my kids are very young...they dont understand what gay is...theyll figure it out later in life, im sure, and theyll remember that daddy was very nice to everyone in nyc (we'd be living in israel, then, next to the bet hamikdash) including the gay couple, the black couple, the guy down the hall with the tats and the mowhawk and the woman downstairs with 17 cats...theyll remember that we reviewed every day what they learned in yeshiva ketana/bais yaakov and that torah was front and center of our lives and theyll remember that when they were very young, daddy transformed from a wooden puppet to a real live boy...

and with help from above they will be tolerant and observant jews who will pass this one to their kids...(not sure what will happen with all the arabs after mashiach comes but if there are any arabs left, then, yes, be tolerant towards them, too...)

Coca-Cola Classic -A young man speaking to the older generation

In this week’s parsha, Moshe Rabbeinu continues his charge to the Bnei Yisroel exhorting them to tread the path of Hashem’s Torah and to follow His mitzvos. One pasuk in the parsha attracts the attention of the gemarah and many of our commentaries. “And now, [Klal] Yisroel, what does HaShem ask of you except that you revere him” (Devorim 10:12). And while the gemarah (Berachos 33b) raises the question of how Moshe Rabbeinu could treat acquiring Yiras Shamayim as an easily achievable goal, one may wonder why he spoke about an overarching theme like fear of Hashem rather than mentioning specific mitzvos that are actively performed.

I would like to suggest that Moshe Rabbeinu was sharing profound guidance with the Bnei Yisroel in his charge to them – advice that we ought to strongly consider as we raise our children in these challenging times.

We all have limited ‘bandwith’ in our minds – meaning that we can only concentrate well on a few things at a time. With that in mind, perhaps Moshe was instructing us to focus the bulk of our attention on the fundamental underpinnings of our emunah and mesorah like Yiras Shamayim. In fact, a similar theme emerges from gemara’s discussion in Makos (24a) which analyzes the list of 11 core Torah principles cited by Dovid Hamelech (Tehilim 15) and progressively shorter lists noted by neveim who followed him (See Rivan and Maharsha).

I think that you and your generation followed that sage advice when you passed on the Torah values of your parents and grandparents to us. You kept things simple. In fact, I could probably fit all the instructions you gave us on the back of an index card. Be a mentch. Learn and master our Torah. “Farbreng nisht der tzeit -- make the best use of every minute of every day. Make a kiddush Hashem wherever you go – don’t ever forget that you are wearing a yarmulke. Get an education, be self-sufficient, and give something back to the community. Yet these simple themes encapsulated all the major components of our tradition.

At our Pesach sedarim, you didn’t distribute ‘matzoh cards’ to make sure that we had the proper shiurim or share profound divrei Torah with us, but your eyes brimmed with tears when you spoke to us about our glorious mesorah. You didn’t speak much about your generation’s extraordinary success in rebuilding your individual and collective lives after the Holocaust, but you taught us by example, what it means to sacrifice for Yiddishkeit and how we should treasure the gift of freedom you were denied. You didn’t deal much with segulos for parnasa like ‘chai rotel’ and ‘shlissel challah’ but always stressed the importance of ehrlichkeit in our financial dealings, living below one’s means, and scrupulously giving tzedaka.

Since your guidance dealt with very basic and broad themes, there was little in the way of the confusing blend of Halacha,minhag, chumrah and common practice that leaves our children groping for an understanding of how to prioritize. And there were no mixed messages about what you taught us, because you lived these values each and every day of your lives.

Wherever I go, people ask me why we seem to be having far more problems raising our children than did the people of your generation. Obviously, a question like that can be answered in many ways. But I think that the answer may be found in the pasuk we just discussed. I think that you had an easier time raising us, because you followed the advice of Moshe Rabbeinu and Dovid Hamelech, and just kept things simple.

On April 23, 1985, with much fanfare, Coca-Cola, the largest beverage manufacturer in the world, launched a sweeter version of the soft drink named 'New Coke,' withdrawing its traditional 99-year old formula. It was a spectacular failure. Coca-Cola sales plummeted and employees had to work overtime on its complaints hotline, which received an average of 1,500 calls a day.

Ten weeks after introducing the new Coke, and after publicly vowing that the original formula was gone for good, company executives brought it back. They added a “Classic” underneath the script Coca-Cola lettering to distinguish it from the new formula. Coca-Cola Classic began to outsell new Coke almost immediately, and revived the company’s sales.

I think there is a striking parallel between the experiences of Coca-Cola and our charedi world. My yeshiva-educated generation, for all the right reasons, and with the best of intentions, introduced a ‘new and improved’ brand of chinuch – with longer hours and progressively elevated standards (read: pressure) in academics, dress codes, and social norms for our children, with increasingly more and more emphasis on gemarah b’iyun at the expense of other limudim, general studies, hobbies, and exercise.

It is humbling and difficult to come to terms with, let alone say this publicly, but I think that your generation had a far better recipe than ours, though both generations have their successes and failures. You prepared us for secular culture whereas we shelter our children from it. You played offense; we play defense. You celebrated the enrollment of each and every Jewish child to a Mesivta or Bais Yaakov; we send rejection letters. You raised children; we tried to raise gedolim.

Over the past few years, I’ve increasingly felt that the most effective way of reversing the exploding number of kids and adults abandoning Yiddishkeit is to revert to the old-fashioned “Charedi Classic” education my generation was fortunate to receive from yours; and pass on those core values to our children and grandchildren.

Guard, you didn't just type that, did you?

also, can you summarize the point? kutan only reads stuff with lots of pictures or animations.

k

oh, my goodness, guard, that was solid gold...***standing ovation***

who wrote that?

im going to get my "im a poshiter yid" bumper sticker...

I do teach Torrence to my kids.

Calling out the bad guys doesn't mean I want them to call them names or throw rocks at them.

All I try to do is make the bad ungodly low lifestyle look cheap in there eyes.

I will disagree that Hashem will keep those creeps he doesn't tolerate as he calls them out in the torah around after the coming of Moshiach.

I was thought in a shiur on mishlei by one of my greatest Rebbes that the reason why Hashem keeps creeps around is so that you can show your kids what the definition of a creep is & how not to act. In the words of Mishlei "Odom Lomeid MeiHaficho! A person learns from the Opposite!

Like a Rosh Yeshivah once said about a creep or low life, "He's a live Musar Sefer! Whatever you see him do, You should do the Opposite!"

Reb Guard,

Simply Classic it is!

Rage AT Machine wrote on 15 Oct 2009 20:28:


where on earth do you live?
on the border between san fransisco and oakland?

what's wrong with oakland?

guardureyes wrote on 15 Oct 2009 20:58:


Guard,you are brilliant.
This is amazing!
I love it!
I was discussing this tonight with a friend.
He asked me why I'm not learning in the mir (as was my plan)
I told him:because full-time yeshiva is not my job right now.
He was really like what??!!
The generation after the holocaust did all it could to preserve authentic judiasm.There were threats on all sides.Every new derech was chucked immediately and every bochur possible was sent to yeshiva.
We need to understand that the future of Torah is not as threatened as it was 60 years ago, and we can head back to a nice balanced medium.

Having said that, I think that sincerity is the answer.
Kids know sincerity more than adults do.
What comes from the heart,enters the heart.
We don't need to call anyone pigs.
That comes from a place of fear.
Just express the gadlus of kedusha in the most heart-felt way that you can,and you will be fine.
I am not married,and do not have any children (that I'm aware of)
But I do have a couple of younger siblings that I am basically a father to (my father has his own story)
And I've found that telling them "Goyim suck!" usually doesn't cut it.
Or it just makes them negative people.
I sit with them with a beer,and sunflower seeds,and talk about the gadlus of Hashem.
And Baruch Hashem,they are doing well,thank G-d,tfoo tfoo tfoo,knock on wood.

Just some ideas from a ignorant almost 21 year-old.
-uri

p.s. let the editing begin!

sturggle wrote on 15 Oct 2009 21:50:


o yea sorry sturggs.
Just a joke from a well-known comedian.
Rage will prob recognize it

Rage AT Machine wrote on 15 Oct 2009 22:24:


did anybody understand his post?

yechida wrote on 15 Oct 2009 19:27:


I think that telling a child to admire the cement is like telling him "dont think pink elephants". He is going to realize somethings up quicker than you can count the first crack. And you can bet your last buck he's going to take a double look to see whats got Tatty / Abba ? Daddy so nervous.

I agree that tolerance is the answer.
When my sons (and daughters) notice what shouldnt be seen, my reaction is "nebach. She has such a special neshama and doesnt even know it. How lucky you are to be learning in cheder / Beis Yaakov so you know better." This is the same basic idea I use for chilul Shabbos. I tell my kids scream "Shabbos, shabbos, shabbos!" -QUIETLY, INSIDE YOUR HEART. Because nebach, they dont know the beauty of shabbos. They dont know the beauty of tznius. All of us must scream silently to ourselves so we dont get used to it and take chillul shabbos / pritzus as a given fact and something to 'come to terms with'. Yes, it should hurt me, deep inside. Not only is another Yid doing an aveira, but my Tatte in Shamayim is hurting too.

Chutz la'aretz is no different. Even a goya has a neshama and laws of basic decency. I may not cry  for her personally, but will cry for the influence she is having on me.

[quote="guardureyes" link=topic=1120.msg23766#msg23766 date=1255640339]
Coca-Cola Classic -A young man speaking to the older generation
You raised children; we tried to raise gedolim.


[/quote]

Perhaps if we can teach tolerance, pity, and understanding, while not surrendering our personal pride, we may yet accomplish both.

efshar, i think i may have pulled the trigger a little too quickly...i once heard that fighting on the internet is like racing in the special olympics, even if you win, youre still handicapped...unfortunately, i am a little too quick to criticize and start fights on the internet...intolerance in the frum community is something that i am sensitive to, though...but sorry...(darn you,  step 10, darn you to heck)...

Rage, where the heck do you get these pictures :o :o :o

Please keep in mind this is a mixed forum. Females are squeamish creations.  >

7Up wrote on 15 Oct 2009 22:59:


Got 'im!
Just fed a live mosquito to my son's pet frog!
Hey, ya gotta do what ya gotta do!