I'm on my first clean streak since years (19 days so far); for years I wanted to get out of my miserable life of cheating and lying but it was just stronger than me. BH my wife caught me and both of us started a therapy and changing a few things in our current lifestyle to make it harder to fall.
I'm getting a lot of support from my wife and she came up with a few ideas.
I stopped taking my smartphone in the bedroom at night, I leave the office at an earlier hour, I call my wife if I'm being delayed (even it's only for 10-15 min)...
Obviously talking to Hashem and begging for His help is part of it; BH my davening has really changed lately. When you come to 'Refoenu' I believe it's the right time to ask Hashem to heal you and help you through another day. Don't forget you have the opportunity to ask everything you need from Hashem three times a day, make the best of it. Just take a little longer to think about what you say instead of just making sure you can cross off davening from your daily to-do list.

My wife introduced me to GYE which has also become part of my routine (not daily but I do read the chizuk emails, update my profile on the 90 day wall and when I have some time read/write on the forum).

Being a runner this helps me in different ways:
1.I'm able to set a goal and work towards it, step by step (in my case my initial goal is to make it through to the 90 days using milestones such as 1 week, 2 week, RH, YK...)
2.I also look at what I've accomplished so far and I really don't want to lose that (last week I set out to run 12KM but after 10KM I was tired, knowing I'd need to start from scratch again if I stopped I just forced myself through to the 12KM)
3.Running didn't come naturally to me, I was overweight for years and started exercising about 10 years ago. It took me some time to get used to it and then to appreciate its many benefits (better looking, better health...). Here it's the same thing I introduced all these changes and started appreciating life in a total different way. BH our marital has improved very positively in a very short period of time (although I wouldn't say that every day is easy, my wife is obviously still upset and I can't blame her, she's right).

At this point I hope to make it through the Yomim Toivim and then on to the 90 days.
I'd like to thank all of you and wish you a Shono Toivo. Don't despair, Hashem always loves us and wants to see us fight.
Mike

Thanks Mike,

Great tips. I have never reached 19 days yet. So I envy you. I am still looking for tricks to succeed. I loved your analogy to running. Just wondering does the lust ever hit you like log when twisting and turing in bed? If yes whats your secret to success?

One small pointer, there are some successful individuals on this site who disagree with "Hashem always loves us and wants to see us fight." They say hashem doesn't want you to fight, he just wants you to surrender to him. I tend to think he wants both. He wants us to fight the tavia. But he also wants us to realize that we can't do it alone and need him. I think the ultimate goal has to be that eventually its not a fight rather I do what I can and hashem does the rest. But I think till we reach the point of truely doing what we can its a fight. The pros may disagree on the notion that its ever a fight. However, I think we almost all agree that it can't be a prepetual fight because we eventually won't win that way.

Hi Waydown. I've read a few of your posts and I really connect with them. They sound so much like mine a while ago.

I don't enjoy debating theories any more. I only want to look at results.

My experience has been that fighting lust is still thinking about lust. I find that I only need to 'fight' it when I'm still thinking about it. Fighting doesn't seem to work for an addict like me.

If I'm lust-free then there's nothing to fight.

Look at this way. If I was an alcoholic and I tried to 'fight' my obsession to drink, while still sipping beer, how long do you think I could stay sober? A day? Two? 90?

Lust affects me in the same way as alcohol affects an alcoholic. If I get any in my system I can't fight it, certainly not for long. The only way is to not have any lust in my system at all.

BUT I also have an obsession for lust which means that life without lust feels unbearable. So I need to have lust.

I can't lust and I can't not lust.

That's quite a tricky spot to be in. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. It was when that reality hit me that I went to SA. I needed help.



Does Hashem want us to 'fight'? I see it as the same as the famous moshul:

A man lived in an area that experienced a flash flood. Climbing onto the roof he says "don't worry Hashem will save me."

A neighbour in an inflatable boat rows past. "Jump in" he cries to the man. "Don't worry Hashem will save me," he says.

A helicopter comes past and a soldier stretches out his hand to the man. "Don't worry Hashem will save me," he insists.

Some time later the unfortunate man drowns and meets his Maker.

"Why didn't you save me from the flood?" he asks.

"What do you mean I didn't save you?! I sent you a boat, I sent you a helicopter but you didn't accept My help," came the reply.



All I'm saying is, if you ever get tired of all this fighting, don't ignore the possibility that Hashem has already sent you His helicopter and it's hovering near your house waiting for you.

Thanks Watson and great reply.
I'll start with this line.

"My experience has been that fighting lust is still thinking about lust. I find that I only need to 'fight' it when I'm still thinking about it. Fighting doesn't seem to work for an addict like me."

You see I think fighting did help you. It was not your end result. But I think it has to come in two stages. First you fight. You build up technices, life patterns etc.. how to beat lust. You also realize thru fighting that you don't must have your lust. You can live without it. After all you may have lost some battles but look how many you won. And did you die when winning? No. So you earn that the impossible is attainable.I can actually go thru a day without lust. Now Step 2. You can't beat it. Now you check into SA. But i don't think yo would have done step 2 nor would you have been so sucessfull with step 2 without step 1.

Now perhaps lets talk practical?

1) I am laying in bed and all of a sudden I get a terrible misquiot bit like itch down below. Its almost a natrual itch. Now what? One who doesn't look at it as a fught does what? Is it not a good approach to take distractions to my room so that my mind doesn't wander in the way of lust?
2) Scenerio 2, You are stuck in some public place and a good looking couple comes in. They start doing stuff that are hotter than a live porn video? Now what. Say the buzz words powerless? Or say even though I'd love to watch them I must pick myself up, fight my nature and leave?


Bascilly, in theory how do you not fight lust when its facing you and you are an addict? Is SA the only answer? I mean I read the white book. Ok so I say I am powerless and I surrender. I said all the buzzwords. The itch hits me now what?

Watson,

One more pointer you write,

"If I'm lust-free then there's nothing to fight."

Can an addict be lust free? Or do you mean you are free of the obsession of the lust?

Oh and I know you wrote,

"I don't enjoy debating theories any more. I only want to look at results."

I truely need to learn how to tackle this. And so please don't look at this as theories. Rather its a discussion how to problem solve. (As a side not I am very opne about my struggles. So if anyone can tell me oh based on what you wrote here is what you should do as step 1, I would love that and be forever so grateful.)

Sorry if that was two things

Watson,

One more thing no pain no gain as stated below.

guardyoureyes.com/the-gye-program/the-30-principles/21-principles-for-the-struggle/item/principle-5

waydown wrote:


I was writing my own experience. My experience is that fighting did not help me. In fact my acting out just got worse and worse. That was my experience.

To answer point 2, powerless is not a buzz word. Saying it does absolutely nothing at all. Neither does saying abracadabra.

Surrender is not some magical thing that suddenly happens to people either. It's something that has to be done over and over again.

Unfortunately an online forum does not lend itself to a proper explanation of these concepts. That's what sponsors and meetings are for.

Half-measures avail nothing. One cannot half-work the program and expect half-results.

I recently learned how to swim. There I was standing in the shallow end thrashing my arms and not moving forward at all when my friend said I had to let go of my feet and kick. I couldn't do it. I was scared. So I carried on trying to learn how to move my arms just right, thinking that if I perfected that bit the rest would be easy. But no matter how much I moved my arms I could not swim until I let go absolutely and let my legs kick the water.

I understand the fear of not fighting. You feel that if you don't fight you'll relapse for sure.

Just like I was sure that if I let my feet go in the pool I would sink.

I really do understand where you're coming from. I'm coming from the same place. I fought my yetzer for many years. I posted here on GYE for 2 years with very little success. I resisted going to meetings very strongly for ages. Eventually I was defeated enough that I was out of options. I went to SA not because I wanted to, but because I had tried everything else.

By the way I didn't learn how to swim by posting on an online forum. I went with a real friend to a real swimming pool. Partly so he could show me in practice how he swam, and partly so I knew that even if I started to sink he could lift me out.

All I'm saying is by all means continue doing what you're doing, just please bear in mind that there is another way that has worked for many people. But that program cannot be worked from behind a computer. Not even if you try really really hard. It has to be worked in real life with real people.

waydown wrote:


Yes.

One day at a time.

Thanks Watson,

So firstly and most importantly, you suggest step 1 for me would be check into an SA program??

Secondly, Ok we can debate if fighting helped or not. At the end of the day I think without fighting you would not have checked into SA. Fighting defintely brought out in you the basic relazation that this is not a path to follow. Its also taught you that you won't die without lust. It gave you the courage to walk into SA.

Thirdly, here is my take on my own personal fighting. It defintley is not magic and I have slips. Its not enough to get rid of my obsession. However, I must state that;

1) I learned I won't die without lust. Had you told me two months ago, that you know you can fall asleep two weeks straight without masterbating, I would have said you are nuts. I need my lust dose every day. Now I say hey I can easily survive two weeks and you know what even a month and maybe even the full 90 days!!! So I learned I don't die without my lust.
2) The obessesion during the day is much less. I feel like I have more strehgnth to accomplish what needs to be done during the day. I feel like despite the fact that lust creeps up on me and attacks me at times its not at my side all day. Its not like every time I work I am rushing to complete it as soon as possible so that I cna grab another lust dose. Its kind of like once I don't embrace and fight the lust, the lust backs off me somewhat. As a side note I believe its scientific and hormonal too. The hardest times and highest itches occur the day after I masterbate. If I don't masterbate the itch and push is not on me so much.
3) Even when I slip or fall I fight. I say to myself I will not fall back into an endless pit. Partly because I need to concentrate during the day. Partly because I am less dug in it even after the fall. And partly because once I started fighting I realize that if I go back to my old ways what stops me from going all the way. If I fantsazied and flirted on-line with women (Yes one was an OTD jewish eshes ish) what stops me from one day doing the ultimate sin. If I commit that sin I will be ex-communicated on this world too. Do I want to be able to see my kids come running to me when I come home from work or shul and giving me a huge hug? or would I rather be ex-communicated from my kids while chasing after some girl that either her or me or both of us will get bored of after few times and she has no real interest in my well being other than se*. Its a scary thought and sorry if I elaborted a bit much. My main point is fighting helps me realize that a fall doesn't have to send me in a downward spiral.Of course every day I face the danger of a signficant setback where I fall right into the pit and can't brush it off.

I should add the half hearted measures like fighting just one aspect of lust won't help. At first I said lets fight porn and flirting but masterbation I leave for another time. No all of it has to stop in order for my machine to work properly.

This all leads me to believe that fighting in combination with feeling powerless and surrendering is whats needed. And its not a contradiction. But I am still learning so please teach me where I went wrong.

And most importantly so step 1 is?????????????

waydown wrote:


I don't know you. I have no idea if you're an addict or not. I couldn't possibly advise you. All I'm asking is that you keep an open mind.

waydown wrote:


Again, that was not my experience. I remember what happened.

I went to SA because I was utterly defeated by my addiction. I went when I realised that there was nothing more I could do, that all of my methods had failed.

"I went to SA because I was utterly defeated by my addiction. I went when I realised that there was nothing more I could do, that all of my methods had failed."

What made you realize that you were utterly defeated? Had you carried on your daily life as always you wouldn't care. (I don't know your averious so will just giev a mashal) If for years you go to a strip club after work and nver thought about changing why check into SA? If you just felt hey this is what I need and finshed why check into SA? But since you tried fighting and saw that you need more help you checked in. So although you lost your fights, you only saw the truth because you fought it at first.

Also I need calrity on this one. If I believe I am an addict then SA is the only approach? Is that a yes on that one??

I would have to dig it up. But according to GYE/ R Abraham J, he wrote somewhere that SA is not advisable for all. Only those who actually ahd affairs shoudl attend. Others should try other methods first.

Again I am soul searching and not knocking. And I respect that you had the courage to walk into SA. i just think sherlcok would tell watson that fighting is what got him to attend SA although it was not the end result.

I need to go to bed so this will have to be my last post. I'm happy to talk with you on the phone if you want, you can private message me.

All I have is my own experience. The very short version of my story is that I used to masturbate daily, often twice, with porn whenever I could get it which was mainly during bein hazmanim. I masturbated every day while in yeshiva and binged on porn during bein hazmanim. I tried hundreds of methods to stop or at least control myself a bit but nothing worked. This went on for years and years.

I tried many times to stop, using a different method each time, but could only stop for a few days maximum. At various key points in my life I thought things would get better but they never did. Not when I went to yeshiva, not when I went to Eretz Yisroel, not when I got married.

At some point I decided I really needed to stop. I fought with myself and tried everything I could think of to stop. This included, but was not limited to, cold showers when triggered, hitting myself, therapy, writing affirmations everywhere, crying over tehillim, tikkun chatzos and many other things. Sometimes I stayed sober for a few days or even a couple of weeks but I could never stay sober.

Then I joined GYE and used the tools here and read the books. I even joined the 12 step calls. I could stay sober about a month at a time before relapsing every time (I'm not knocking GYE or the calls, they work for some people, just not for me). SA was suggested to me but I argued strongly against it. I thought I didn't need it, I was making progress. Eventually I stopped arguing with it and just said that it wasn't for me.

At some point I relapsed and couldn't stop at all. I went back to masturbating a few times a week. This lasted a few months but I would not join SA. I thought I just needed to get the ball rolling again and I would be fine. At long last I managed to stay sober again for a while. Then I relapsed around day 10 and I was finally broken. I didn't think there was any more I could do. I surrendered. I called a GYE member who was also in SA and the next day I went to my first meeting.

I wish I could say it was all easy from then. It wasn't, I had ups and down in SA too, especially in the beginning. But things have got a lot better since then and b"H things have been immeasurably better since I joined. I'm extremely grateful for it.

My dear Watson, your honesty and courage is inspiring. Thanks for sharing. May Hashem give you and your family a Ksiva V'chasima Tova.

Mr waydown,
Don't think of what you can ask Watson on his words....just read them and let them sink in. If tomorrow you don't understand then ask then.

If I may suggest a bit of Torah reading which gave me a chizuk: look for 'Torah Wellspring' from Rabbi Elimelech Biderman on parshas Ki Setzei.
It speaks about the battle with the YH (in general terms, not related to addictions).

Personally I'm still a bit puzzled when I read about being totally powerless; it gives me the -false?- impression that I just have to put my faith in Hashem and everything will come into place without me doing anything.
Naturally I understand and agree that without Hashem's help I wouldn't be anywhere but I have to make some effort too. In that case only Hashem will help me (Habo letaher, messayin oiso).
I know that I couldn't get out of my situation without Hashem jumpstarting the process (many times I wanted to get out but wasn't strong enough) but He expects me to do my part of the effort. It's a joint effort, without Hashem there's no way to overpower the YH.