Ok so I guess that if you act out you shouldn't learn anymore ??? :o :-\ :-\

Tried-123 wrote on 20 Apr 2010 04:37:



Egggsactly!  You wanna join me for a game of chess?  :-\ : :-X ???

Dear fellow chevramentchen,

If I understand what SB is saying, he just means that there is no way to automatically define anything as "a good thing to do". This is a very important rule to me. Even some things that are technically by definition "Good" (like Torah and Teshuva) can cause problems if not used according to the Owner's manual. And in my opinion, the ultimate rule of the "Owner's manual" is: if it actually results in me finally living a sane and useful life. Hashem defined a sane and useful life in the Torah, but as chazal tell us: "Hakol tolui beMazal (or "tzrichin Mazal"?) - afilu sefer Torah sheb'heichal!" The truth in the Torah needs common sense to make it actually lead to sane and useful living. We need Derech Eretz before we can really have Torah.

Disclaimer: The following paragraph may not apply to recovery by RR, Psychodrama, Hypnosis, will-power, or any other recovery method. It may only be relevant to 12 steps brand, ok?):

To me, recovery (I mean 12 steps, now) ends where Torah begins. It is a prerequisite and a partner with Torah, like Derech Eretz and sanity. Just like much of Derech Eretz is found in the Torah (as in "limad l'cho hakosuv Derech Eretz"), much of basic recovery concepts are found in the Torah. Yet neither are the same as "Torah". "Torah" refers to the goal - attaching to and accomplishing Hashem's Will. Recovery (per how I understand the 12 steps) is the door, for people who are ill and cannot just walk in (as everybody else seems to be able to). Like me.

Does that fit with what you were saying, Silentninjakillerdude?

First, since I started DC's group... I understand more where you are coming from....

Second, the actual Torah learning is not the problem (re. the guy who hung out at the beach...)

If I acted out and then want to do something good... I think that it's a great thing...

The issue for me is that I need to keep in mind that the good stuff I do doesn't make the bad stuff I do OK, or non-harmful...

The bad is bad....
But the good is still good.....

But I do relate very well to the fact that Torah needs to be learned properly for it to accomplish.... You can learn all you want but if you don't do what you gotta do... Your screwed.....

Take Care Brothers

Trying, you got it!

What I meant is that yes, Torah is a good thing, but not if we USE it in a bad way (even without realizing it on a fully conscious level).

silentbattle wrote on 20 Apr 2010 22:11:

I guess I was frustrated that in the original post you simply argued... when I meant what I just posted all along...

Sorry everyone for getting frustrated....

Peace unto you... Brothers...
May G-d grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change...

dov wrote on 18 Apr 2010 17:08:


Dear Dov:

  I deff. understand your point, and here especially in relation to Mikveh.

Here is a post I had made almost 2 years ago about my own experiences. You will see that we agree:




......"So, what did I do to deserve the heavenly assistance that we need?  I took it upon myself to tovel in the coldest mikveh in E.Y. (even colder than the Arizal's.)  Every Erev Shabbos I went to this mikveh will all of the kavanos of the Arizal, and even in the winter, no matter how cold it was, no matter how rainy or windy, I would enter this Mikveh. It was so cold that I felt as if my legs were being crushed, until finally, after about 2 minutes, they became completely numb. I welcomed this numbness. But, to dunk my head this was difficult. I had to do it so quickly without thinking about. Then, when I dunked my head for the 4th time, it felt like it was being squeezed in a vise. I thought my skull was going to crack.  
  I told Hashem, that to cause myself physical discomfort, this I was able and willing to do, just please don't let me have to fight the y.h. with my mind. I did this the entire winter, and what happened?
  IT DIDN'T HELP!!!   As soon as I thawed out, the menuval was there."


Yes I have given up my ideas of sigufim. Not for me....won't work.

But, I have also tried to keep a "balance" to not throw in the towel completely so to speak. So.....the freezing waters.....no thanks, (at least not for now), but how about a nice warm toasty mikveh? It may not cure my illness, but.....it certainly won't hurt, and can only help.....as long as I remember that it won't be "the" deciding factor in my recovery.

I remember once a Breslover speaking about this taiva. He said:  Arios is so difficult, you can be submerged in the mikveh while holding a Tikun Klali in your hands, and still............  So, now I stopped doing them together. I toivel, and then say the tikkun Haklali outside of the mikveh.

Parshas Emor:

... asher tetzei mimenu shichvas zerah... V'tamah ad ha'erev, v'lo yochal min hakodoshim ki im rochatz b'saro bamayim. _(22:7,6)

We are not eating kodoshim - yet. But we need all the kedusha that we can get. It will help us along in our fight.

Wow!

2 years have passed since this conversation??

A LOT of water passed under the bridge since then!!

Hopefully we all got better in the interim...
Mikveh adds additional kdusho and taharo, as we see in the example of Kohen Godol, who toiveled five times on Yom Kippur even though he didn't become tomei in the interim. It's just that the mikveh helped him ascend to higher levels of holiness as the day progressed.
So even if tvilas Ezra was bottul, or if you're single, there is still a reason to pratice regular toiveling.
As for the SSA strugglers, we just have to be smart about it and pick off-traffic hours for going, as well as take other precautions as guys have recently discussed here on the forum.

:-[ yes my friends its very sad I started this thread two years ago and nothing has changed. Things just got worse that's all.

No, No, it's just that הבא ליטהר מסייעין אותו can take some time. But it'll come, Hashem loves you.

Sounds frustrating. I have my struggles and troubles, too. If you have enough pain, then you will hopefully get the help you really need. That's the way it works for me. Pain is the only way to grow. But just having pain does nothing - it's the willingness to change that it gives us that is precious.

Hatzlocha finding help, sweet fellow mixedup guy!

It can take years of pain until we become willing to admit that the heroic path we were trudging along was an exercise in futility. We were just going around in circles.

Until we find the Willingness to make significant changes, we can't expect to see significant changes.


"Nothing Changes if nothing changes!"

Based on Mamar Mikveh Yisroel – There is a lot more there, we are just bringing down the easy concepts.

Before the sin of Adom the world was in a semi physical state leaning strongly to the spiritual side. When Adom sined he caused the whole world to physicalise. However waters represent the essence of purity and therefore did not become contaminated by the sin. They therefore retain a very high spiritual state, when one immerses in them he purifies himself. This is the meaning of the Medrash (Medrash Konen) that the lower waters wanted to rise up and join the upper waters until G-D kicked them down. The meaning is that they should have remained totally spiritual since they were unaffected by the sin. However G-D had mercy on the world and placed it in semi physical mater so sinners trying to repent can purify themselves.

Water manifest from the Upper Loving Kindness (Chesed) whose source is the Wisdom (Chochma) which is called Father (Abba). At this level there are no Klipot and external forces. These upper waters then manifest and filter through thousands of realms until they reach their physical state. When G-D wants to remove the control from the wicked forces and rulers, he brings forth the energy of the Chesed coming from Chochma. From this energy all the negative forces flee in panic. So too when a person enters the waters of the Mikvah, which is a lower manifestation of this energy, all the evil forces flee in panic.

One has to be very careful that he has no separating barrier on him when he immerses in the Mikvah (such as a band aid or dirt).

One has to make sure that he is fully immersed in the water and that not even one hair is sticking out.

There are Four Hundred main Camps of Impurity which manifested in the Four Hundred Men of Esav. The Mikvah contains Forty Seah each of which contain ten smaller units. When one immerses in the Mikvah each Seah removes Ten Camps of Impurity.

It is known from the Kabbalists that a person who immerses in the Mikvah even if he is unable to meditate on any of the Divine Names, he still brings upon himself a mighty spirit of purity.

Mikvas are not social bath houses and are not meant for entertainment and should not be used as places of relaxation.

There are only two Mitzvos that a person can immerse his whole body in, Mikvah and Sucah. A person who does not go to the Mikvah every day should at least do so on Sucot.

When a person immerses, he should meditate that as he is immersing bellow, his soul is immersing above in the fiery river of Dinor. For whatever a person does bellow, he causes his soul to do the same above.

It is very important for a person to bring himself to have some thought of repentance before he enters the Mikvah.

Even a person who regularly refrains from doing Kavanot and Meditating on divine names, since he considers himself unworthy and these things above his level. However the Kavanas of the Mikvah, every single person is permitted to make use of them, for the holiness of the Mikvah protects them.

If a person sees the forces of evil in a dream or vision (If a person is steeped in Pgam Bris they will look like women) he should immediately go immerse in a Mikvah even though he did not experience an emission. This is a sign that the forces of evil are lurking about him, waiting in ambush to defile him, as soon as they get a chance. One should immediately go destroy them in the Mikvah. This is mentioned in the words the Magid spoke to the Bais Yosef.

When a person has a family member who is heaven forbid sick, he should go to the mikvah for it can help. He should also dress in white.

It is known to the Kabbalists that there are three ways to rectify the soul. The first is through Fasting and Segufim. The second is through Crying and Tears and the third is through immersion in Mikvas.

It is very very important to immerse in a Mikvah on Erev Yom Kipor.

It is brought down by the Ari and the Rokach that before a person starts doing Teshuvah and a set of Segufim he should first try to immerse in a Mikvah.

Many famous Kabbalists would not let a person enter their room unless he had first immersed in a Mikvah.

Every person is surrounded by hundreds of Nigay Beni Adom (Afflictions of man) and Ruach Zenunim (Spirits of impurity) as well as many other categories of Klipot and external forces. These were created by all his sins in Action, Speech and Thought. Especially those created by Pgam Habris, these are fully considered his children. They follow him around all the time, every second of his life and even after his death. They do not leave his soul until it has been very purged and they are killed off by the suffering. When a person immerses in a Mikvah for the sake of purifying himself, all these forces temporarily leave him. When they leave him, he must use this time to strengthen his soul. Even though they return afterward, each time he dips for the sake of heaven of purifying himself, many of them are killed and exterminated.

There is also another element of negative energy, this comes from the inside of a person, this is his evil inclination (Yetzer) and the damaged parts of the soul. (This is why people feel Tzimzumim even when they are underwater). These do not leave him, but if a person is smart he can utilize the time in the Mikvah to rectify and purify these as well. The purity of the Mikvah reaches these as well. This is especially true in cold water.

Imagine to yourself two people; one is mercilessly beating up his friend. He is beating his head and body until it is filled with large ugly wounds. This exactly what a person does to his soul when he sins. When a person sins he beats his soul with cruel merciless blows, if a person could only hear the painful cries of his soul as he is beating it, he would not be able to withstand it for even a second. Now imagine a person who is very wasted, tired and weak. As he enters in cold water he suddenly regains his alertness. So too happens to the soul when it enters the Mikvah, it regains its alertness. The Mikvah cures and heals the soul. The effectiveness of this cure depends on the amount of sacrifice you had to go to the Mikvah, as well as the meditations that you do in it.

A big Kabbalist revealed to his students that the main levels he reached, was only from going to the Mikvah.

Know, that when you go to the Mikvah you remove part of your bad essence and destroy some of the thousands of Klipot surrounding you. You are also working to advance the rectification of the world as a whole.

There are two ways of sweetening the Judgments (Dinim) one is through money by doing a Pidyon Nefesh (redeeming the soul through money given to charity). The second is through the Mikvah. Even when a person does not have the power to nullify the Judgments, when he goes to the Mikvah he draws upon him Chasadim (Kindness). These intermingle with the Judjments and cause them to be less powerful.

A person has to be very careful not to think Torah or do Kavanot until he is in the water. He should be very careful not to do this in the dressing room or shower.

A person is not allowed to look at his own Bris and certainly not at his friend. A person has to be very careful not to look at the other people in the Mikvah.

It is very bad to talk to other people in the Mikvah. There are some very confused people who sit and socialize in the Mikvah while undressed. A fool like that is for sure causing much damage to his soul. A person should not spend an extra second undressed. If some one begins talking to you and you mast answer him for the sake of peace, then give him the shortest answer you can and try to get out of the conversation. A person should try his hardest not listen to the conversations of these foolish people who socialize in the Mikvah.

One must have at least these Kavanot in the Mikvah. Dip once to remove the impurity of the Sitra Acher. Dip a second time to draw Holiness on yourself and prepare yourself for prayer and Mitzvot.

It is also very important to have some thought of Teshuvah before immersing.
from truekabbalah.org