obormottel wrote on 28 Nov 2011 23:11:


Maybe the couple grows apart indeed, but if the growing I am doing is keeping me sober, then we are growing apart so much more slowly that we would if I were not doing that growing!

[As far as I am concerned, my sobriety is so more important than our relationship. If I were c"v alone, my need for sobriety would be not a drop less than it ever was. And my wife knows that keenly.

Yet she has already told me that "the day you got sober is far more important a day to me than the day we got married." She means it, and it was not an insult, but a gratitude. She is pretty happy every year on the Shabbos we make a kiddush to (secretly) celebrate my sobriety anniversary. She doesn't have much desire to see our wedding video - she considers that entire part of her life partly fake, cuz I tricked her so badly for years. So the glamor and joy of it is tainted. She is a very real, honest person (more common for women, it seems!). Remembering those years gives her a sour stomach.

Though things have recently started to come full circle with her, and we actually sat through our wedding video for the first time in twenty years this past summer. Nu. It was nice.]

But getting back to the thingy:


Huh? Who told you she is wrong? I don't get it. I thought you were the one who needed the recovery. Is she an addict because you are? In S-Anon, they work the 12 steps, often with "their trying to save the addict husband" as their addiction. If she is leaving you to your own recovery, then that sounds pretty healthy, to me. It is your business, no? The women who really need to go to recovery the most, are the ones who have been acting like their husband's recovery is really theirs! And trust me, their husbands are pretty upset when these women of theirs begin to learn how to stop being dependent on their husband's sobriety. To stand on their own feet as free ovdei Hashem. The beginning is not actually very pleasant for most of us dependent men...

You sound like a pretty lucky man to me, though a bit too dependent on your wife's business.

I relate 100%.

OM, I'm also not sure what you want from your wife.  Do you just want her to understand/accept you?  What does she need recovery for?  In what way do you want/expect her to support you?

i hear you. lemme think about it...ok, I thought about it.
I want her to stop mocking me and be a little more understanding of what I'm going thru...on the other hand, you're right, she doesn't need any recovery for herself....i guess it comes down to understanding and corresponding emotional growth...perhaps she's waiting for me to catch up to her maturity level before she can resume growing...

obormottel wrote on 29 Nov 2011 16:40:

I hear you loud and clear.  I also had have a need for my wife to be understanding.  Over time, she has become more understanding.  Focus on your own recovery and being honest with your wife.  I think she'll turn around, but it may happen more slowly than you'd like.  KOT!

I'm not much of a breslover, but "The garden of peace" is highly recomended here.

Remember: A wife is a mirror, shortly after marriage she loses her flaws and mirrors yours. What you excell in, she will automaticly do better.... and she never knows why

I had the "delight" of witnessing it happen during the first 2 months of my marriage. My wife matured instantly, and started to slack on davening.    because I am very mature, and slack on MY davening.        When I act-out my wife forgets to zip her rope all the way up, leaving a pleasantly revealing V-neck.  When I controll my lusts, (albeit self-will not 12 steps) she dresses up like a "rebetzinb from meah shearim" and can't figure out what got into her.

If anyone has a wife who lets her dress ride-up, simply stop staring up other ladies skirts, and she will automaticly find herself tzanuah.    See the book it's great stuff. And whatever you do don't find your wife's fault, see it as your own!

Gut shabbos to all!
I'm still clean. Just got back from the meeting, and I don't care what you say, but frum addicts are CRAZY!
To let a "goyishe" system return your emuna to you....you must be crazy.
But this is what I'm getting back now: my emuna. Suddenly, all chassidus and musar and chakira all come to be seen in their true light with a little help of goyim who are just as crazy as I am.
What can I say, I'm disheartened...I really don't like that place I am coming from (but haven't gone too far yet)...and I can go back there at a drop of a hat (or pants, if that's what grabs you). Crazy? I think so.
I am throwing out 20 years worth of convictions so that I can replace them with faith in G-d...while I developed those very convictions to cultivate my faith in G-d. Is this making any sense?

It makes perfect sense to me.....maybe you should really start worrying, now?! 

Exactly my experience, and it has been getting better and better, each year a deeper appreciation for Torah and Chassidus (my chosen path, though not a chosid [yet]). And the emess of recovery has opened up sifrei Emess to me, b"H. My shrinking duplicity is allowing growth of all the Emess in my life. And it is slowly recreating all the relationships in my life. Our house has transformed, the way I feerzoch with the wife and kids is transformed...where is this leading? Life is spontaneous now, interesting, and actually beautiful.

Before, it was the same predictable crap (excuse me), with the same, predictable damn (excuse me) cycle and the same predictable porn and 'adventures'. My existence was shifting from one crisis to another - here and inner crisis, there and chitzoni one. The only really exciting part of living was all the new and interesting ways I'd get in trouble for what I was doing ! Aside from the anxiety, life out of recovery is just boring. In fact, having fun and being anxious were hard for me to tease apart for the first few years sober.

This is what some addicts mean when they say that "the worst day I have sober is better then the best day I could have being drunk". It's not the drinking that is the problem, but the stupid thinking that feels so natural. It always kept me apart from real faith in G-d and connection with others.

It took a year or two for me to start learning that I really can approach Hashem as neither a grovelling 'rosho posheya', nor as a high-flying 'm'vutal liRtzono' - but as 'just me'. For reasons only known to Him, we - as we are right this second - are good enough to have a relationship with Him! We all are, though most of us really don't believe that, and deep down inside we tend to only believe that we are really good for having a relationship with nudes and porn, and stuff like that. No wonder we kept trying that over and over....but you and I are past that today. Boruch Hashem!!

I pray you (we) keep taking it just one day at a time.

Dov. Major stuff.

By the Grace of G-d I am sober yet another day.
The wife's out of town for a week, so tomorrow is the "post-it note, dinner special, flower display" day.
The first night alone was very tough. I was up every hour on the hour tending to crying babies, who wanted mommy and wouldn't be consoled. Not only I lost my temper once or twice (which manifested itself in a louder-than-called-for "ssshhhhh" at the baby, and some yelling at an older kid for trying to help (I know, I'm working on it)), by about six am I was half-ready to soothe myself the only way I know how. Thank G-d, I got through it.
So tonight one of the babies firmly placed herself in my bed, perhaps in an attempt to save me from "sinning". So that was nice...
I realized something that I want to share with you:
The last time the Wife was away, I was freaking out. I was in sheer panic, and so before going to bed I put in a long prayer during Kriyas SHma AH"M, asking to get throught the night without acting out, without having a temper tantrum, and without too much trouble from the babies. And it was (almost) a walk in the park.
So this Monday I was feeling very cocky: I took the Wife to the airport, and went to SA meeting, and reported there that I am SOOOO past the resentment towards my wife, I wish her to have a great fun time wherever she is, and I will manage the house, just as well as I did the first time few weeks ago.
Well, this cockiness did me in: I failed to ask Hashem for help before going to sleep, and I had a miserable night, and the entire time I was SOOO angry at my wife for putting me through this. And surely, when she called in the morning, I was full of resentment, and was very rude and curt with her.
So I fessed up about it in the meeting the following day, and I was sure to invite G-d to spend the night with us, and even though the babies did wake up, and did ask for mommy, it was a totally different and a relaxed experience.
So I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to G-d Al-mighty for being such an obvious part of our lives. Abba, Ata matok.

Wow. That's real living. Thanks for reporting the truth from the field.

Mottel, gam ata matok.

obormottel wrote on 07 Dec 2011 17:48:

Thanks mottel!  When we coast, we're toast!  G-d reminds us that we need him.  Thanks for reminding me, so hopefully I won't get a rude awakening, (no pun intended).

Mottel, ur amazing! KUTGW!

Hope the "homecoming" works out great for both of you.

Gevura!


P.S. UAJ: Is there some sort of program you use for making those?

notes.mastervb.net/