Two weeks later ...things are still difficult .....but i look at things differently now ....im more accepting of the fact that i cant force anyone to do anything ....and i cannot be forced to force anyone to do anything and that if i made it thus far then it should continue ....and. if G-d forbid it doesnt i must know that while esotericaly i might be at fault but i am not required to understand all that at all times ....

And i just have to keep trying and not give up.....and maybe try to find and connect with others more especially if they are having a similar difficulty like myself......i can make it ....with G-ds help ....

Such a roller coaster this brain chemical addiction ....cause thats what this really is .....and my brain is no stranger to chemicals keeping me complacent .....

My whole life when i was little i was given many different medicines in the search for a "magic bullet" that would stop my endless anxiety.....but none were effective ....but thag doesnt mean my brain chemistry didnt get jolted around with each new try


Just like now ....each failure is marked by that same temporary high.....thats how my falls are confirmed ....and then all i have is my guilt and fear and shame ...my wife is not like most woman .....she completely understands .....or maybe she feels like what could she expect from a man who has now no outlet ....not that an outlet is truly a must ......i tell her thats not the way i want it to be ....even if she were ok with it i would never cheat ....on the other hand i cant let her do anything since she is still ill ....so i try to remind her that she is not the issue ....my addiction is ...and i keep going even as i fall cause a fall is not me giving up ......i would love to do a phone conference but i can never find enough time to do it or so i think ....i think thats the next step for me

Ive been looking at someof my recent progress in the 90 day chart and frankly the situation looks alittle grim ....i have narrowed my "acting out" behavior to two areas .....one is images ....which i actually have had more progress with....and one is with my wife ....

I feel down about my failures to follow through on my own initiative

Feeling down doesn't help the situation. We need to get 'up' and see what we can do better for the future.

Hatzlacha

MT

It is very unclear to me what the exact problem - the goal you are not reaching - actually is.

Is it clear to you, chaver?

One of the things the alcoholics have taught me is that it helps a lot to know what your problem is - and what it is not. Even though figuring it out will usually not solve it, it is impossible to approach it at all, as long as we are convinced that it is something else than it really is.

You are having such a hard time, so much pain, and no one can truly know what it is like to be in your shoes.

So...

Is your problem not having sex, or is your problem lusting?

It is one or the other, not both.

Or it is really something else entirely that has nothing directly to do with sexuality?

Hatzlocha

- Dov

PS. I have not been reading all your posts, but do not recall - until the above few lines you posted - that you opened up about a long history with any psychiatric issue of your own. Anxiety is a bear...I know. But at least you are among friends and there are many here who can empathize a bit. Hope you keep posting. And that your wife feels better and that the two of you can talk openly about how much you love each other and about what that actually means. Do you?

Its just soo....overwhelming .....the many different points my life is at .....on the one hand i have a family that loves me.....huge!! But they are also super dependent on me ......

I come from a system that was specifically built by its real founders to teach us "forgotten" children that we were to messed up to be useful and that our only way out was if we were super exceptional ....while others might have been able to get by being mediocre ...we had to be 110% in order to have the same chance ....or having a family would be pointless...or thats what i felt the larger world around me was really telling me ....but besides that i myself had a body thag without the intervention of modern science i would not even be at the hight i am now ....nor be able to have children ...fast foward to now where i have to maintain a house on a lower salary then i expected ....with debts ....and all my old mental issues still around ....whatever progress i have made in that area has actually only happened from alot of self introspection.....i guess im not soo much complaining about what is going on as much as i feel overwhelmed alot ....but i keep going ....cause i have to for the kids and i am happy to have this as my cause ....also im doing much better lately in the guarding my eyes and my brit ....although i still have to always feel like my guard can never be down ...especially with the world decency in free fall .....i think i have more to say but im getting blocked out .....

have been having an easie time with many of my old habits........m********* was never really a challenge , i simply dont really enjoy it .......looking at p**** is easier to remove from since i really have started to convince myself that it sucks anyway (no pun intended!!)

soo why all the falls?? lately i have had a problem with my wife .....that is o say keeping taharat mishpacha is alot more challenging than it was when we started out ......with her body in no routine .....and me being always under pressure and she always wants me to feel better ......sooo 1+1= all kinds of falls.......we both want me to be happy .....i know i will be happier if i dont give in to lust and wait for her to be able to go to a mikveh .....this issue cant last forever and we are working on a medical answer for it ......but in the meantime i have had nights where i cried because i allowed myelf to get to close to her ........and whats worse i feel like imnot respecting her enough this way ........

she herself says she doesnt feel slighted by all this and she is sooo understanding its ....wow!! ........i just am having a had time patching this problem and its worse then the other stuff .......cause m******* doesnt even have more then a remez in the torah and looking .....while its super important to guard and all that but its easier to deal with if it doesnt work 100% .......this is 10000000% assur min hatorah and i am screwing up and risking everything i have .....and i dont have much and what i do have is tooo important to lose .....

any and all feed backis appreciated.......i really need chizuck .....i just feel like alll i want is for G-d to say "yes you messed up but i get it and if you conrol yourself noww i can forgive all of this and fix all your problems" .....cause only He knows how much pain and sufferin i have brought into the world from this

im am soo full of fear and anxiety ......but maybe thats just my anxiety disorder

For me sobriety has to be the number priority. If it's not the priority I can't have it at all. So whatever it takes to stay sober is worth it.

That might sound insane. You might think "you mean to tell me that sobriety is more important to you than your wife, your job, your health, your yiddishkeit! I can't accept such a thing!"

I hear ya, but it's OK. Sobriety being the priority doesn't mean that everything else has to suffer. Quite the opposite. Sobriety is a gift that keeps on giving. It makes my relationship with my wife better, my job better, my health better, my yiddishkeit better as well as many other things.

And this comes from a guy who still hasn't ever got to the magical 90 day mark. I daven to Hashem that I should soon know what sobriety feels like after 90 days.

I need to ask, what do you do on a daily basis to stay sober?

Dov is of genius level intelligence!!

I realize here that being sober or not has more to do with personal goals and views than i realized

My actual goal i realize is simple .....keep to the rules of taharat mishpacha ....and shmirat brit and enayim.....and any deviation is as a result of lust addiction .....i have made tremendous strides in the last 2 years ....but i have also uncovered major real obstacles.....and setbacks ......


As always i am usually most concerned over two things...one keeping sober and learning to love sobriety enough and two the very real or at least what i perceive as consequences of my falls ....especially my recent ones ....

I constantly feel extreme sorrow over any fall ive had and my mind plays them back for me over and over ......i constantly feel only desire to be forgiven .....and i just have a lack of emunah on that area....why should i be obsolved of things i did wrong when others are not ....and justice is justice .....i feel like i have fallen too low ......but as always i hope against hope and keep trying anyway ....

laughingman wrote:

Laughingman - this has been a challenge for me for a long time... I fall, and then get down about how can I ever get back to where I was? I can't undo the past, and this is a major aveira... so I've found myself thinking that if only I could just stop, then I'd "prove" to Hashem that I was really sorry after the last time... but then, OH NO! I fell again, c"v. And felt even more down... but if only... etc.... it's a vicious cycle that ultimately wound up with me wanting to give up... because it felt "hopeless" for me... etc. And that frame of mind only led to more acting out, oy. And I was there... just 3 weeks ago.

A big part of my problem - not all of it, but a significant part - has been keeping the right attitude (taking one day at a time is crucial, i.e. "what do I need to do right now?") and doing something (as I think Dov likes to say)... getting out of this little "world" (read: "treadmill") in my mind.

Please forgive me for doing so, but I'll use my sports analogy again... Hashem is the "League" Commissioner, Referee and Scorekeeper... my job is just to be a player according to Hashem's rules (Torah)... and to keep playing (darnit) regardless of what is going on in the game... that should be my only focus. If a player in looking up at the scoreboard more than he's focusing on playing, then he'll inevitably not play as well as he can... after all, the fundamentals of playing are the same, regardless of what the score is!

I hope this makes at least a little sense and is helpful.

Hatzlacha and bracha to you and your wife.

-- Larry

i have had alot of falls lately and by alot i mean more this time of year this year then any other time since the last year and a half .....i have 400+ days in the last year clean and now i am unravelling at the seams !!!



i have had alot of disappointment lately in my life and it just seams to be getting harder .....maybe its a result of these prolems i am having and like a vicious cycle they fuel more frustrating failures ......on days i am clean i feel soo relieved and strong .....especially after lasting a long time

most days i only think of being ok for "today" and especially since G-d in his wisdom nd mercy has made my wifes illness ....if not more managable but at least we have a better understanding of what is probably happening ........but at the same time we are having a hard time keeping up ....and very few who care to cut us the slack we need and less who would actually help us .......

school changes, difficult school bus issues, and much more ......and i dont deal well with anxiety .....its dawned on me that years of adolecence spent taking different medicines may have permanently affected me


sometimes i fall cause i kinda just give in to whatever my passion tells me .....but i know in my haert it only harms myself and others .....the hallmarks of a well-stewed addiction ...........i have therefore activated and acted on my taphsic oath and in that merit i only wish He would take the fight from me and win for me .....if only i would let Him

i have not updated my chart and i am considering resetting it entirely

i am waiting till i have had three weekdays clean .....soo see you on yom sheni next week if i make it

Hatzlacha and bracha to you and yours, Laughingman... we're pulling for you.

One thing that sometimes helps me pull through a difficult triggering episode is the fact that pressing the " im still clean" button is a much deeper kind of good feeling....the feeling of accomplishment that acting out can never match cause a person knows when he is doing out of addiction ......

Laughingman

I have just read through many of your posts on this topic. Your writing is very clear and your posts are thoughtful and heartfelt. You have inspired me by what you say and the way you say it.

To be able to direct your mind to go so many days clean, as a fellow lust-addict, is proof.

I wonder if sometimes you are too hard on yourself and that sometimes being so hard on yourself almost makes falling inevitable.

When I was very young in my 20s I was at a sales training seminar given by a guy by the name of Tom Hopkins and he started out by saying "You are what you think about most." His point was if you want to become a great salesperson, you must think of yourself as a great salesperson.

Years later when I was sitting in the introductory course to Yiddishkeit by Rav Noach Weinberg he was explaining Somach B'Chelko from Pirkei Avot 6:6.

Rav Noach said it you are going to be happy sometimes you just have to play the role of the Happy Joe. Pretend you've got a part in a play and you are the Happy Guy.

It seems to me that being happy with our life is not only a prescription for acquiring Torah, but also breaking our addiction.

Eli