yudel2123 wrote:


Don't forget: Even when the Ribbon(o shel olam) has you by the neck, he still has you

Eli

Mitchilo v'ad sof in the artscroll and cheap kid's megillah world, the wicked Haman is skinny, and often looks just like the types of images the Germans used to use to portray us 'evil Jews', come to think of it...hmmm...that's weird.

I guess fat seems too jolly to be really slam-dunkin evil...

Dov wrote:


I always thought this was a classsic example of skinny mean guy and fat jolly guy

To the midrashic fact-fettered oilem: "See! I told you so."

Thanks for finally clearing up all the sfeikos, Mr klezmer thingybob.

That's Klezmer DUDE not thingybob

Day 23

I was zoiche to speak on the phone yesterday with one the the members of this forum. I must say that it was quite an uplifting experience that gave me chizuk. Thank you friend.

Have a peaceful Shabbos

Eli

Dov wrote:


Do you think that's it's merely a coincidence that the bad guy from some fictitious Arabic country is holding a snake stick

Day 26

Honesty is my focus.

I told one of my best friends about my struggle yesterday. A little while back he opened up to me about a recent mental health issue that he was struggling with and how it affected his his shalom bayis.

We were talking yesterday and while discussing some of his recent (good) developments, I saw an opportunity to tell him that I was struggling with an illness as well. Honesty I told him was going to be the key (at least the key that I have to turn) to my recovery.

The focus on honesty has been a watershed moment for me. (I know that it's been less than four weeks since my last fall, but I know and I feel that his time it's gonna be different.

Thank you Dov and everyone else here

I just had a slip. It could have been prevented though. (even with safety mode on a search engine)

BH I stopped myself. Had this been during the pre "honesty" clean streak I probably would have fallen. I think my recent focus on honesty made me think to myself,"be honest. If you continue searching you will fall" It wasn't the thought of starting the 90 day chart. It wasn't the thought of what would my wife say. It was simply, "be honest. If you continue searching you will fall".

Eli

It's geshmak when you learn more from slipping than you learned from not slipping...but I think we all prefer learning less from not slipping...

I've had some minor slips, like accidentally coming across a really immodest picture/ad and not looking away quickly enough. That is histaklut.
But I have this immediate reaction to close my eyes and say the following to myself:

"Master of the Universe, I am caught in a moment of lust right now. If I try to overcome this on my own, I won't succeed and ultimately I will fall and/or continue to slip. I put my complete faith and trust in you to provide hashgachah for me and to remove my lust at the present moment, because I am ultimately a powerless creature and without you am doomed to fall. Thus I choose to cling to you right now and think of nothing else but your omnipotence. Please help me in this moment of lust"

I relax on the sofa, or curl up in my bed, close my eyes and just repeat this over and over again. For example, I did this today and it was amazing what a sense of relief came over me after I repeated this to myself three times.

I am not trying to be a source of wisdom for you. But I can 100% relate to the challenge of slips and it is very very hard. But I can say that in my journey to sobriety so far, I have tried this a few times and it's really the most powerful approach that I've ever been able to use in order to cope with a moment of lust.
And I spent almost 10 years NEVER being able to cope with a moment of lust and always giving in.

I hope you find something that works for you, not perfect, but just something to work with

Thank you Broadlife for the insight.

In my case though, in situations like this I try to determine if the slip could have reasonably been prevented.

When being honest with myself I realized that the overwhelming majority of the the time they can be prevented. I'll say a prayer either way, but most of the the time the payer need to be more of an "I'm sorry that I let this happen" rather than "Hashem, please get me out of this mess that you got me in to" (although elements of both are almost always appropriate"

Eli

reallygettingthere wrote:


I connect to this too. Sometimes I tried to pray to hashem "I'm sorry that I let this happen", but I don't think that worked for me.

For instance, let's say I was on the internet checking email, looking at sports, perhaps on facebook (not sure what your 'healthy' internet habits are...).
Suddenly, an ad comes up, or I see something I shouldn't see. But not because I intentionally searched for it, but it just came up.

So I don't think that in this situation for me it makes sense to pray to hashem "I'm sorry that I let this happen". It happened. That's part of living in the real world. If you try to argue that you need to completely close off those parts of the internet (facebook and youtube probably, but not yahoo sports and news sites in my opinion...), then I see 2 problems personally.

1. You are trying to 'control' the problem, not learn how to live with it
2. As a result of this you are not really dealing with your lust/addiction/problem. You are just putting it in one jail, and if you have a history of lusting you well know by now that he's smart enough to find a way out.

I haven't been an official 12 steps group person, and there are much more insighftul people on these forums who can speak to that. But I do continue to struggle with lust even after months of sobriety (although at this point not on a 'daily' basis).
What I can say though is that telling hashem I'm sorry I let this happen is a sincere form of tshuva which is very powerful and should occur. But in the context of improving character flaws, letting go, not being a control freak, accepting powerlessness and hashem's omnipotence, not cutting corners in avodat hashem, being 100% honest with yourself all the time, etc. (all these are ideas in struggling with addiction)...
I don't see the improvement that will come from telling hashem "I'm sorry I let this happen"

Slips are slips for a reason. If you come across a pop-up or stare at an immodest magazing cover for a second or more than a second, and then slap your hand and tell yourself, "this is wrong, and I know I struggle with this, but It's not becoming of me to act this way. And I know that if I try to 'control' myself, the lust will get me through some other path...so hashem I'm sorry (from a tshuva perspective) that I slipped. please forgive me. And I 100% honestly recognize that if I dont turn to you at this moment right now and recognize that only you can save me from the powerful lust/addiction that is part of my life. If I try to 'control' it right now in the supermarket, maybe when I get home I'll go on the internet...look some stuff up...who knows. But that's not sustainable for me. So I put my complete bitachon in you hashem! Please help me here."

I dont know if that was clear, but what I'm trying to say is that

"I;m sorry I let this happen"=tshuva, which is valuable, but can lead to being a control freak in the path to dealing with lust

"Hashem please save me"= (what dov and others have referred to as) Derech Eretz, which I completely agree with.

Just my thoughts, and so far what's worked for me, and the distinctions I see.
But maybe I misunderstood you, or dont have the full picture

BL,

Sorry for not being clear. I agree with you 100%. Closing myself off from the world is not an option. Each of us needs to honestly assess what we need (keeping in mind that psychological needs are also need)

reallygettingthere wrote:


And along those same lines, what Broadlife referred to in his prayer curled up on the quiet couch was so clearly described.

But I like to put these prayers into real life - to lead into rejoining my family, yeshivah, work, whatever...instead of looking for quiet time. Yes, some quiet time is sometimes absolutely necessary if just to get clear that I really can't afford thinking about this lust or doing xy or z, etc...

But 'quiet' easily converts into isolation. Unfortunately, isolation is a familiar, comfy-zone. So we need to stay busy as a direct result of our prayer and freedom.

And anyway, I have learned that being clean is of no real value for me in recovery. The value for me in being clean is so that I will succeed at being useful to my wife, family, Klal Yisroel, and whoever Hashem has put into my life. So I connect to them as the flipside of being relieved of my lust by G-d. They are one unit as far as I am concerned.

And this is one way to understand "Shamor v'zachor b'dibur echad ne'emru": they are really one. That's why He said them simultaneously. They are one because one leads to the other, otherwise neither have the value that Hashem intended for them. And this is also similar to how the Chazon Ish describes the interplay between learning Torah and the avodah of tefillah (see his slim sefer on Emunah and Bitachon).