Thought I'd open up this conversation.  

I think everyone has pondered this at some point.  Everlasting change sounds awesome, if there was a magic pill to solve your problem who wouldn't take it right?  Being that the magic pill is not available in your local pharmacy (or whatever Americans calls it) who can say they have achieved everlasting change!

ODAAT sounds more realistic but at the same time somewhat disheartening, have I really changed, if I can only focus on today?  Would love everyone to weigh in on this especially the heavyweight hashkofa minds of GYE, you guys know who you are so don't be shy!! hopefully it will help everyone get clarity on this important issue.

I'm def not a heavyweight hashkofa mind of GYE, but I do have something to say, stay around to listen.
A streak def feels good, but if we understand that every time we hold back, even if we fall in the end its still a huge win cuz we held back. Then ODAAT is so important.
Lets focus on Today, Am I the best I could be today? The answer is yes, cuz I'm changing and getting better! 
I controlled myself today, and even more important I cared enough to control myself!
That's a crazy big step for me!!

But yeah it also feels good to say how many days clean you are, but I don't think its the focus.

cleanmendy wrote on 17 Jan 2025 15:20:

The main words here are the bolded words

Seriously, CM, you are very right.
Yosefms, the question you ask, am I changing if all I'm doing is today, the answer is absolutely yes! Of course you're changing! You are learning to change your behavior, to break old habits, and that's change. 
And really, the term everlasting change is a falsehood that has the same problem that amevakesh wrote about in his post. If a guy goes 10 years without watching porn, and then he falls, he watched porn for an hour, so he didn't achieve the goal? That would be the silliest thing to say. Because no matter what we will do, we still have a Yetzer Hara. And if we have a YH, that means we will face challenges. And if we have challenges then by definition the possibility of falling exists. So, simple math brings us to the conclusion that our goal is not to never fall again, because nothing we will ever do will guarantee that. Rather, our goal is to protect ourselves the best we possibly can, and to change our attitude about ourselves and these behaviors. With every day that we stay away from these things we reinforce the message that these behaviors are just not an option. That is change, and that is success

I agree with what has been said in the thread.

Two points to keep in mind for real hatzlacha:

Hashem is sending me very very strong signals about a couple very basic points:1. the negative behaviors are fully rooted in very poor self esteem and false negative beliefs about oneself - putting oneself down in such a severe deep rooted way.  but changing beliefs about oneself and what challenges in life have been - that they do not mean one is a loser - adaraba one is a warrior assigned by Hashem to battle the darkness that one was assigned to battle and have overcome with His siyata dishmaya - not just this issue of tahara but so many things it would be impossible to list them all for each one, but coming from one's particular background, one needs to feel very proud of onself, and that feeling proud of onself and believing one is good, safe, and on a specific journey and is suceeding, and one bvaday will have Hashem’s help all the way through - these are the beliefs that will fortify one to stay away from shmutz for good.2. when one is clean, one does't just feel good - one will see miracles based on being in a good or at least decent, neutral mood, calm and collected A goy could interpret these things as chance - a yid who is looking for the yad hashem says - hey, wait a minute - these are literally miracles.  The satan says - nu, you are in a good mood, so what, eventually you will have a challenge in life that you will cringe so hard from that you will have no other way to feel better but shmutz.  The yetzer ha tov says - if I stay clean, then I will always have enough presence of mind to handle any challenges -  I may not feel amazing and instantly gratified during the challenge, but I will elevate the challenge, which is the ikkar point of being alive. Running to shmutz is escaping the ikkar point of life - it is to run away from facing challenges and elevating challenges like a mentch, as if I am here to just be comfortable, relax, and be stimulated.   What a lazy way to be a human being, let’s be honest.  This is the pgam.  Does a human being want to be a human being, or just be lazy and afraid.

DROP THE FEAR OF LIFE AND CHALLENGES, AND EMBRACE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ELEVATE CHALLENGES AND CONQUER CHALLENGES LIKE A WARRIOR, TRUSTING IN HASHEM'S HELP TO ELEVATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, EVEN IF OFTEN IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE, WITHOUT THE AUTOMATIC NEED TO COMFORT AND SELF SOOTHE WHEN LIFE GET'S UNCOMFORTABLE, AND TO HAVE EXTREMELY POSITIVE BELIEFS ABOUT ONSELF - THAT IS THE IKKAR NEKUDA

eerie wrote on 17 Jan 2025 18:39:

I apologize for going off topic, but this is something people here, especially new ones, absolutely need to hear.
Unfortunately, many people don't get this and they think that they are "breaking free" forever. 
Breaking free just means, at least to me, the ability to grab back my real bechira and understand that I have a choice in front of me (time to choose how to react to the stimuli). I can choose to engage in an act I don't want to do or I can choose to keep on going, to choose the real life available in overcoming challenges. (For me TBOTG was crucial in jumpstarting me in that direction.)

Thank you my dear friend eerie for articulating it clearly and succintly!

I would like to share a personal haarah I discussed offline recently that speaks of my view on the forever within ODAAT.

Today I believe that I will be clean for the rest of my mission in this world, but I guess it's not a factor in my calculation of shleimus in the moment. I hope to achieve so much more, and I'm still alive - so there is work to be done. Somehow, it feels like I need to keep the book open to keep growing and not expect anything, even though I believe it.

Perhaps I can say like this: I don't focus on expectations to stay clean forever. Right now, in this moment, I am clean forever.

Perhaps it may appear to be an obscure distinction, but I believe it's an entirely different mindset. It's not about thinking that I will hit the bullseye every time I fire an arrow. It's about knowing my potential to draw the bow and aim true. Before I release, I know it should hit the target, so it's not the result that is meaningful, it's the stance. Being clean tomorrow and thereafter is hitting the target. Being the guy today that will be clean tomorrow and thereafter is pulling back and aiming.

Hitting the target is a result.
Aiming is where life and growth happens. 

Everlasting change doesn't just exist some time in the distant future, it is happening right now.