now if i edit that you're gonna look weird....

cool!

wow it totaly passed me by that I just had post # 770

yechi!

MBJ, you are a true inspiration!!

This is my 90 days journey, so I feel I should write an update on my 90 days journey.

My last post was 56 days ago. so in those 56 days I have gone from 33 days clean to 89 days clean. I have not posted on here, because I did not feel the need to post on here. Frankly, I view that as a good thing.

So today being day 90 and then I get to the Wall of Honor again. yay. Actually the number that I really have my eye on are the cumulative days clean. I am currently at 290 or so. I am looking for that to get to 365 days. That will be a few more days than the actual length of my journey, but not that many more, and for that I am profoundly proud and grateful. I really feel that this past 10 months have been extraordinarily transformative. I know I am not THERE, I may never get THERE, wherever THERE is, but I know I am on my way.

However, (isn't there always a however) I feel that I am stagnating. My whole purpose here, my whole motivation was to improve my marriage. Yea there were secondary and tertiary reasons, but the first real motivation and push was for my marriage. I somehow feel like I can't proceed without an improvement in that. I feel like there has been no steps forward because it is like a dance. I need to take several steps and my wife needs to take a few, perhaps less than me, but she still needs to. but she is still in the same place she was. She is not moving, and I don't feel like moving anymore, so no one is moving.

So I gave Dov's advise consideration and I didn't bring anything up for a while for 2 months or so. But I couldn't hold back anymore so I brought it up again. It was not pretty. She was going on about pressure of the kids and pressure of Aliyah and pressure of finding a job and now pressure of going to that job. And I don't deny her any of these things, they are all true and valid.

What I told her is that I don't want her to feel like she had to perform for me. I don't need to have sex everyday like we were newlyweds. That sex is still far down the horizon. I tell her that I want to be part of the solution not the problem. Someone she can turn to to make her life easier, not harder. She heard me, but I don't know if she accepted what I had to say.

I did tell her that I wanted us to listen to the Pamensky series together. For me that could be an important first step. Either it helps and great or it means we need even more help than that. But either way I need something proactive, some positive momentum, because right now we have none whatsoever. Part of the problem of course is that she has no desire right now to invest in me or our marriage. But I not willing to wait any longer because there is always an excuse.

well written
congrats on the 90 and many more
I had similar talk with my wife this mornin'
gonna post shortly

one question please: if youre not willin' to wait, what is it that youre gonna do about it?

thanks

bhatzlachah

My strategy up until now has been to be patient and be a good boy. It has worked to a degree. It has helped me improve myself. It has helped me see my wife in a better healthier light,

As I said though, now I feel sort of stuck. I feel like I have worked on myself, built up my potential to be a better husband, I hope, with respect to intimate matters. G-d knows that in the past I have not been. Now I need to see if my personal growth journey has been worth anything, or if it is just so much hot air.

Now I know this is a catch-22 because if I want to be a better husband in intimate matters I must continue to be patient and not pressure her. On the other hand, I don't know if I really am, when rubber hits the road so I want to test it. If I am just spinning my wheels here, I want to know so I can try a different path.

I console myself with this, I am not looking for sex and lots of it. At some point in the future when our relationship has returned to the level where that is possible of course I want to resume THAT relationship. I just want so sort of physical connection. Something that tells me she is on some level, even deep down, still interested.

So to answer your question, I am not going to wait with infinite patience. I am going to press the issue gently. But not wait around for her to make the first move toward reconciliation, because I have given her a lot of time to do that and she has not. Obviously I must approach this with wisdom. I can't do a full court press because that will only cause her to pull back further. But I can every so often maybe give a gentle reminder that there is something amiss and I wish for things to be different. So maybe that is not much, but as with all things I must remain calm and steady. I have to remember that while we are both at fault here, more than 50% of that fault lies on my lap.

On a happy note when she went to bed last night (she always goes to sleep before me but I usually come in to say good night) SHE gave me her hand to hold. I think that is the first time in a few years that she had given me her hand. I have held her hand under my initiative, but not from hers. Those few minutes were priceless for me. I just hope this is the start of something, and not the only thing.

Ok I'm here.

Mazel Tov and Congratulations!

From one new 90 dayer to another!

With regard to fixing your relationship with your wife, I'm a little out of my depth but here goes nothing.

Sounds like you are definitely making progress, your wife initiating the affection last night. Don't ever forget that, but at the same time make sure not to lose that headway. Like Dov said work on yourself and eventually your wife will notice and be ready to meet you in the middle. As stressful as I'm sure it is, though I can hardly imagine, don't get ahead of yourself and push to hard. (It sounds like that was a problem 2 posts ago but you sound better in today's post.)

Also, can I recommend The Shmuz. Rabbi Shafier just put out a series on marriage which is phenomenal. Maybe that would be of help.

Hatzlacha with your life and your wife,
NeedToQuit

Thank you. I will check that out.

MBJ wrote:

Amen! It sounds like things are moving in the right direction! Just not as fast as you'd like. As a wise man once said - payshintz payshintz .

Dear MBJ,

1- You are so lucky to be taking this work seriously. That's rare for anyone to do. You will see good fruit as we do! Sorry, I lost the thread of your waiting and reconciliation being waited for: exactly what is it that she owes you an apology for? Please remind me, MBJ.

Whatever it is, is it a thing SHE believes she SHOULD have been doing for you (or, if it about something bad she did to you, does SHE see it as a wrong thing she did)? If not, then all the perfection you can arrive to will avail you nothing - for she is speaking a different language than you and you are expecting her to read your mind.

Please think this over. I am pretty sure I am missing the boat entirely...but can you just consider how this idea is playing out in your relationship as it stands right now?

2- You wrote:




It's so precious to read that you heard her out. Solutions (as we know) are not the main thing these ladies need or want - it is the attention, the listening we do, that they crave and really need. Maybe you listened a bit less back then, maybe you will listen better or more, now. I think that the less sex is on my mind, the better I actually listen - for there is no pay-off being waited for (always impatiently).

Hatzlocha, chaver. One day at a time...

- Dov

Hey Dov thanks for checking in. Your good words always mean a lot.

I am not waiting for her to apologize for anything. I don't need her apologies, and I have already given mine, I hope that she has accepted them.

What I do want from her, is some physical sign that she cares about me. Does that make me needy? Maybe, but I think everyone needs that someone to get affirmation from. When I was younger it was my dad, now it is my wife. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think I am a failure if I don't get that affirmation, at least not anymore, but it would still be nice to get. And also don't get me wrong, she does things for me, taking care of the house, the kids, laundry, cooking sort of etc etc etc. and that is wonderful and appreciated. But those things are not me. They are things that surround me and effect me, but not me. I want for me.

Believe me, I am not expecting a lot. I am talking about a hug, a simple kiss, a small touch, something. The best I get is when she asks me to massage her feet or neck or whatever. I am happy to do it, and I guess for her that is one way of connecting with me, but it is almost (like 99%) always me reaching out to her. My desire is that she reach out more, like she used to, before the kids.

That is what I am after. To understand why it went away, and what I can do to bring it back. So far I don't have an answer.

I forget that I have only been at this recovery thing for less than a year, feels like a lot longer. I am so impatient, that being patient with her and giving time is hard. I feel like we have already lost so many years, I don't want to lose any more.
I am the guy who reads the end of the book while in the middle, or reads the Wikipedia synopsis of a movie before I watch it. I want the cliff notes to my life, to heck with surprises. I just want to know how it all turns out, then I can enjoy it better.

She has an issue or two. And you and I have communication and surrender. We do not have much more than those two things. We certainly do not have demands...really. In a relationship, there are no real demands. There is coercion (which creates destruction of the relationship), and there is understanding and bargaining (which is part of growing up).

It's funny, but some of the 'potent' ways I thought I was proving to my wife how much I loved her, were meaningless to her. And it was not cruel of her to be blind to them - she really couldn't see love that way.

I think you may know where I am going with this. Time takes time.

Continued hatzlocha, my friend.

Yes, I know exactly where you are going with that, but man is it a hard lesson to learn and it is something that I struggle with.

A new line of thought that I have been having is that maybe expecting from her the things that I would like, even though they seem perfectly reasonable to me are just not her way of communicating with me. So maybe I have to try to tune into her wavelength and see how she projects love to me and be satisfied with that.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

That is why I want the cliff notes.

It sure isn't easy. But then again the best things in life never are.