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TOPIC: cold showers 2685 Views

Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 18:28 #388789

  • teshuvahguy
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jackthejew wrote on 01 Dec 2022 19:42:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 01 Dec 2022 18:44:

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:
SSA was never really a problem for me.  I knew that I liked women from an early age, and my father taught me that SSA was wrong.  My mother is too compassionate towards people with an SSA problem, and unfortunately I learned to be too tolerant.  (Shortened quote to shorten the post)

Wow.  Just wow. “My mother was too compassionate toward the people with an SSA problem? And unfortunately, I learned to be too tolerant…” One more WOW! I have to say that a couple of statements in this post strike me as arrogant, condescending, and just plain insulting, and show a deeply overly simplistic understanding of people with SSA and their struggles. You seem like you want to think of yourself as a good Jew, so maybe you want to rethink some of these statements that are offensive to so many of your fellow Jews and brothers on GYE. I know I’d be ashamed to make such disparaging statements on a forum meant to be supportive to others. 
Hey, @turning.point…how about an acknowledgment that you were hurtful in disparaging an entire segment of people on this site speaking about things you have no knowledge of? 

IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important; and giving approval and/ or acceptance, tacit or otherwise to a public display of gay love for example. Judaism understands that the holiness of intimacy relegates it to the privacy of the bedroom, and outward expression of affection in public (D'vorim Shel Chiba) is Halachically prohibited even in a heterosexual relationship. SSA is not a choice, but Tznius about it is. I may be wrong, but personally the only context where the mother can be "too compassionate towards SSA" is where it is used as a teachable moment for a child/teen about tolerance, perhaps when passing a gay couple kissing on the street. In summary: if the original post intended "over-tolerance" in reference to public display of SSA, then it may be (partially) justified.

Really disappointed, @JacktheJew, that you chose to look for the narrowest and most far-fetched possible explanation to defend this hurtful post from @turning.point instead of offering support to me and anyone else who would be offended by the post. It was really shocking to me that no one supported me here. I reported the post to moderators and nothing was done. I saw that @turning.point was on this thread at the same time and chose to say nothing. This contributed to my feeling ostracized here for the SSA issue I have. I’m going to stop here before I say something I’ll genuinely regret. 

Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 19:05 #388796

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TG i understand you feel hurt. I don't see every post and did not previously notice what turning point wrote. Not everyone is tuned in to the nuanced differences between terminologies. In the original post, please replace "SSA" with "openly engaging in homosexual activity". With that understanding the post is not offensive at all. I believe that many people who don't have the SSA struggle would have replaced the words subconsciously as they read the post. For someone that is actively struggling, the difference is as clear as night and day and the post is absolutely offensive.

It is totally conceivable that the original writer did not understand that SSA does NOT mean openly advocating or accepting non traditional marriage. SSA is a painful reality to many in the frum community who did not chose this attraction. They deserve all of our respect and compassion.

I am sorry for your hurt and hope that this can make the post more understandable. I did not go back to look at the full context of the conversation, so please correct me if i missed something here.

best wishes,
vehkam
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some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.

Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 19:15 #388798

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Vehkam wrote on 02 Dec 2022 19:05:
TG i understand you feel hurt. I don't see every post and did not previously notice what turning point wrote. Not everyone is tuned in to the nuanced differences between terminologies. In the original post, please replace "SSA" with "openly engaging in homosexual activity". With that understanding the post is not offensive at all. I believe that many people who don't have the SSA struggle would have replaced the words subconsciously as they read the post. For someone that is actively struggling, the difference is as clear as night and day and the post is absolutely offensive.

It is totally conceivable that the original writer did not understand that SSA does NOT mean openly advocating or accepting non traditional marriage. SSA is a painful reality to many in the frum community who did not chose this attraction. They deserve all of our respect and compassion.

I am sorry for your hurt and hope that this can make the post more understandable. I did not go back to look at the full context of the conversation, so please correct me if i missed something here.

best wishes,
vehkam

Turning.point had posted earlier about the need to connect with real people in order to help recovery. I responded that that is very hard for me because of the SSA. I am even more afraid to try to talk to a Rav because I’m afraid of being judged much more harshly for the SSA than for the porn or mast. His “offensive” post was in response to my sharing how hard it would be to trust any rabbi (even those I admire and love) because of the SSA and once you say it you can’t take it back. So I didn’t really understand how him glibly and smugly talking about how easy it always was for him with girls and how he had to be “stern” with those evil SSA guys (because he is “too polite”) was a compassionate response to my post about my fear of opening up to a rabbi.
Last Edit: 02 Dec 2022 19:15 by teshuvahguy.

Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 20:29 #388804

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Teshuvahguy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 18:28:

jackthejew wrote on 01 Dec 2022 19:42:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 01 Dec 2022 18:44:

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:
SSA was never really a problem for me.  I knew that I liked women from an early age, and my father taught me that SSA was wrong.  My mother is too compassionate towards people with an SSA problem, and unfortunately I learned to be too tolerant.  (Shortened quote to shorten the post)

Wow.  Just wow. “My mother was too compassionate toward the people with an SSA problem? And unfortunately, I learned to be too tolerant…” One more WOW! I have to say that a couple of statements in this post strike me as arrogant, condescending, and just plain insulting, and show a deeply overly simplistic understanding of people with SSA and their struggles. You seem like you want to think of yourself as a good Jew, so maybe you want to rethink some of these statements that are offensive to so many of your fellow Jews and brothers on GYE. I know I’d be ashamed to make such disparaging statements on a forum meant to be supportive to others. 
Hey, @turning.point…how about an acknowledgment that you were hurtful in disparaging an entire segment of people on this site speaking about things you have no knowledge of? 

IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important; and giving approval and/ or acceptance, tacit or otherwise to a public display of gay love for example. Judaism understands that the holiness of intimacy relegates it to the privacy of the bedroom, and outward expression of affection in public (D'vorim Shel Chiba) is Halachically prohibited even in a heterosexual relationship. SSA is not a choice, but Tznius about it is. I may be wrong, but personally the only context where the mother can be "too compassionate towards SSA" is where it is used as a teachable moment for a child/teen about tolerance, perhaps when passing a gay couple kissing on the street. In summary: if the original post intended "over-tolerance" in reference to public display of SSA, then it may be (partially) justified.

Really disappointed, @JacktheJew, that you chose to look for the narrowest and most far-fetched possible explanation to defend this hurtful post from @turning.point instead of offering support to me and anyone else who would be offended by the post. It was really shocking to me that no one supported me here. I reported the post to moderators and nothing was done. I saw that @turning.point was on this thread at the same time and chose to say nothing. This contributed to my feeling ostracized here for the SSA issue I have. I’m going to stop here before I say something I’ll genuinely regret. 

My apologies. I saw the original post, cringed, got upset, and eventually went further.
1. I have been extremely busy.
2. Main reason is I'm a loose moderator and always have been. People should say what's on their mind. Why should one get insulted from the text and opinions of some anonymous, pajama-clad, basement-dweller, missin'-teeth, foul-odored, pot-bellied, winston-smokin', soap-allergic freak? Who really gives a damn? And if someone does care, then go ahead and say somethin'! Yes, some folks are shy.
3. The posts from the previous generation were more playful, humorous and fun-lovin'.

Godspeed to all
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Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 20:35 #388805

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By the way, where is it written that it's halachically forbidden to engage in dvarim shel chibah in public?
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

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:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
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Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

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Re: cold showers 02 Dec 2022 20:46 #388806

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cordnoy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 20:29:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 18:28:

jackthejew wrote on 01 Dec 2022 19:42:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 01 Dec 2022 18:44:

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:
SSA was never really a problem for me.  I knew that I liked women from an early age, and my father taught me that SSA was wrong.  My mother is too compassionate towards people with an SSA problem, and unfortunately I learned to be too tolerant.  (Shortened quote to shorten the post)

Wow.  Just wow. “My mother was too compassionate toward the people with an SSA problem? And unfortunately, I learned to be too tolerant…” One more WOW! I have to say that a couple of statements in this post strike me as arrogant, condescending, and just plain insulting, and show a deeply overly simplistic understanding of people with SSA and their struggles. You seem like you want to think of yourself as a good Jew, so maybe you want to rethink some of these statements that are offensive to so many of your fellow Jews and brothers on GYE. I know I’d be ashamed to make such disparaging statements on a forum meant to be supportive to others. 
Hey, @turning.point…how about an acknowledgment that you were hurtful in disparaging an entire segment of people on this site speaking about things you have no knowledge of? 

IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important; and giving approval and/ or acceptance, tacit or otherwise to a public display of gay love for example. Judaism understands that the holiness of intimacy relegates it to the privacy of the bedroom, and outward expression of affection in public (D'vorim Shel Chiba) is Halachically prohibited even in a heterosexual relationship. SSA is not a choice, but Tznius about it is. I may be wrong, but personally the only context where the mother can be "too compassionate towards SSA" is where it is used as a teachable moment for a child/teen about tolerance, perhaps when passing a gay couple kissing on the street. In summary: if the original post intended "over-tolerance" in reference to public display of SSA, then it may be (partially) justified.

Really disappointed, @JacktheJew, that you chose to look for the narrowest and most far-fetched possible explanation to defend this hurtful post from @turning.point instead of offering support to me and anyone else who would be offended by the post. It was really shocking to me that no one supported me here. I reported the post to moderators and nothing was done. I saw that @turning.point was on this thread at the same time and chose to say nothing. This contributed to my feeling ostracized here for the SSA issue I have. I’m going to stop here before I say something I’ll genuinely regret. 

My apologies. I saw the original post, cringed, got upset, and eventually went further.
1. I have been extremely busy.
2. Main reason is I'm a loose moderator and always have been. People should say what's on their mind. Why should one get insulted from the text and opinions of some anonymous, pajama-clad, basement-dweller, missin'-teeth, foul-odored, pot-bellied, winston-smokin', soap-allergic freak? Who really gives a damn? And if someone does care, then go ahead and say somethin'! Yes, some folks are shy.
3. The posts from the previous generation were more playful, humorous and fun-lovin'.

Godspeed to all

Honestly, not sure what you are trying to say here and whether or not you are speaking as a moderator or member. But I’m over it so let’s move on!

By the way, I’m neither in my pajamas or a basement, don’t smoke, have all my teeth and don’t smell, so I’m sure you didn’t mean me! 

Be well. 

Re: cold showers 03 Dec 2022 17:12 #388813

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Teshuvahguy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 18:28:


IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important;

Really disappointed, @JacktheJew, that you chose to look for the narrowest and most far-fetched possible explanation to defend this hurtful post from @turning.point instead of offering support to me and anyone else who would be offended by the post. It was really shocking to me that no one supported me here.  This contributed to my feeling ostracized here for the SSA issue I have. I’m going to stop here before I say something I’ll genuinely regret. 

I sincerely apologize if my post came across as minimizing or offensive. (I haven't responded until now because when you posted this it was Shabbos in Jerusalem) I was reading it, as @vehkam explained, as refering to Public displays.The sentence I've quoted above from my original post was intended in sympathy for those who took it differently. I apologize if I didn't make that clear enough Please feel free to reach out by email jackthejewgye@gmail.com.
Off the forum for now.
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Last Edit: 03 Dec 2022 17:15 by jackthejew.

Re: cold showers 04 Dec 2022 01:30 #388824

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Thank you, JacktheJew. I really appreciate your response. I don’t know what happened to me toward the end of last week, but I was having a very, very difficult couple of days emotionally. There is some family stuff going on and it just got to me. Thanks for being there for me. 

Re: cold showers 04 Dec 2022 07:37 #388847

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cordnoy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 20:35:
By the way, where is it written that it's halachically forbidden to engage in dvarim shel chibah in public?

Bava Basra 58a (from Dafyomi.co.il) 

 See also the Nimukei Yosef on the Gemara here (31a of the pages of the Rif, just before the Mishnah), who writes that since the Gemara says that there is no Yetzer ha'Ra in the World to Come, in this world -- where the Yetzer ha'Ra prevails -- it is not appropriate or modest to carry out such practices in front of others, even with one's own wife.

This teaching is in fact recorded as the Halachah. The Rema (EH 21:5) writes that some say that one should not practice in front of others matters of affection with one's wife, such as checking the head for lice. The source of this Halachah is the abovementioned Nimukei Yosef. It is clear that these commentaries understood according to the simple meaning that Sarah checked Avraham's head for lice.

Off the forum for now.
My Thread (Not for inspiration, but for random bits and pieces of my journey, as well as the inspiring responses of others: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/375514-Enough-is-Enough
jackthejewgye@gmail.com
There are tips, tools, and techniques, but there are no shortcuts.

Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet! ~ Groucho Marx
Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable.-Voltaire
You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.- Abraham Lincoln
If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.- Yogi Berra
"I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." ~ Calvin

Re: cold showers 06 Dec 2022 05:24 #389010

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Shalom Chevra, 
I Can't say I have SSA, I know of some people with the struggle, I hope that everyone with SSA will be able to tackle this challenge with cunning. My problem is Sexual fantasy and lust, I can imagine that I would be offended and have been offended by those without the addiction telling me to stop. The only way I will understand SSA is if I have it, I don't as of yet and I pray that I don't get it, and please pray for me too.
I can't tell you not to have SSA. I can tell you that if I say something about SSA to a person with it, it is automatically going to be tactless and potentially hurtful. 
Lastly
Please those with SSA excuse us who do not have SSA as what we say comes from ignorance.
All the very best!
Last Edit: 06 Dec 2022 05:26 by misgaber96.

Re: cold showers 06 Dec 2022 11:06 #389017

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What works for me is getting up very early in the morning and saying the birkot haShachar with intent.  Thank you, my Creator, for giving me strength and protecting me.  Then, black coffee, vigorous exercise, and plenty of time outdoors helps.  That's what works for me.

Re: cold showers 06 Dec 2022 15:14 #389035

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Misgaber96 wrote on 06 Dec 2022 05:24:
I can't tell you not to have SSA. I can tell you that if I say something about SSA to a person with it, it is automatically going to be tactless and potentially hurtful. 
Lastly
Please those with SSA excuse us who do not have SSA as what we say comes from ignorance.
All the very best!

 Misgaber96 for president!
I'm sick of the Un-scientific approach of today's medical and social environment. 
we will never heal and become a better society unless we realize that all people are addicts. Any thing we do that we aren't interested in is "addiction" and medicine doesn't fix addictions. 

Pain causes addiction and medicine cant fix pain. 

Unless we heal our pain, and become truama conscious so as not to cause others pain, we will never be living in a functioning human society.
Last Edit: 06 Dec 2022 15:15 by human being.

Re: cold showers 07 Dec 2022 10:38 #389083

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Accepting G-d's will on G-d's terms, rather than my own, is what works for me.

Re: cold showers 08 Dec 2022 11:09 #389153

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The fog in the pre-dawn morning is a reminder that HaShem loves his creation and provides for it, sometimes in ways that aren't apparent or obvious.  I can't see streams of water flowing through the grass, but the water is there.

Re: cold showers 09 Dec 2022 06:55 #389196

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cordnoy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 20:29:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 02 Dec 2022 18:28:

jackthejew wrote on 01 Dec 2022 19:42:

Teshuvahguy wrote on 01 Dec 2022 18:44:

turning.point wrote on 25 Nov 2022 19:38:
SSA was never really a problem for me.  I knew that I liked women from an early age, and my father taught me that SSA was wrong.  My mother is too compassionate towards people with an SSA problem, and unfortunately I learned to be too tolerant.  (Shortened quote to shorten the post)

Wow.  Just wow. “My mother was too compassionate toward the people with an SSA problem? And unfortunately, I learned to be too tolerant…” One more WOW! I have to say that a couple of statements in this post strike me as arrogant, condescending, and just plain insulting, and show a deeply overly simplistic understanding of people with SSA and their struggles. You seem like you want to think of yourself as a good Jew, so maybe you want to rethink some of these statements that are offensive to so many of your fellow Jews and brothers on GYE. I know I’d be ashamed to make such disparaging statements on a forum meant to be supportive to others. 
Hey, @turning.point…how about an acknowledgment that you were hurtful in disparaging an entire segment of people on this site speaking about things you have no knowledge of? 

IMHO there is a distinction to be made between sympathy, understanding, and not judging the many Ehrliche people struggling with SSA, as with all challenges in life, which is extremely important; and giving approval and/ or acceptance, tacit or otherwise to a public display of gay love for example. Judaism understands that the holiness of intimacy relegates it to the privacy of the bedroom, and outward expression of affection in public (D'vorim Shel Chiba) is Halachically prohibited even in a heterosexual relationship. SSA is not a choice, but Tznius about it is. I may be wrong, but personally the only context where the mother can be "too compassionate towards SSA" is where it is used as a teachable moment for a child/teen about tolerance, perhaps when passing a gay couple kissing on the street. In summary: if the original post intended "over-tolerance" in reference to public display of SSA, then it may be (partially) justified.

Really disappointed, @JacktheJew, that you chose to look for the narrowest and most far-fetched possible explanation to defend this hurtful post from @turning.point instead of offering support to me and anyone else who would be offended by the post. It was really shocking to me that no one supported me here. I reported the post to moderators and nothing was done. I saw that @turning.point was on this thread at the same time and chose to say nothing. This contributed to my feeling ostracized here for the SSA issue I have. I’m going to stop here before I say something I’ll genuinely regret. 

My apologies. I saw the original post, cringed, got upset, and eventually went further.
1. I have been extremely busy.
2. Main reason is I'm a loose moderator and always have been. People should say what's on their mind. Why should one get insulted from the text and opinions of some anonymous, pajama-clad, basement-dweller, missin'-teeth, foul-odored, pot-bellied, winston-smokin', soap-allergic freak? Who really gives a damn? And if someone does care, then go ahead and say somethin'! Yes, some folks are shy.
3. The posts from the previous generation were more playful, humorous and fun-lovin'.

Godspeed to all

Chaval al D'avdin..
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