thanks my good man

Ouch!!.....I don't even know what to say.....

But I will daven for you.

Hang in there, and may it all work out for the best.

Gevura!

We're rooting for you! Go mottel Go! Go Mottel Go!  I bless you that one day you and your wife will look back, remember this and have a good laugh at how you acted. I wish you the best. You're on the right track.  Don't be discouraged.  You didn't create this mess overnight, and you wont fix it overnight.... but you will fix it, or at least progressively make it better .

thanx. off to the big talk now.

Mottel, i feel for you. ouch ouch
i'll put in a good word for ya with the Boss.

and the book UAJ quoted from - 10 Minutes a Day to a Better Marriage by Dr. Meir Wikler - is a great book to read and practice.

Great read UAJ.  OM.  Let us know how you are doing.  We are with you.

Thank G-d, Wife retracted the message, and admitted her hastiness. I apologized to the best of my limited ability, and also had a chance to state my point of view in a calm manner. We almost got into another fight doing that, but I had a presence of mind Siyato d'Shmayo to say to her: This is counter-productive, let's regroup and start over in a few minutes, and the second attempt was much better.
Thanks for your support, chevra.

Just call us aharon and chur, holding your hands .

gibbor120 wrote on 21 Nov 2011 18:32:
....behind my back

oh, and over your mouth . Sorry, couldn't resist. :o

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 21 Nov 2011 15:59:


obormottel wrote on 21 Nov 2011 17:31:


This is a note to myself as well as to you OM (and all spouses out there), but if you read the book 10 minutes a day to a better marriage, one of his main points is to alternate speaking.  Meaning when one spouse talks, the other listens and cannot respond for 24 hours (they should listen and ask clarifying questions to understand their spouse's position).  I think we all have the feeling that if we don't respond and state our "point of view" even in a "calm manner" immediately we will somehow lose out an opportunity to do so.  But as you discovered, in reality it is often "counter-productive" and can very often lead to yet "another fight." 
The next time you feel that urge to get across your point of view, try this instead.  "Honey, I really want to understand your point of view.  I may have a different view, but right now my view is irrelevant.  I just want to understand the way you feel and how important this is to you.  After hearing and understanding your point of view I may agree to everything you've said.  But if not, I'd like you to give me the same courtesy of listening to me tommorow night and thinking about what I have to say."  Remember if the issue you are fighting about is a one time thing, than it's over and done with.  If it's not and it's recurring, you will I'yh have a nice long life together, so you have plenty of time to discuss this issue there is no rush to get your point of view across today.
Glad to see that you are home and comfy and best of all you stayed sober throughout all of the stress.  Now that's beautiful.  Continued hatzlacha.
Gibbor, next time use duct tape it will do the job better.

ur-a-jew wrote on 21 Nov 2011 19:06:

Yes, but much more painful on that beard - ouch!

Wow that's such good advice. All of our fights are just like that! I might inadvertently say something insensitive or do something not the way she wants it, and she starts criticizing. I immediately interrupt and try to justify myself, which makes her even madder... I don't know if 24 hours will work, but even just waiting till she's finished venting, then calmly saying, "I understand your complaint, and it's valid , but this is why i did what i did....", then explaining my side of the story. We usually wind up there eventually, but first there's a lot of yelling and really bad feelings.

And we also both fall into the trap of what UAJ quoted, saying "i'm sorry, but....". The apology needs to be completely seperate from any excuses or justifications. There's always some blame on both of us, so we both need to figure out what we each did wrong, and apologize wholeheartedly.

And Gibbor's quote from Rabbi Twerski. If we fight in front of the kids, we always make sure to make up and apologize in front of them as well. And we do hug and kiss in front of them (but not in public).

Mottel, I'm so glad things are looking up for you. Keep working through it, it takes time. But I have found sometimes that a good fight, resolved properly, can bring us to a new level of understanding and in the end we are closer than before...

Gevura!

Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 21 Nov 2011 19:37:


The 24 hours that Dr. Wikler chose was deliberate.  While what you describe is certainly better than trying to get your point of view across while your wife is talking, it comes pretty close to the "Im sorry, but . . ."  By waiting 24 hours you have time to focus on the real issues.  What may seem like a huge deal now, tomorrow when you are not in the heat of the moment, ay appear trivial.  Try it once or twice, you may like it.

I had something recently, where my wife was the one who followed up with me.  That is she knew I had things to say and she wanted to hear them.  No doubt had I tried to say I hear you But she would not have been interested in listening to what I had to say.

I know but i can't bear 24 hours of her thinking she won.... > ??? :o :-\ :-[  ...... ;D