guardureyes wrote on 07 Apr 2010 12:10:


I've been trying to keep my mouth shut on this one. Difficult for me in any situation, but now I've fallen here, too.

I just want to share that mikveh should be an elevation of personal holiness.

I've heard so much around this thread and this site to use mikveh as a weapon. To FORCE yourself to go and be discovered, almost as a punishment when you fall. Or to remove certain tumah from the physical guf before it's possible to work through the spiritual implications. Or other such items that don't relate to a spiritual elevation.

What we call tumas keri is probably no worse than tumas mes, yet we don't all go dunk every time we're at a funeral. A nocturnal emission is probably no aveirah and no tumeh at all, yet folks seem as depressed about one as about an intentional fall.

Using mikveh as a punishment and a kapparah, or even as a prerequisite to tsuvah, strikes me as odd.  Unless, of course, you're putting equal emphasis into every flavor of tumeh.

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. My understanding is that specifically in regard to tumas keri, there was supposed to be a requirement to go to the mikva before learning torah.

It was based on an issur to be called up to the torah for an aliyah (and possibly an issur to learn Torah as u said) while you are tameh. This was simply instituted as a gzeirah d-rabanan in order to prevent men from over-indulging in relations with their wives. The Shulchan Aruch explains clearly that this gzeirah was repealed (possibly by Ezra??) and therefore does not apply today. If you think about it, it only makes sense as a gzeirah d-rabanan because of the concept in Yadaim (and elsewhere) that dvarim sheb-kedusha einam mekablim tumah.

I am sorry for not giving sources. I cannot remember the siman in Sh"A right now. If someone else knows - please share.

Not exactly.  We today are ALL tamei mes. A meis when being immersed in a mikvah is still tamei meis...right? And, all of us living, also are until you can fine a red heifer, i.e. parah adumah.

But, keri, this is something different. I don't know if you ever saw that video here on GYE about the yid who went to the other world. Anyway, each drop that is motzei z"l, (not talking about a mikreh Lilah, where the person is not responsible...), but one who purposely is motzei sh'z"l, each drop is a neshoma that is captured by the chitzonim, and caused much suffering. Rabbi Nachman z"l states that if one toivels immediately in a mikveh, and then says the tikun Klali, this will have great benefit in saving these neshomos....these drops from falling into the side of the chiztonim. This aspect has nothing to do with our own psychological confussion about tshuva, or not etc. This is a chessed for these neshomos, and not to mention for ourselves in the end, if we don't help them.

On the other hand, if it was an innocent mikreh lilah, the R. Nachman says it is nothing to worry about.

Actually Birut, thank you for reminding me about this. This was never mentioned above, and this is perfect reason for EVERYONE who has fallen, even if it is every night....to toivel, and help to save these neshomos.

http://rehab-my-site.com/guardureyes/forum/index.php?topic=1891.30

I share with others here the strong desire to go to into a mikvah should I need to go, such as after a wet dream or acting out, R"l.

But what I really want to focus on for myself and for everyone else here is: not needing to go to the mikvah. It should be a gift to Hashem and to me, period. Just because it is also a great 'mop', doesn't mean it needs to be always used that way and thought of that way. The same goes for Hashem's Love for me, k'vayochol. Just because He helps fix me so well, does not mean that He wants me to only view him as my 'repair man'. There is so much more to the relationship than coming to Him crying because I have fallen! (Though that was all I ever did with Him, back then!)

As long as I am sober be"H, going to the mikvah will be a choice I make. It won't be associated with a yucky mess. Rather, it will always be about me changing from a person (with problems) who He loves, to a shiny and beautiful person (with problems) who He loves.

It's just nicer (and more fun) to live with Him that way!

Chasidim go to the mikve every day. In addition to cleansing of Tumah, a mikve bring kedusha onto a person.

The Kohen godol on Yom Kippur in the Beis Hamikdash went to the mikve upon exiting the Kodesh Kodoshim! The holiest person on the holiest day at the holiest place still had use for the added kedusha that mikve brings!!!!

One of the Rebbes said, A convert must use the mikve to change from a non-jew into a jew. Then it is a Kl v'chomer that a mikve has the power to change someone who is already a jew into a better jew!

Did anyone ever hear of going to mikveh before a fall. To be mosef taharah

just found this statement of "yosef hatzadik"The famous Mashgiach R' Elya Lopian said that he enjoys seeing the chasidishe bochurim coming from the mikve. The tehara is noticable on their faces.
I don't understand according to your logic he should tell the boys in his yeshiva to use the mikvah?

The answer is everybody knows that a mikveh is mosef taharah.The question is when are you subsituting growth with work for groepwth that comes easy without work

Good question. Which brings up a point that's got my spiritual undies all in a bunch:

We all sing Rabbee Akivah's ma'amar about "Mikveh yisroel Hashem" on Lag baOmer, right? Don't we hear what we are saying?

Hashem is our Mikvah - not the mikvah, but Hashem. Now, what's that supposed to mean? To me, it means that our mikvah of water is an embodiment of Hashem's Chesed. When we connect to Hashem in His Chesed (Love), we are immediately purified. His Chesed is above all Dinim, and certainly "above" all Tum'ah, as Tum'ah is only an expression of Dinim. Our Tum'ah isn't really removed - rather, it becomes irrelevant.

Mazel Tov. So it is all about Hashem after all, at least the way I see it. But this has to be real, to accomplish anything at all.
For those who in their hearts are still looking at the mikvah as having some magical power endowed by Hashem, I maintain that they are diconnecting the whole idea of mikvah from Hashem. Malochim and stars are also endowed with power. Uh-oh.

No matter how much kedusha and tahara those fellows feel they are connecting to, to me it's still the opposite of the recovery I know in my life. At its root, it'd still be all about me and my power to finally "beat this thing". It's white-knuckling. To me, white-knuckling doesn't get any better by using Hashem's name a lot or by my being more dedicated to Torah and mitzvos - it's still white-knuckling and brings no relief. The struggle and "pressure" only builds up over time that way. Double uh-oh.

So, I am not saying anything different than my earlier two posts that were pro-mikvah. My only point is that Mikveh yisroel Hashem: it has to be all about Hashem, not our struggle. Not about beating lust. Not about winning, but about Hashem. Should He decide to lift me above the lust, great! It's up to Him. All I can do is try to connect to him by mesiras nefesh, which literally means "giving myself and my will over to Him". If mikveh helps me do that. it'll work - like a charm!   If not, it's just another opportunity for dissilusionment with yiddishkeit. Again.

Just wanted to share that I don't usually go to the Mikveh...
Before this past Shabbos I decided to go for it...
I felt a bit closer to Shabbos... I haven't sung the Zemiros with such intensity in quiet a while....

Peace and Love....

tried -123....


OUTSTANDING!!!!

while we are on the topic of zemers. How about some trivia...
One of the kosher animals listed in the Torah is the zemer...common opinion is this is a giraffe.

A human has 7 vertabre in the neck.
How many do you think a giraffe has?



BTW - I once heard a shiur that even though the common school of thought is we dont eat giraffe because we dont have a mesorah as to where to schecht a giraffe, this is actually not true. The gemeroh discusses how to schecht the giraffe. So what is the problem...

at close to $100,000 per kilo - it is not too cost efficient.
Not to mention the giraffe has the ability to kick - full force, in a 360 degree range. Not sure I would want to be the one approaching the giraffe with a sharp knife in my hand....

Not to mention that my wife woudl probably get tired of hearing me complain, "What leg of Giraffe again??? We had that for the past 6-months cannot you make anything else?? "

charosets

Once we are on the topic of wildlife, I'd like to say that I am through with the wild life.  :

Dov -

this is really tough for me...
this is the second time tonight I was going to respond to your comments with a joke...

I decided not too:

1. because they might be misinterpreted and someone (ie, myself ) might get triggered
2. i realize that light headedness is what got me here in the first place.

BE"H maybe I am finally getting it, and Growing-up (versus Giving-In)

its not easy being a miserable, old man, at my age and having to grow-up.

I guess its better than waiting 10 years and having to do this....of course if I wait long long enough...I'll become to forgetful to remember wy I was trying to grow up in the first place...

but that is not why we are here, right.

BE"H with the help of GYE we will all figure it out...

charoset.

Believe it or not, that was hilarious even though you were serious. You have a koach, my friend! Either that or I've had too much spirulina goo with lunch...

Seriously, thanks for the reply. I hear everything you write loud and clear.