dov wrote on 25 Nov 2011 04:19:


Thanks for the alibi, but i don't get it  ???

Wasn't the sweet fellow mugged on a Friday night? I just liked your picture thingy and felt like kidding around....am I too serious to do that?

Uh, oh....

I thought it was Wed. night. I hope he doesn't carry his wallet and phone on shabbos.

And you can kid around with me anytime. Sometimes the humor here is the only thing that keeps me sane.... and anyways i started it.

Now I better get to sleep...

Gevura!

No, I thought his wife was in labor and they were 'walking it off' so he had his cellphone in case he fainted and his wife needed to get to the delivery room without him.

And I thought the wallet was just for kibud av v'eim, cuz y'know  how mom always says to "carry something to give the muggers something so they won't be too angry!"

Maybe I got confused with another thread.

Is this the UFA (Ultimate Frisbeeholics Anonymous) website, or is it something else?

I am so embarrassed...

I am quite a bit on edge right now.
We had an electrical fire this morning, I spotted it by noticing baby shoes on fire in the corner of the room. Then my fire extinguisher malfunctioned but the Wife stomped the fire out.
This so far tops off a list of events starting with emergency room trip last Motzei Shabbos with a kid, then progressing  to a divorce talk from Wife and the closest I ever gotten to being thrown out of the house, moving on to an armed robbery, which was by far the highest point.
This is in addition to my bike being stolen from our backyard two weeks ago, landlord problems, and some other developments along those lines.
So thank G-d for the fire not happening in the middle of the night, and for a quick end to it. Literally dozens of dollars in damages will be added to other low-cost, high-stress incidents totaling maybe $700 (without the emergency room bill, which will be hundreds of dollars of co-pay).
Also, I feel angry towards the Wife, for consistently refusing to join S-Anon or at least go on the Spouses of Addicts here. I think it would help a lot with her attitude, but then of course it's my self-centeredness talking 'cause I think her attitude towards what I'm trying to do is wanting.
I am also agitated at the fact, that I have no privacy at home whatsoever, all computers are in public places (and for a good reason), so I can't be on GYE on weekends and after work, and at work I only have the internet until a certain time, so the only way for me to be on the forum is to do it during the day, which I've been doing for a long time now, and which hinders my productivity greatly. When I try to do it at home, I have to constantly switch screens when anyone who can read walks by and it's driving me mad. I went away from the computer for a second, and my teenager is reading a thread I left open....(on Date Ideas, but whateva). He saw flyers for GYE in shul (which I put out) and he is putting two and two together, and even attempted to bring it up to me (generally, we have a very open relationship and talk about anything). The kids were also curious where I was on Motzei Shabbos (the SA meeting, of course!).
I need to be reading the Big Book and the White Book, but I don't have a spot at home to do it. I spent like 15 minutes reading in my car on two diff. occasions, but that is not conducive.
Right now as I'm typing this the Wife is in the same room and she is incessantly stuffing my ears with chatter, even though I asked for some uninterrupted time on the internet.
I find myself getting angry, so what the h3ll is the need for this forum?!
I am also not happy that my interaction with Dov turned to Personalities over Principles.
I do feel greatly discouraged, however, from posting here. To me, a stifled debate is akin to zera l'vatolo, in other words, why bother to spell out my ideas, if they are going to be dismissed  and made fun of at best, or ridiculed and turned on their head. My initial attraction to GYE was the broadness of its approach to conquer this demon of our doir , but despite the GYE in the Nutshell promise, it just seems to be a recruitment center for SA.
And please, don't misconstrue what I'm saying for bashing the SA: I attend meetings regularly, have a sponsor, and started working on the first step. Frankly, I don't see any other way out of my addiction, and I am forever grateful to Guard for pointing out the way.
It just seems that a more open-minded approach to recovery is not welcome by powers that be and I find that discouraging.
Thanks for letting me vent. I found lust creeping up on me in the last couple of days, and it adds to the tension I otherwise feel from everything else.
I also would like to apologize in advance to all who got offended by this, including the Wife, who has permission to read my post, and no doubt will. 

Just popping in to smile and say hello.  It's a low-cost stress reliever .

hello and thanks! :D

obormottel wrote on 28 Nov 2011 06:07:



obormottel wrote on 28 Nov 2011 06:07:


Mottel just saying Hi, and I am glad to hear that you are safe, sound and sober.

sounds like a lotta stuff going on Mottel.  i feel for you.
wishing you peace of mind

Thanks.
Not sure where UAJ was going with my quotes, but support is surely welcome.
I am safe and sober (so far with G-d's Grace), not sure about sound.
I hope that no one takes personally my GYE rant.
I just got a letter from my landlord notifying me of 35% rent increase next month, so I'll be out of business in no time at all.
Ribboinoi Shel Oilom, please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Thy Will, not mine, be done.
Talking of serenity prayer, I was perusing Shaarei Halocho U'Minhag yesterday, and came upon a letter explaining how it is OK to pray together with non-Jews, even if you suspect their kavono may not be l'shem Shomayim, but l'shem elilim. The only halochic problem would be to answer Omein to a goy's prayer. For mor details, look up vol. 5 (Hoisofois u'miluyim), Prayer in public schools. So having that answered, I still have a remaining question: Can I say Asher Yotzar in church school building where the SA meetings take place?

obormottel wrote on 28 Nov 2011 20:43:


You've been having a rough couple of weeks (although I must say I admire very much your strength and your ability to stay sober through it all), so I'll give you a hand:  Why is it that the open-minded approach to recovery doesn't apply to your wife.  In other words, you've informed her of S-anon and wives of addicts, if she wants to make use of it great, if she doesn't that's also great.

Just remember: ETA-19

obormottel wrote on 28 Nov 2011 20:43:

These are by far the most important recovery issues I have ever seen.

Thanks for bringing them up.

May we find the resolution to these problems soon, Amen (I'm a Jew, so it's OK, don't worry!)

OK, so I was kidding in that last post, hope you enjoyed it!

UAJ likes quoting you, Motelleh, because you are a cool dude. That's why. And also because we empathize with a man who is in the pot as we are!

As far as the wife goes, I pushed mine for about a year, then my sponsor woke up and told me to leave her the heck alone and use the "live and let live", "trut G-d", and "admit you don't know what she needs" concepts to help me surrender her enough to give her space.

I never know what another guy needs, so I do not tell anyone they need to go to SA, or call me, or do anything. All I do is share my experience and let people know that x, y, or z is indispensable for me, so I suggest trying it. And sometimes I explain why I think it is so important. OK, so I come off as a bossy, pompous person. I am. But I really do try to temper my love and desperation with at least a bit of open-mindedness.

I'd never accuse you of close-mindedness. But it is funny that the only guys who accuse me of it are the ones who do not know me personally. Reading these posts can really screw up our impression of each other.

Sorry if I have ever acted in a mean or dumb way to you. He's not done with me yet.

But you might consider letting go of your wife, regardless of whether you surrender your own struggles to Hashem already. Surrendering another ba'al bechirah is very nice for many relationships. It really helped ours. My wife is not in any form or formal recovery, has never been in S-Anon, and probably never will be. She has never participated in a recovery Shabbos with me over the years, though so many frum wives of addicted guys, do. It used to hurt me. I used to think she was holding back my recovery by her lack of participation. But until she hurts enough, I do not believe she will avail herself of the tools in S-Anon or the like.

I only use them cuz I hurt enough.  She apparently does not hurt enough.

I really like you a lot and wish you continued hatzlocha.

- Dov

PS. I am not comfortable making an Asher Yotzar in the church buildings some of the SA meetings I go to are in, too. I do not answer Amen to their prayers, and I actually am careful never to answer amen to any Jew's prayer that I did not fully hear - I have heard too many heartfelt - but stupid - prayers so far!

dov wrote on 28 Nov 2011 22:04:

Dov.... use the smileys. .

Yeah, the smileys ....
I just read somewhere here that if you're growing and your wife isn't, then the couple grows apart.
Leaving the theory behind for a second, I wish that my wife took any approach to recovery. She just seems to think I'll do fine on my own.
And UAJ, why do you love me in Portuguese?