Backto613,
I read your replies, and I hope it all works out good for you. Someone once told me here that as long as you are always doing something for recovery, no doubt you will succeed.
Hatzlochoh,
Your brother,
MB

613! you have a tool box full of good tools, and a binoculer to find any fault, looking for them, then fixing them, you are amazing, good luck!
the tanya quotes that depression results from vain (gaaveh), why?
because, I am so and so, therefore i deserve a better life, not such a faulty life, therefore i am not happy with myself, if we would be humble, then we would think, for me this is o.k. because who am i allready? i am a plain simple small fellow, i dont really deserve anything, and what i do have, is allready a big bonus, and i need to thank hashem for what he gave me, not blow the trumpet because he didnt give me what i think i deserve!

thanks guys


--- EVENT REPORT:

A rule I made early in this log was that everything is connected and so I need to report everything and honestly.

Two days ago I bought a pair of cotton tzitzis to wear at night. I hadn't done that before because of the way the thing is cut I worried about it becoming part of general chump's arsenal. When I first tried it on, I felt the early warning to slip, so I changed and moved on. At night the thought was more fleeting and only when I first put it on. I also was tired during the day so I had a snapple and a coffee later in the afternoon - and that can keep me up at night. I was quite restless. When i first went to bed all i wanted to do was get up and go to shul (more on that later). During the night I had some trouble sleeping and fell asleep late. In the middle of the night (an hour later) nondescript dream, I woke up and figured what happened, went to change and wasn't sure until i looked inside and saw that indeed I needed a change of underwear. Woke up earlier than usual, dunk and vasikin and I didn't have any urges from it during the day (yesterday), but last night I wore a t-shirt over the tzitzis.
No need for pity replies -- i honestly do not feel like I fell or slipped, especially because i did not touch any part of me or let myself to start thinking this stuff. The next afternoon I was pretty tired, but decided not to have coffee in the afternoon, took a ten minute nap in the afternoon and one hour in the later afternoon and felt great that evening. I might have been tired because I had 4 hours of sleep that was interrupted an hour in and the magic phase is wearing off, or, more likely, it may be due to the fact that this stuff saps all the koach from a person. Last night BH I slept much better.
-- I am putting this here because I am required to report on any attempt to advance by general chump. The one thing I thought about was if I really should have worn them, but the answer is becoming a theme - I need to fight him and this would have just ceded some territory to him. I also don't want anyone her to think of me as some kind of tzadik.

---- DETOX:

I think the first stage of my detox is ending. I must point out that my detachment was very extreme as you can see. Today I went to the bank and the store (time sensitive things were allowed, now I can also go something not urgent, but is quick). I will now allow: sorting through my emails (besides for just the necessary stuff). I can also listen to some recorded or live audio, but only shiurim as of now but nothing while driving. I can also take care of stuff on the internet -- starting with things I personally need to file. I am also allowed to go to GYE, aish and torah websites.

Report on Stage 1: stayed relatively vigilant.
I only listened to music when there was a guitar at a thursday night shmuz.
Watched one video on youtube on the first day.
My backup alarm clock was a radio alarm, but when it went off I didn't leave it on to listen.
Sometimes looked at the headlines and first lines that were visible on the paper as laid out.
I glanced over at the TV when it was on and I was walking past the area or needed to speak to someone. - and i did watch a live broadcast shiur on motzai shabbat in a shul (I think that one is okay).

--> On friday, I went to set the clocks in the living room and the news was on. I always thought of that as being safe, so I looked over. They put a picture of a woman in a provocative pose on full screen. The anchorwoman said about whomever this was -- that she did a shoot for a lewd magazine "but as you can see, she kept all her clothes on" I think it was part of her agreement. I didn't really see who it was or what she was doing -- I turned to it and back really quickly because of what I was starting to see. Nothing is safe. -- And YES that does effect me. remember on sunday I was waiting for my chavrusa and started to get sleepy, when I looked up the guy next seat over and across put his head down to sleep. I had to sit on my knees, which was painful at first, then I started to lose all feeling in my legs so it was okay, then I had to stand up -- and that was quite uncomfortable.

Now that I am shifting into "normal mode" I need to make a line of where that must end.
At the end -- no tv or movies (for me it may become a social issue, but I will do what I can)
business magazines and the newspaper may be allowed, but not in the bathroom -- although when I glanced to the newspaper during detox you would be surprised at the types of pictures they run.
Haven't decided on youtube - but if allowed, no more than 3 videos in a row, up to twice a day, preferably when other people are around
No internet/email/etc while eating or doing something else. -- except maybe music.
No secular music -- at least not anything explicit.
News radio and Jewish radio allowed


(I am not making a geder on general internet because it was never a trigger for me on its own. I only went on bad sites after i was pretty much ready and not the other way around. I often held off because I was waiting for the net, or trying to distract myself in the hopes I would go away, which worked a very little bit.)

-- SHVIRAS MIDDOS

Many people have heard that anger is the result of gayvah. I have been trying to control my temperament - while driving: at reds, people who don't notice a green, left turners blocking everyone behind them, etc. I try to just sit quietly and let it pass. Today i had two opportunities, at the bank I did okay, at the store a woman stood btw the only two registers open and I asked (really because I was upset as I knew the reason, but also I needed to know to stand on line) for which she was waiting -- and she said something like whichever is first. I mumbled "that's not how we do it here." Don't know if she heard me or because the guy on deck was at bat, but she straightened her cart... probably should have thought that one through and at least given her a minute rather than reacting so quick.

Don't say -- oh that's not so bad --- of all groups you guys should know this kind of stuff builds up quick and bad.

I realized that this problem stems from an overdose of the middah of "chessed" which is the power of creation -- its an unlimited flowing. The counter power is gevurah - which is the power to limit and thus the two allow for the world to come into being and exist constantly. This aveira is called "chessed." It constantly wants to do, to go, etc. That's part of why I worry when I need to sleep and urge to go somewhere else - because it can be the call of the chump. That is harder to deal with, and so I can only take note and think about it if/when it comes up. More important - I realized that I do many things as a flow. The thing I am working on now is repetition. I often repeat myself during davening, and if something should be said 3 times I end up saying it 4 or 5. Someone noticed it and told me to take control over it... he's probably right -- back in the day I used to repeat the end of one specific brocha over and over, and that used to happen right before a deep chump attack. Now, I am working always stopping after one or the right number -- shma is a good practice place (with all the 3 times pesukim). As he said, if its because you feel like you do not have kavanah, the work on your kavanah, don't just repeat things. Also, don't just do something the second you think of it, even if you really think it "cannot wait" -- especially during seder :D.

--- Working on myself:

I think the honeymoon phase is near the end. BSD I want to start working on doing real teshuva stuff... more details to follow, as it is this post is too long.
Also I plan to include more things I have tried in the past -- in the roughly 800 or 900 days that I had this affliction, I must have tried a hundred things to quit.
again I cannot read through this post so let me know if it doesn't make sense.

Some bad news that is good.

After I wrote my post, I went to mincha. The way there I was thinking about a post for tomorrow. It was going to be really good. I had a great idea, it was going to be a letter to my future self. I was working it out in my head. I had all of these ideas about what the yetzer does including obsessing, and repeating. I kept thinking it over and over. During mincha I was mainly thinking about it. I had all these great ideas. I then thought I would make a short book to have it published, so that many people can learn from it. I thought this would be great and would become a famous, anonymous book. Then I thought more during seder about things I could say, and how much this could be such a great book. Then I thought how I would speak about how sick the secular public's mind is... and two short clips came into my head, and repeated over and over (kebolo kach polto). I wondered - why? I am doing so well. Will I now have to keep myself from falling hard? I was so much better before that, but just then it felt like a real possibility. I thought that it may be the yetzer showing it can still get me. BUT THEN I got the message.

This log occupies my thoughts through much of the day. Too much. That is not the way of the yetzer hatov. Also some things I have been doing just so I can talk about them here, that is a risky move if not just wrong.

As such, Bli neder just short status posts from here on, and only every so often. When I accepted that, the images went away. Please continue to reply, but be sure not to inflate my gayva by saying how great this move is -- he already started doing that on his own.

did you know why from an eagle we demand high altitude flying, and from a chicken we dont demand more then 6-10 feet?
because an eagle CAN do it, it has the ability
so when someone sees himself on a higher level then somebody else, he should know that therefore from him hashem surley demands more.
and that does not make him a baal gaaveh, it makes him humble, "look what special talents i have, according to my ability i should realy achieve much more"

@Shmeichel I am not sure I get what you mean. If what I think you are saying is correct. I am just saying that this log was starting to become a bit of an obsession and that is not good. I was also feeling quite haughty in the things I would post.

In any case... I was sick the past few days and out of commission (physically, not talking about ...). BH I think I am getting better. The breakthroughs on this log were great, but I think I am going to start a new one that is more straightforward. 

Refuah Sheleima and Good Shabbos!

refueh shleimeh

Thanks guys.

For now, I am going to continue posting in this thread.

I recently saw a bit of tv and am becoming more convinced that my wayward behavior was the result of the outside influences. Of course that includes tv and music, but even youtube -- esp the tv stuff that is on. The idea is that their ideas of normal are not the torah way, and this message seeps into my head. In addition, I did not realize how much pritzus is shown, even when they are not "intending" for an outfit to be revealing. Their views on relationships are also very out of whack. This makes a person like myself want to engage in practices that are not right.

However, even during the years when I was not exposed I would sometimes start to slip but not go further and fall. It might have been due to residual effects of what I had seen before or just a natural instinct that was created to perpetuate the world. In either case, I still don't think it was correct to slip. [During the past two and a half years slips almost always became falls; The two are very much connected.] I must always remember that I need to be vigilant even if I don't see the message blasted in my face.

Of course when everything was going well and I didn't have any urges, then it starts to feel like this thing is just your past and my future will be free of it. Now I start to wonder. Some people and events reminded me of something that used to trigger me all the time. BH I have not yet had urges to slip that I couldn't just brush off, but I know them and I know they will come back and they will be stronger each time. so I want to make this very very very clear to my yetzer harah: YES I am 26. Yes, I am not married with children. No, there is no requirement that I already be married with children at this point. No matter how much people say otherwise, it is fine, I am still normal even if I am not married. Every person finds their match at their own time and there is no need to feel pressure about not being married and there is no need to marry the first person I go out with! Not to mention all the people who did get married and are now divorced. Is that what you would rather?!

I was sitting before mincha and a thought process occupied my head.

What I was reading reminded me that I still need to do a teshuva to fill the gap created by my aveiros. So I started to calculate that I did this for two and half years, usually acted out 2 or 3 times, and had breaks of about 7-10 days in between (that had to do with its main excuse that "if I had a wife...," so I needed to hold out for periods of time ...). That means about one time a day for half of the days. two and half years is about 910 and half that is 455. So I probably did this about 455 times.

I then started to think about how I need to do something 455, a few ideas came up, but then I settled on blatt gemara. I also remembered that in yeshiva you could count up to 3 reviews for a total of 4 counts per unique blatt. (I can start with that and see if I can do better later on.) I also remember that in HS, I was not acting out anymore, a certain visiting big rebbe told me I needed to learn 18 blatt as teshuvah. I think that number sounds pretty accurate for that prior period. I also remembered that I never specifically had in mind and did them -- which could be why I fell ten years later.

I said I would try not to post every day and not to post things to increase my gayva, but I already started making excuses to lower the number, so I wanted to publicly accept this step in teshuva. [For those quicker than me, I later realized a flaw in my calculations. If I only did about three acts a week (one series of three every 7-10 days), there were only 130 weeks and so even the high end - I only did it 390 times minus all the periods where I went for longer than a week. But I accepted the higher number and should run with that because it includes the lower.]

I wondered how long I have to do this. There was no clear answer - it was more like a "sooner rather than later," but then the term "later" was understood as when I return to the secular world at the end of the summer.

I'll keep you posted.

o.k.
a chavrusah!
which gemoro?
and which daaf?

Ha. I picked out one that would cover all the blatt I would need (dividing the total by 4).

I had a very frustrating first date on Sunday. That used to mean that when I got home, I would spend some time in front of the computer and doing you know what. BH I did not, but I did wake up in the middle of the night because of you know what. The sleep-waker also happened once or twice last week. I had a few times where I was about to or started to slip but stopped myself right away. To be honest, I did not push the thoughts away as forcefully; on the other hand, I think they were on waking up at random times at night, and then falling back to sleep right away.

It is either natural and so almost nothing I could do about it. Or I was being triggered by certain things (especially glances at TV) and wasn't acting out so it would just come out... Either way, I won't let myself get bogged down by this. I just thought the frequency made it worth noting in my log.

otherwise things are moving along. I have to keep remembering that this is not some distant concept. This is a very real aveira that I was very really doing.

Tonight my parents were watching a very famous movie, and I avoided the vast majority of it. At a certain point I was reeled in. The sickos in hollywood needed to put in a bad scene for no reason at all, even though I walked away, it affected me. I have lately allowed myself to see the pritzus on TV and I think that has been causing my recent slips. Tonight I was having trouble sleeping and going through a big slip (for clarity - in these slips I was not touching the what would be a fall, but I was acting on other areas) I realized what this stuff leads to so I decided in my mind I would open the comp to go to GYE and remind myself what I am doing. In short, that is not where I went, and I started watching things I shouldn't, stopped myself before I did the next stupid thing and went into this system.

I just checked, and according to the rules of the 90 day chart, this was a fall, and I restarted the count. I really hesitate to call it a fall, because I did not act out, and I worry that restarting the count entirely would give myself free reign to act out as I begin a new count (which was my problem in previous counts). but I guess viewing is also a problem, and there were very few times I viewed without acting... so I will have a double count (to help me get started).

it has been 30 days since I fully acted out, after 30 days I viewed inappropriate material, at first by accident then on purpose, I am not allowed to act out now, because that would reset both counts. okay, so that was my walk of shame, I hope I don't have to do it again. I really don't want to count this as a fall, because in many ways I felt like I was past this and moving towards fulfilling the 90 days. But i need to remember that I didn't undo the 30 days, this was not as bad a fall by any measure, I can still get to 90 days even if they start today and not 30 days ago, and the fact that I was slipping and eventually went online and started to look at stuff shows that the progress was taking a bad turn, and from an aveira perspective I didn't actually do the act or even start and, oddly, I wasn't even thinking that I would (a few more seconds may have been different). most importantly -- if I do not acknowledge the severity of this activity then he wins this battle and I risk losing the next one.

yurojew wrote:


Come on guys! stop goofing off! we've got work to do here!
like testing out all these icons