hi

welcome.

I hear your concern about the addiction, the p*rn, the m* and the 12-steps.
all valid.

let me ask you a question...
do you know how to ride a bicycle?

can you imagine how hard it would be to UNLEARN how to ride a bicycle ??

pretty hard, right.
why - because the brain has wired all the cells in your body to work together - so that you can ride a bike.

so what happens when you fill your brain with p*rn, or m*...
the brain (which cannot tell the difference between the real act - and the fake stuff), sends a message to your body you learn a new habit.

you learn:

- to connect with everything and anything BUT your spouse
- to run away from pain, and seek momentary "pleasure"

but guess what?

the thrills wear off...
then you'll need more thrills

more excitement, to get the brain to release its pleasure chemicals...

then the "fun" becomes addictive, becomes habitual... and as much as you might want to stop.. the brain will fight you... and resist. Like UNLEARNING how to ride a bike.

hang in there.
this is a great support community.

post.
read. post.

join one of the phone groups.

post again.

make some friends.

smile!
it helps to scare the Y"H away!

dov.in.israel (aka. Dov.ii )

thank you "o" for an analogy I can relate to.  The problem with me is that by the time my yetzer hara overcomes me it is always in a position of weakness when there are no blocks or obsticles that cant be overcome. He seems to be waiting for the right time and then he comes out to pounce. damn him. what you say about adding filters and public places and the such I have tried for over two years and have not seen any advantage to me by doing so.

about what you said "There is no convincing logical argument that can stop a person from stumbling to spam just because it makes sense to do (although I think you've figured that out by now )." I am looking for a way to have a joint internal feeling and logical reasoning to help me out. The 12 steps dont seem to work out for me.

DOVinisrael you mention the problem of " to connect with everything and anything BUT your spouse" does not affect me Thank god but you second statement of  "to run away from pain, and seek momentary "pleasure"" is right on.  for me the thrills wear off but thats fine because all my yetzer hara is looking for is the moment of relaxation. this satisfies me until my next stressful situation. I do not have the need for more excitement, to get the brain to release its pleasure chemicals.

Gadraim aren't necessarily limited to you computer. I'll let Will.I.Am Dov.in.il explain more, but there is a certain logical cycle from that first subconscious thought until the final slip. And while coming out and saying "Dont, its an averah" doesnt necessarily help fight that cycle, understanding the cycle can be VERY helpful. The basic theory (in a nutshell) is that there is a physical/biological process to which that we react (i.e. slip) in the ways that we do.

Let me make this really simple in a way that you can understand. WARNING: TECHNICAL JARGON AHEAD! If that triggers you, stop reading now!  ;D

---

The reaction is an execution. Knowing what the reaction is, we have a breakpoint set. Running in a debugger (GYE), we can see the command executed/ method/object called right before the breakpoint (trigger). Just comment out the trigger, and your way ahead of the game! pwned! (oh wait, your not l33t ;P). Obviously, you may at times need the method call there and cant comment it out. Thats ok, instead lets examine the method and see if we can modify it so that it returns something slightly different (preventing the trigger).

Many events in life have callbacks attached to them (again, see: HALT). Its inevitable. Thats why OO rocks - you can override the default methods with methods of your own - preventing the trigger from being triggered in the first place!

---

The point is that there is no foolproof way of stoping other than a lot of hard work. Phsyco-analyzing ourself is a part of human development (and fighting the Yetzor Horah in all areas). By looking at ourself under a microscope and trying to figure out where we went wrong, we can finding the point that needs to be "fixed".

With time, you will be able to separate the pre-YH (i.e. the one that triggers to slip) from the post-YH (the one that wants you to be feel helpless/depressed/terrible/guilty/unworthy/suicidal) by seeing the cause and affect of the pattern. Breaking down the issue will also make it easier to fight in smaller pieces. For example, even if one should fall, the faster they can get past the postYH, the faster they can brush themselves off and start fighting again!

Chasidim zogen (chasidim say): While depression isnt an avera per se, the state that depression can bring you too, even the worst averos vant bring you to! I heard in the of R' M Solomn, regarding spam: more than the YH wants you to slip, he wants the depression that follows. Even if you slip, dont reward the YH by giving hm what he wants!

lie lie and lie some more Fight, fight and fight some more!

O

well said o

since you brought up depression I will mention that I have noticed the depression that follows and because of such I force myself to forget about the action done. in the  short-term this helps me achieve the renewed strength to overcome my yetzer. but in the long-term I cant help but think back to the amount of time tried and failed and I get pushed into a false sense of inability.

so lets get to my current state. I am now feeling fine without a push from my taava. in a state of emotional bliss. Hopefully to stay this way untill the end of my life, but as past experience has taught me I  will probably fail (hopefully not). but as you state my objective is to help me realize what are the triggers in my life that can be commented out and in case they cant what other nondestructive methods can be called upon?

so in short i want to hack, hack and |-|/-\<|< my life some more! (white hat style - no damage!)

ineedhelp wrote on 07 Mar 2011 12:54:


OK, now for the good news: you will fail. And the better news: it proves that your a tzadik! Sheva yipol tzadik v'com. Not to say that you MUST fall per se, but our mindset needs to be that we will fail - unless we fight really, really heard.

SECURITY BY OBSCURITY IS NISHT KEIN SECURITY AT ALL! If we dont summon every single ounce of strength to the battle, plain on failure! Have a backup plan. And a backup backup plan. And a disaster recovery plan. Practice them often.

Only you can translate these parables to real life. Lev Yodeah Meoras Nafsho, and only you can decide what will ultimately work for you. You can look around here for chizuk and ideas, and then you need to implement them.

Dude, if there was an app that can hack/circumvent these issues, it would have been up on source forge GitHub ages ago! There is no easy way out. No. Easy. Way. Out.

Perhaps an accountability partner can help? Support groups? SA? Anonymous (no, not that one) phone conference?

Stay happy & keep on smiling. Take pride in the little steps in life. Always keep an eye out for the positive. And most important, remember that YOU CANNOT WIN! Elimoyla HKBH ozer lo, eino yachol lo - we cant possibly fight the YH without Hashems help. Dont forget to reach out and ask hashem for help. Ask Hashem during shame kolanu. Talk to him in your native language anytime you feel you need him. He is waiting to help, all you need to do is ask.


O

I'm way past sheva that is why I hope for an ability to not fail or not fail as hard . Failure is measurable.