.

We need to give up "the right" to lust completely, which means that no matter what kind of opportunity we have, no matter how much stress we're under that we think we deserve to make ourselves feel good for a bit, the answer needs to be no.