I was in Yerushlaim yesterday but I could not come to the meeting. I will IY"H be there on Wednesday. Are you coming on Wednesday, or are you for the Sunday only??

wonderful a real meeting in Yerusalyim with real people not just cyberspace

Dov must be very pleased

I guess I can't pass the buck any longer, but must join

TG

JJ, I hope to be by every meeting I can. These chevra are the only chevra who I feel entirely comfortable with, and through that I am slowly becoming more comfortable with myself.

Hope to be there wednesday, see y'all!!

So, after such an UPLIFTING meeting last night, TZ and I went to the Kosel.

We saw alot of tourists, and wondered what exactly they see when they look at the stones. They're probably dead bored, so we decided to put on a bit of a show for them.

Lizhensk, I felt the same being there a few hours before you with tons of tourists around. They always take pictures of me faking to daven with kavonah and I wonder when will I find myself in a tourist picture book.

Thanks for allowing me to join O.I.N.K

but we need to be more structured not just a place to hang out

Clean day for everyone

We all agree, (to both the need of structure and the clean day for everyone )

We have been having a hard time finding exactly what we want, as we do want some hanging out as well.

You do have an advantage over the rest of us, as I think you came expecting something. Can you let us in on it?

What structure were you expecting?

1) get advice from the experts like dov
2) must be group leader
3) start on time, even if some are late
4) set a schedule something like:

20 mins - everyone's status
20 mins - 12 steps or whatever
20 mins - discuss a problem like stress which came up several times last night
remaining time for anything else

and keep to it
5) all of us must have some contact with someone else in the group everyday
6) make group rules which we all have to keep
7) for example when a lust attack starts and before the fall the member MUST contact other group member with an SOS

these are just suggestions

I do have a lot of experience in management but no experience with these groups which is why i want to hear from dov

Have a wonderful simchadic day

TG

think good wrote:


OK, is this thread private/ I hope so...cuz i will be frank and discourteous. (hahaha)

Your experience in management will bite you in the butt, chaver. And it will be a bad bite. (not to be triggering chuleelu)

This thing cannot work if we are controlling it, period. I suggested to someone in your group to read thru the 12 traditions (long form, or maybe even the entire 12 chapters in the back of the 12and12). Especially the tradition about "We have no leaders, only trusted servants, but are managed by a loving G-d Who reveals His Will through the group conscience of our members", or something like that.

And I see in the "20 minutes of that, 20 minutes of the other thing..." a typical thing I do - and many others do, too. It's overcontrolling and it will make you kookoo. (is that spelled with a k or with a c?) It will bring ego into your group and destroy it to the foundations. Practically every aspect of your suggestions from the "get advice from dov, it must be a group leader, start on time even if some are late," vechoolei - it's all gonna make you nuts, break apart your fellowship and all the good you have found, and u dont want that, do you? It's all typical addicts stuff, though, so whoever you are, TG, you are probably in the right place, at least!

Did youall really build this OINK thing - and are all the magical brochos of it your doing - or are they rather a magical gift from G-d? I'd guess it is the latter. And a healthy dose of child-like, irresponsible surrender is a good idea, here.

So take a look at the AAs and what they did. They straddled the beam between control and taking credit for success - and letting go and giving up to the group so as not to let planning and egos get the better of them...for that is what will happen to your fledgling group of you try to manage it too much, even if your suggestions are all perfect.

Well maybe this is advice from 'an expert', but it's mainly about not getting too much advice. Kind of funny...

Now what do you say?

thank you dov its an honor to get such a response!

you sure don't like the structure bit!!!

the idea is how to get more out of the meetings or is this even too controlling????

no one has any response?

I was serious when suggested reading carefully (not skimming) through the twelve traditions of AA - the second half of the AA book titled, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Tradidions." We have read it at meetings - it is just as much 'recovery' as reading the steppy stuff. If one takes it to heart. The steps and the traditions are both all about growing up, for a change. I need that. Maybe your OINKers do, too. It's OK. Real success will probably only come from something like that, I guess. You have my best wishes and hopes that I will b able to join an OINK the next time i visit the holy land.

Dov


will read carefully as you suggest.

OINK happy to have you aboard

nitzotzeloki wrote:

UPDATE:
We so far hav 730 brazillion people who have responded. We only have a limited amount of space left, so please contact one of our core members if you would like to join ASAP as possible.
It will be catered by Grandpa Cateres "Just the way your bubbe liked it!". We will also be joined by a very special guest speaker Rabbi Shais Taub DUVID CHAIM. So far, barring any last minute changes, it will be Sunday night at 9:30.

The Menu will include:
Doughnuts, served on a bed of mushrooms
Chicken soup from Greece
Heimishe Gefilte Fish topped with Black Jellybeans
And, of course, Safed's Famous Double-Cheese Pizza
(to seriously discuss the menu, please contact Grandpa or TZ)

Dessert will include Genuine Texan Iced Tea, with Sunflower Seeds and Parve Chee-Toes

Lizhensk wrote:

Did you mean, Doughnuts, served on a table of mushrooms?