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Lessons Learned
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TOPIC: Lessons Learned 13523 Views

Re: Lessons Learned 23 Sep 2018 06:08 #335743

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Very well said i like the comparison to דרכא אחרינא although i never thought of it in that context i am still trying to hange my smart phone to tablet idea/leave in car, and get a basic phone, yet i have a problem that i am very scared of giving up my heavily restriced/basically apps only iphone for a unrestricted flip phone which although looks frummer can have a lot of problems as i've experienced myself many times. I am currently trying to  get through to TAG to confirm that phone i have can be kashered, and then hopefully reach that step to leave iphone in car/business and only walk around with "kosher" flip phone

Re: Lessons Learned 23 Sep 2018 19:23 #335761

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There are flip phones that have no internet access. They are the best option.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 23 Sep 2018 19:52 #335763

Hashem Help Me wrote on 21 Sep 2018 02:56:
So today a good chaver from here, a bochur who BH is doing well, took the plunge and gave up his phone with internet access. Now he only has a kosher phone. As a reaction, I would like to share some thoughts on the matter and would appreciate responses.

Recently I spoke with TAG of Flatbush. They have a standard called Machane Kadosh, which is almost 100% foolproof. It involves cutting out many sites and removing browsers, etc. However they still beg everyone to switch to kosher phones. Why? They claim that every day new applications, updates, upgrades, etc., enter the market creating new loopholes. Investing thousands of dollars, Machane Kadosh has hired cutting edge tech savvy technicians who watch like hawks for all new developments and then rectify whatever can be fixed. However they cannot guarantee perfection. Therefore they urge everyone to use as a phone, a non internet device. Why have at your fingertips a 24/6 nisayon? For better or for worse, we keep our phones with us all the time. How long does it take on a day where one feels down, lonely, bored, curious, or slightly triggered to take a smartphone into the bathroom, or some other private place to get that "quick fix"? For those who need internet access out of their office, TAG suggests having a tablet (or smartphone set up as per Machane Kadosh standards - which is still the gold standard) in addition to their kosher phone, and to train themselves to use the internet device only when necessary - not for their basic (and nowadays constant) communication. An obvious side benefit of this is that one's phone is l'chatchila usable by his/her children.

Most friends who have switched to kosher phones claim that within a month or two of the switch they came to the realization that they really never needed the constant access. They found that the lines between necessity, convenience, and even relaxation/entertainment had become blurred. Even what they had been convinced they needed, they realized was exaggerated. They also claim that their quality of life was enhanced. They feel they had been addicted to technology (even the kosher stuff) and now saw there is a beautiful life without the constant "mental stimulation" the smartphone offered. 

Which brings us to the question. Chazal tell us that if one chooses to walk where there is a lack of tznius when there is another route (darka achrina) that is clean, he Is called a rasha even if he keeps his eyes closed. So why is our scenario different? If one is able (and yes, I understand there are some who are unable) to avoid the smartphone and can use another route - the kosher phone, then even if he is careful and keeps his eyes off the "bad stuff" (which includes a lot more than just pornography - many "pareve" sites contain images that are definitely assur to look at), how would Chazal view him? Chalila, I am not trying to pass judgement or be mekatreg on any yid, I am just asking.

There are some people who unfortunately are so addicted that if given only a kosher phone, they will out of desperation purchase an internet phone at Walmart, or find an internet café, or some other outlet to quench their insatiable thirst. However for the vast majority of people, removing the constant nisayon has proven to be very helpful. Yes, some of us with kosher phones still slip and fall from time to time, but don't we all agree that falling once every few weeks or months is incomparable to falling every few days or worse?

Please respond.

For those that dont need the internet should definitely get rid of their smartphone. But at end of the day there are  people that need a smartphone (maybe a minority) mainly for the apps, obviously they should get a filter/webchaver ect but in some cases it's needed, I'd honestly rather give up my smartphone mainly because of the technology addiction and a life free of using phones/laptops is a  different life completely but I need the apps on a daily basis. (I wish to stay anonymous so I can't specify why) and occasionally I need to access the internet, recently I was stranded somewhere in the middle of nowhere and without having access to the internet I probably would of still been stuck there...  But of course it's בדיעבד

Happy sukkos to all
Feel free to pm me, currently a lucky choson which merited to have discovered gye 1.5 years ago which BH totally changed my life from one extreme to the other!

הנותן עיניו במה שאינו שלו, מה שמבקש לא נותנים לו, ומה שבידו נוטלים ממנה

(סוטה ט, עמוד א)


ולכן אל יפול לב אדם
וכו' גם אם יהיה כן כל ימיו במלחמה זו כי אולי לכך נברא וזאת עבודתו לאכפיא לס"א תמיד 
(תניא פ"כז)

Re: Lessons Learned 23 Sep 2018 20:48 #335764

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If you have to have a smartphone, then definitely have TAG set it up as per Machaneh Kadosh standards. Its probably your best hishtadlus to stay clean.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 28 Sep 2018 13:57 #335835

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Since people need internet yes. The question is how much. I think if we really evaluated our life, we could give up on most of our phones interenet and rely on our work computers. 

Not that I've taken the plundge yet. but I hope i will...

I can tell you that I see my brother who is home from yeshivah now and he is on the computer a lot of the time. I have no idea what he doing, but seriously, what does he need to be on the computer for?  

Re: Lessons Learned 29 Oct 2018 00:26 #336773

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 21 Sep 2018 02:56:
So today a good chaver from here, a bochur who BH is doing well, took the plunge and gave up his phone with internet access. Now he only has a kosher phone. As a reaction, I would like to share some thoughts on the matter and would appreciate responses.

Recently I spoke with TAG of Flatbush. They have a standard called Machane Kadosh, which is almost 100% foolproof. It involves cutting out many sites and removing browsers, etc. However they still beg everyone to switch to kosher phones. Why? They claim that every day new applications, updates, upgrades, etc., enter the market creating new loopholes. Investing thousands of dollars, Machane Kadosh has hired cutting edge tech savvy technicians who watch like hawks for all new developments and then rectify whatever can be fixed. However they cannot guarantee perfection. Therefore they urge everyone to use as a phone, a non internet device. Why have at your fingertips a 24/6 nisayon? For better or for worse, we keep our phones with us all the time. How long does it take on a day where one feels down, lonely, bored, curious, or slightly triggered to take a smartphone into the bathroom, or some other private place to get that "quick fix"? For those who need internet access out of their office, TAG suggests having a tablet (or smartphone set up as per Machane Kadosh standards - which is still the gold standard) in addition to their kosher phone, and to train themselves to use the internet device only when necessary - not for their basic (and nowadays constant) communication. An obvious side benefit of this is that one's phone is l'chatchila usable by his/her children.

Most friends who have switched to kosher phones claim that within a month or two of the switch they came to the realization that they really never needed the constant access. They found that the lines between necessity, convenience, and even relaxation/entertainment had become blurred. Even what they had been convinced they needed, they realized was exaggerated. They also claim that their quality of life was enhanced. They feel they had been addicted to technology (even the kosher stuff) and now saw there is a beautiful life without the constant "mental stimulation" the smartphone offered. 

Which brings us to the question. Chazal tell us that if one chooses to walk where there is a lack of tznius when there is another route (darka achrina) that is clean, he Is called a rasha even if he keeps his eyes closed. So why is our scenario different? If one is able (and yes, I understand there are some who are unable) to avoid the smartphone and can use another route - the kosher phone, then even if he is careful and keeps his eyes off the "bad stuff" (which includes a lot more than just pornography - many "pareve" sites contain images that are definitely assur to look at), how would Chazal view him? Chalila, I am not trying to pass judgement or be mekatreg on any yid, I am just asking.

There are some people who unfortunately are so addicted that if given only a kosher phone, they will out of desperation purchase an internet phone at Walmart, or find an internet café, or some other outlet to quench their insatiable thirst. However for the vast majority of people, removing the constant nisayon has proven to be very helpful. Yes, some of us with kosher phones still slip and fall from time to time, but don't we all agree that falling once every few weeks or months is incomparable to falling every few days or worse?

Please respond.

I switched to a flip phone recently, didn't think I could do it but it's been a month+ and I haven't dropped dead yet...
I'm sure it was a good move for me, but I've found that the more I cut off access, the more desperate I become, taking bigger risks to get my fix. And truth is, I don't need internet access at all to act out, it just makes it easier...The periods in my life where I didn't have internet access, was when fantasy and lust got way worse, and I ended up crossing boundaries, doing shameful things I thought I never would.
So yes, removing the easy access was a good step. But that alone will not keep me sober.
Just sharing my experience so far.

(also, I was self-conscious about what other people would think about me switching to a basic phone. But I just say, "I wanted to see what life is like without a smartphone, just to disconnect for a bit" and most have said something like, "Wow, I love that idea...I wish I could do that!")

Re: Lessons Learned 29 Oct 2018 00:42 #336774

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wow ! great job switching as a first step! 
As far as other people's comments , i heard a great Peshat in last week;s pasha why the TORAH tells us about Lot;s sons in law .To teach us they were being מצחק he said hashem said he is going to destroy the city and they made a joke out of it..LOT is a crazy old man....let's go back to enjoy life. This is the first  רמ''א בשו''ע סימן א' סעיף א'' ולא יתבייש מפני בני אדם המלעיגין עליו בעבודת ה.
great luck in you're battle. Got to run now but hope to get back to  the crux of you're comments later

Re: Lessons Learned 01 Nov 2018 11:32 #336898

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As i have written in my other thread "My Story and G-d Bless GYE", there was a slight SSA component to my struggle too. Let's leave out triggering details. One of the uncomfortable situations i had was at chasunas when the music became very "rocked up" and people were "doing the moves". In my sick mind, i was 100% convinced that the underlying thoughts going through the musician, singer, and dancers minds were sexual. Either i would be triggered or i would just be uneasy thinking how "bad" all these people were. BH last night i attended a chasuna, and i had a blast. I danced, i enjoyed, i actually experienced a normal "high" from the whole experience. As i left, i did a doubletake. Did that just really happen? Not one thought of sex? Not one fixation on the crotches of people's pants? Not one drop of uneasiness or negative judging of the wedding participants? Chevra, there is hope for everyone. Stick to the program, stay focused, and get advice/chizuk from others here. It really works. I wish everyone here on GYE should experience that level of menuchas hanefesh that i was zoche too. Hatzlocha to all.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 04 Nov 2018 23:48 #336973

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Recently BH I have been able to witness the hatzlocha of quite a few individuals here. Many of them were totally convinced (as I was) that they could never break free. And now they celebrate having the menuchas hanefesh of being clean. Some are single, some are married. The ages range from teenagers to 65. The protagonists in these success stories are modern Orthodox, yeshivish, chassidish, sephardic. The secret - Connection. Some are in SA/PA live and/or telephone meetings. Some are not doing 12 steps at all. But all are in touch with at least one person. Why does connection work? Is it the accountability factor, is it the emotional support - the care and concern, is it the reality factor - a real live person actually got out of this, or is it simply the ability to call in an emergency? Who knows? Who cares? It works. If you have not tried it yet, it's time to do so.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 05 Nov 2018 01:15 #336983

Another great post

For me, having someone real to talk to was helpful mostly because it enabled me get over shame. Telling someone what I’ve done, and knowing that he doesn’t think I’m a loser or worthless because of it, was huge

Also, for me, it is quantity over quality. I mainly speak to one person, but we have a real relationship, and we meet up when we can. 

Lastly, I think the main reason having someone to talk to helps me is because I have an ally. Up until I had an ally I was fighting alone, and lone soldier is weaker than a pair. 

P.S. Having someone to talk to was probably necessary for me to get whatever recovery I have, but it definitely wasn’t sufficient.

Re: Lessons Learned 15 Nov 2018 12:30 #337270

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700 days. I am humbled and truly grateful to the Ribono Shel Olam for His allowing me to be where i am today, and for the zchus of having some involvement in others' recoveries from this issue. And as i have posted on this thread and on my original one (in the balei batim forum), i have enormous feelings of hakaras hatov to the many individuals here, and to GYE itself, for the chizuk, advice, education, and friendship i have received here. Although many of the "family members" are faceless and even nameless, in the olam ha'neshamos the bond between us is real and strong. Hatzlocha to all.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 15 Nov 2018 16:33 #337278

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Wow! Mazel Tov on 700! That is Amazing! You are a real role model to so many, B'h today I hit 84 clean days I would have never been able to get to this point if not for all the help and devotion that you have shown to me. Thanks a lot for all the chizuk, advice, education, and friendship you have shown to me!

Looking forward to celebrating many more milestones!

 Love Yankel!
Important quote from Cordnoy
"The need is a perceived one. There has not been one reported case on these pages of a death occurrin' on account of not fulfillin' that need

“I avoid looking forward or backward, and try to keep looking upward.” 

"My recovery must come first so that everything I love in life doesn’t have to come last."

My Story
                       

Yankel's Daily Inspirational Quotes

Re: Lessons Learned 15 Nov 2018 20:07 #337287

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MAZEL TOV on 700! ויהי רצון מלפני אבינו שבשמים שתזכה בקרוב ל7000

Re: Lessons Learned 16 Nov 2018 02:52 #337293

Mazel tov for reaching 700! Wow! Really inspirational! I'm sure the eibishter gave you extra strength due to you helping people out, including me.
Feel free to pm me, currently a lucky choson which merited to have discovered gye 1.5 years ago which BH totally changed my life from one extreme to the other!

הנותן עיניו במה שאינו שלו, מה שמבקש לא נותנים לו, ומה שבידו נוטלים ממנה

(סוטה ט, עמוד א)


ולכן אל יפול לב אדם
וכו' גם אם יהיה כן כל ימיו במלחמה זו כי אולי לכך נברא וזאת עבודתו לאכפיא לס"א תמיד 
(תניא פ"כז)

Re: Lessons Learned 25 Dec 2018 12:31 #338014

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A few chevra have reached out and are curious what should be their Shovavim "project". Being that these weeks have specific significance in doing teshuva for shmiras habris related issues, people want to actually do something real. Of course many kehillos already have minhagim related to this zman. Be it minyonim saying tehillim, slichos, fasting, special shiurim (which GYE also offers), etc...   Maybe it would be an idea that during this time period we dedicate an amount of time to help others in this struggle. One of the most powerful tools in getting better is to have a partner/mentor/anchor encouraging, advising, sympathizing, etc. Even if you dont feel ready to advise, just being available as a listening ear and supportive shoulder for someone else is a tremendous chessed, and is mighty helpful to the new guy on the block who is courageously pouring out his pain and frustration. Sharing that people actually get better is a reassurance for this tzubrochene neshama. In the zchus of our being mechazek others may Hashem give us a complete slicha and mechila for our past actions and give us extra shmira in our own journeys to kedusha tahara and dveikus b'Hashem.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE
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