I don't really understand what's happening in this thread. Is this a letter to be delivered to all robbonim? Are we being asked to give it to our own Rav, post it through his door, or something, or is it going to be published?

Second, I have absolutely no idea how well my Rav understands my problem because I've never once shared it with him. That's my fault, not the Rav's. Perhaps if I told him what I'm struggling with I might discover a very understanding source of chizzuk.

I agree with TZ that it needs to be shorter. Also, lose the r,r, and r. S,S and S. You can't write to R,R and Rs Rabbonim the same way you talk on this forum.

Many rabbonim, especially the good ones, are super busy. I'm not sure your suggestion is practiccal.

Perhaps in their drasha, they can say it is unfortunately not an uncommon problem, and I have helped many people deal with it. He can say something that shows that he does not look down upon an addict, and welcomes addicts to come speak with him. I think asking more than that is probably not realistic.

Also, the addict himself has to take some initiative. I see this as asking the Rav to take way too much responsibility. It's a person's job to seek out help, not the Rav's job to seek out problems. There are probably many people that have various problems. The Rav is there to help IF the person comes to the Rav. I don't think it's the Rav's responsibility to approach the person, and as someone said, the person will likely deny it (until they have no choice any more).

I think rabbonim are naturally becoming more aware as more and more people come to them. I know when I opened up to my rav (cuz my wife found out and I had no choice), he told us that he deals with it often. I hear a Rav Veiner recording, and he also said he deals with it often.

So, I'm not sure which rabbonim are in the dark. They may not know much about GYE, and we can tell them about it. I told my Rav about GYE and gave him some of the materials. He told me that someone else in our shul is also heavily involved in GYE (no, i don't know who it is).

I'm not sure I was so clear, but those are some of my stream-of-conciousness thoughts.

THANKS GIBBOR
VERY WELL SAID!

Dr.Watson wrote:


This was a suggestion. If the oilam here does not think it worthy it will be dropped. As of now, from those who chimed in, the majority consensus has been to tone it down, shorten it, and do not put too much stake in the results.

Regardin' your second question - that's exactly the point. You haven't discussed it with your Rav, for you did not approach him. But if he randomly would approach you, or like others said, indicate that he is accessible and available for these discussions, you might find a receptive, understanding, knowledgeable mentor, and it would be extremely beneficial.

cordnoy wrote:


My mashgiach gave shmuz on the topic once and stringly urged anyone who had this problem to discuss it with him. All it did was make me resolve more firmly to overcome this problem on my own so I'd never have to talk to him about it. That firm resolve lasted about a week and it never again occurred to me to speak to him about it.

Honestly, there was nothing more he could have done to help me. If he was more pushy I would have resented him. My failure to accept the help he was offering was entirely my fault, not his.

You didn't really answer my first question. There is a huge difference between a letter you send in the post and one you publish in the newspaper. Speaking only for myself, I would never dare send this to my Rav, for several reasons. I'm not saying you should drop it, I'm saying tov acharis dovor meireishiso.

this would not be published in a paper.
it would only be sent in a post after the board (us guys) approve it.

regarding your first point in this last post, that again is precisely my point...your mashgiach was probably ill-informed. he kinda figured that if he would issue stern warnin's you would stop. of course not. you just go deeper into hidin'. if the rabbanim become more in tune to what's goin' on, they could speak on a much different level, and then people will feel more comfortable to open up.

for example; im sure all of you heard the internet/filter/pornography/clickin'/poison/invadin' your house sppech/sermon/drasha more than once in your lifetime. what is always the endin'? If you don't listen to us, you're gonna end up doin' all sorts of aveiros which will permanently damage your soul, leadin' to divorce and excommunication and suicide. why does it need to be that way? why can't they say that if you don't heed our warnin's, and even if you do, but you are overcomed with desires, which may happen to some people, you will then need to seek help, and we are here for you, and we have some knowledge as to how to treat you, and there are solutions and answers and assistance available, but we are here now to try to circumvent that.

I don't know about you, but in my lifetime, I never heard that speech.

I hear. It reminds me of a shmuz I heard in which the Rav said again and again how 'dark and dangerous' TV was, but at no point during his 20 minute talk did he say why.

I still have a lot of thoughts going round and round but I can't seem to get any clarity with them. I guess I'm not sure what you expect from them, how could they possibly understand?

There's a reason that in SA we speak only of ourselves and our own experience. A Rav won't be able to do that. If they would just know where to send people who go to them with the problem maybe that would be enough. Like I said, maybe they already know that, I never asked.

Dr.Watson wrote:


DEPENDS WHICH RAV MY DEAR WATSON... DEPENDS WHICH RAV...

TehillimZugger wrote:


I'm fairly sure that even if my Rav were an addict he wouldn't tell me about it. Not even if I told him my problem first. Not even if it would help.

A Rav that really had what to share and would be willing to share is a one in a billion, possibly less (I wouldn't be surprised if there were less than 8 such Rabbonim in the world at present)

Dr.Watson wrote:


Either you never watched TV, or you watched too much. We need to be told why TV is dark and dangerous??

Machshovo Tova wrote:


Moh nafshoch, so why speak it about it at all?

It seems like I'm the only one getting confused here so I'll just leave the oilam to it.

Dr.Watson wrote:


The concept of Mussar is that we need to ingrain in our thick skull again and again that it is wrong, maybe it will penetrate (see Mesilas Yeshorim's hakdamah).

Machshovo Tova wrote:


So then speak about why it's wrong. Moh nafshoch. I'm getting more confused by the minute.

cordnoy wrote:


they are speaking to the hopefully majority who are not addicts, who may be scared enough by that speech to not take the first drink or at least not become addicted
you don't agree that that is an important speech?
we just want them to add that if someone is already in the quicksand they should be aware that there is help (hope) to be had

yes...I agree to the basic speech, but there are slight nuances that can be changed or addressed

thanks