Thank you guys ... eye.nonymous i checked out ur piece but one thing always gets to me  you wrote :

          "(Part of our sickness, I think, is feeling ashamed of our negative feelings rather than accepting them as a normal part
          of being human, and moving on.  We are emotion perfectionists, which is unrealistic)."

i agree with this but, yes i feel like i cant yell at myself for not being perfect and having messed up thoughts but then again doesnt there come a time when enough is enough, when its just like ok i mess up way to much and i know im not perfect but im not getting anywhere and I'm sinning while that's happening. Sometimes i feel that lack of perfection is just a justification excuse to not worry at the fact that i keep messing up.

Good question.

The way I see it is like this:  First, I need to correctly assess myself--to take an accurate accounting of my defects AND of my qualities.  It's helpful to do this with another person because we are too subjective to see ourselves clearly--even when we try hard to be objective.  This accounting should best be done with another friend from recovery, and it definitely should not be done with one's wife (or parents).  It also should not be done with one's chavrusa or good friend or even rabbi who is entirely clueless as to the nature of addicts and addictive personalities (a therapist who is not qualified to deal with addictions would also be a poor choice).

[That is actually step 4 and 5 (and doesn't work too well if not preceeded by steps 1-3).]

Once we have a clear picture of ourselves, it is healthy to accept where we are AND TAKE THE NECESSARY STEPS to move forward, to improve, to heal.  We do not have an excuse to give up; rather, we have the tools to improve.

[That is actually steps 6-9]

If we expend all (or a lot) of our energy on blaming ourselves for our shortcomings and eating ourselves up over it, we will hinder our ability to truly improve ourselves.  Furthermore, such self-pity usually pushes us backwards, compelling us to increase our unhealthy and harmful (and, if you insist--"sinful") behaviors.

So, as long as we face the facts and are committed to deal with them in a mature and realistic way, what do we gain from self-pity?  We only lose by it.

Does this clarify anything?

--Elyah

Ya thanx i guess thats really what it comes down to making constant cheshbon ha'nefeshs' of myself , and like u said better with another, this does make sense ,,, i really must sit down n map out myself so i can see my strengths and weaknesses and understand when im fooling myself and when im being real so i know how to react to a short-comming and when to blame myself for putting myself in a stupid situation ...honestly thanx this does help

like last night slipped and i didnt want to kill myself but its hard not to cuz im kinda a perfectionist but now if i can really asses myself and just blame the fact that i was not in a safe place and that if i didnt go there i would have been ok ....

So true.
Our sobriety must be a top priority.
In the first few weeks or months, it needs to be THE top priority.
This will mean giving up going to some places if it would compromise our mission.

ya sry to be a downer and thank for all the help but it got rocked these past few days and i couldn't stand up to tests or myself i hate doing this same things i have done before , but i felt the over month clean i was great it just here i am again the night after R"Ch

MT wrote on 18 Apr 2012 13:54:


Sounds good.

About why we need to share our defects with another person: Like you said, we fool ourselves. But lots of times we can't really tell when we're doing it or not. So, we can make a very thorough list of our defects, but miss the most important things (and also be really hard on ourselves for things that aren't really true). Another person, an objective listener, is much more likely to catch these things.

--Elyah