I need to remember,
p&m is not a way for me to dissipate my anger,
it is not a "safe space" for me,
it is not a cheap thrill.
it only hurts me, now and later.
It hurts those who participate in it, too -- in ways that they don't even know.  I regret and lament that I was ever involved in it.

If you are in the Flight to Freedom program, keep working the program.  Best of luck!

turning.point wrote on 24 Aug 2022 01:12:

I have a Rav who is a dear friend. I really look up to him. I want very much to open up to him but I am too afraid. Partly because my issue is not just porn and masturbation but serious SSA as well. I don’t know how he would react and if my wife found out it would humiliate her (even though she is well aware of the SSA issues — I doubt she would want it shared with anyone.) I feel very alone, even though I have people who love me. I feel alone in my battle against homosexuality (let’s call it what it is, at least for me, it’s not just a random attraction.) It makes me so incredibly sad. I don’t even know why I’m posting here. This is not the SSA forum. I’m just so lonely for understanding and help and support. 

turning.point wrote on 30 Oct 2022 22:21:

You are correct. It is not any of those things. However, for me, it is the only coping tool I have ever had since I was a young boy. I was raised not frum so I was taught it was healthy and normal. It is deeply engrained in me as a soothing mechanism for depression, stress, anxiety, sleeplessness…you name it. I’m on day 11 of my 90 day attempt. It is getting harder. I miss it. I am stressed and sad and feeling triggered wherever I go. 

It is crucial that you develop another outlet for these feelings. If you are feeling stressed and sad wherever you go then it sounds like you do not have these outlets in place.

Feel free to express your anger and all your other feelings on the thread in the "break free" column titled "a safe space". I created it in order for those who feel like porn is their "safe space" to be able to vent and share in a different type of "safe place"

Hey, this is just one piece of the puzzle, and it is not the entire solution.  As someone else wisely pointed out, THE HUMAN CONNECTION that we have with our friends here on GYE is a CRUCIAL COMPONENT to staying well.



In my minyan I am blessed with the support of other people who are on GYE (although I don't know their profile names so it remains anonymous.)  Also, I have a Rabbi who guides me and knows about my struggles.



I encourage anyone and everyone reading this thread to get some help in real life, not just through GYE.  Whether this is through a rav or through a therapist, that is up to you.  I know that this is a difficult step.  I'm not saying to do all of it at once.  Do what you can.  Of course, BE CAREFUL about who you share this problem with.  It is not a problem that everyone can handle.  If you travel to a different town and daven at a shul which you don't usually attend, maybe there you can ask for help "anonymously."I have a Rav who is a dear friend. I really look up to him. I want very much to open up to him but I am too afraid. Partly because my issue is not just porn and masturbation but serious SSA as well. I don’t know how he would react and if my wife found out it would humiliate her (even though she is well aware of the SSA issues — I doubt she would want it shared with anyone.) I feel very alone, even though I have people who love me. I feel alone in my battle against homosexuality (let’s call it what it is, at least for me, it’s not just a random attraction.) It makes me so incredibly sad. I don’t even know why I’m posting here. This is not the SSA forum. I’m just so lonely for understanding and help and support. Many rabbonim are very familiar with SSA as well. Obviously be cautious but don't just assume that you cannot find a rav to speak with - including your own.

Hashem help me. Absolutely. There was no way to express it better. I'm waiting to meet you and hug you, homosexuality and all! Theres no way that anyone cant love you for real. your just the most authentic, good, straight and holy person around. we love you.

How can there still be people out there that judge? why cant they wake up and smell the 99999999999999999999 cartons of coffee?

I will never be able to reconcile how the victims ("models" or "actors") of p&m suffer and how I took advantage of it.  That chills me, and it is another reason to stay away.

SSA was never really a problem for me.  I knew that I liked women from an early age, and my father taught me that SSA was wrong.  My mother is too compassionate towards people with an SSA problem, and unfortunately I learned to be too tolerant.  People with the SSA problem think that because I'm polite that I'm available to them.  I have no choice but to be stern with them so that they know that I'm not interested.  Sometimes those men get hostile with me.  I just say no.

I wasn't shy talking to women, so I never felt lacking.  I was confident that I could talk to a woman if I wanted - but that became superficial arrogance.  I feel bad for men who think they have no choice but to seek satisfaction from other men.  I also feel bad for men who think that their only choice or best choice is to seduce, trap or use (and abuse) women.  All that is objectification.

Attraction to the opposite sex, when directed towards the good in a way that the Creator of the Universe bestows his favor and blessings on the marriage, can lead to many mitzvahs.

Lust is a powerful and evil force, though.  Lust makes me chase highs, and it breaks down moral barriers.  This is why in English there exists the expression, "too much is never enough."  I can see how someone could get lost in fantasy and a need for affection.  It is very sad.

No amount of short-term giddiness can substitute for the joy of a long-term loving relationship.  No SSA relationship can yield any merit like a marriage.

In my past I didn't spend my time doing mitzvahs, and I lost the connection to reality.  If I hadn't stopped, I don't know where I would have gone.  I'm grateful to the Most Merciful One for being patient with me up to now.  I'm staying away from it now.

A mitzvah has two components : the physical and the spiritual.  For example, the connection of Tehilim comes from the recitation, which is more than just reading silently.  Similarly, when I do my job in a proper manner, a vessel is created within which to receive the blessings that the Creator sees fit to bestow.  I pray for strength to work.  I intend to work properly, ethically, and for the sake of sustaining life for myself and others, trusting the Eternal to watch over me and guide me.

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:

Wow.  Just wow. “My mother was too compassionate toward the people with an SSA problem? And unfortunately, I learned to be too tolerant…” One more WOW! I have to say that a couple of statements in this post strike me as arrogant, condescending, and just plain insulting, and show a deeply overly simplistic understanding of people with SSA and their struggles. You seem like you want to think of yourself as a good Jew, so maybe you want to rethink some of these statements that are offensive to so many of your fellow Jews and brothers on GYE. I know I’d be ashamed to make such disparaging statements on a forum meant to be supportive to others. 

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:

Hey, @turning.point…how about an acknowledgment that you were hurtful in disparaging an entire segment of people on this site speaking about things you have no knowledge of? 

Teshuvahguy wrote on 01 Dec 2022 18:44:

IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important; and giving approval and/ or acceptance, tacit or otherwise to a public display of gay love for example. Judaism understands that the holiness of intimacy relegates it to the privacy of the bedroom, and outward expression of affection in public (D'vorim Shel Chiba) is Halachically prohibited even in a heterosexual relationship. SSA is not a choice, but Tznius about it is. I may be wrong, but personally the only context where the mother can be "too compassionate towards SSA" is where it is used as a teachable moment for a child/teen about tolerance, perhaps when passing a gay couple kissing on the street. In summary: if the original post intended "over-tolerance" in reference to public display of SSA, then it may be (partially) justified.

@jackthejew, I have tremendous respect for you based on your posts that I have read. I’m finding it a stretch to think that the statements made (and the tone with which those statements were made) were dealing specifically with the context you cite. I’ve read it over many times and the tone and content seems judgmental and condescending, and unbecoming of a member of GYE to his fellow Jews who deal with a very serious issue. I am not sure what @turning.point’s own particular struggle is, but when he has been through in life what I have been through, then he will have license to speak of such things. Until then, best to heal your own issues and fight your own YH and not opine about the very different struggles of others. What would be really nice is if @turning.point would clarify what he meant.