Eye.nonymous wrote on 21 Jul 2011 08:53:



Eye, you talk for ALL of us!!! [Just look at how many views this thread gets!!!]


Dov is teaching all of us with his wise & experienced words!


Laag is also talking for all of us (or at least, for me), I often have the thoughts that he posts. (Although he does put it a bit more 'eloquently.')  ;D

Eye.nonymous wrote on 21 Jul 2011 08:53:

Ditto.
Step 3 -Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him

Maybe your giving too much reliance on Dov.  I know their names are similar but Dov and God are not the same.

מגיד דבריו ליעקב
סופי תיבות דו"ב

Stuart wrote on 21 Jul 2011 15:22:


They are both a Higher Power....


(i.e. a power greater than myself!

stuart
לעולם אל תאמר דבר שאי אפשר לשמוע שסופו לישמע
why do i have to loock in the ברטנורא whats pshat? i have the mishna any way, no?inst it enough?
well, but when u loock in bartenura you will find 2 pshatim, one of them is "dont say rubish" look it up and youll find this pshat in bartenura with the shprach of the bartenura.....

dov is the bartenura of the 12 steps.... if u can also do it i will thank you.... i will have bartenura-dov, and tosfot stuart.

DOV IM WAITING  :-*

Nothing wrong with extra pshating, but it sounds like your going straight to the english side of the Artscroll before even attempting the gemara.

its not extra pshating

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 21 Jul 2011 15:25:


Stuart knows me better than you do, YosefhaTzaddik, trust me. So believe him.

Besides, I can't be a power greater than anyone here, simply because I cannot keep myself sober. So how could I possibly keep anyone else sober? Now, my G-d....there you can have a Power Greater than oneself. Choose my G-d, if you want to. It takes nothing away from me.

My G-d is everywhere, so He knows it all; He made everything, so He can do anything that needs to get done for me or anyone; He needs nothing, so it makes no sense at all that I have ever hurt Him - therefore there is no need for Him to ever truly hate me; He is permanent, so He has lots of patience - time doesn't even matter to Him; He created all beauty and sweetness, so I do not really need the sweetness of women's body parts and porn, for He made it all and must have it all in Himself...and a few other things. He is really nifty, you know, pardon the figure of speech.

It makes a lot more sense talking about my G-d in this way than by just saying "Hashem". Especially since Hashem is also the One who we fear has maybe hated us all along, who we feel has shortchanged us for so long, who we feel makes us guilty and bad by all His desires and rules that just do not seem to work for us.

Please. 'Getting frum' cannot possibly be the first priority for recovering addicts. It needs to come second. Derech eretz kodmah laTorah. First comes being a mentch. Hashem is for mentchen! Flipflops and liars just have no foothold in his company.

Sure, He lets us in - otherwise how did the first addict ever get sober to begin with?! But the honesty and openness has to flow if we are to use Him. And Hashem wants to be used. That's what it means when we say v'Dodi li. He is for us! He wants us to be for Him, and Him to be 'for us'.

And that comes before being frum, as all the addicts in the world have discovered in AA, SA, NA, etc...

Rabim mach'ovim larosho - v'haboteyach baShem, Chessed yisovevenhu. Afilu Rosho uboteyach baShem - Chessed yisovevenhu, Chaza"l say.

That is how we start recovery, I think. And it naturally leads to a good relationship with Hashem and a full, beautiful yiddishkeit. That may take some time for some and the ride may have bumps. But what is  real G-d for? No bumps? Only in the midbar did He remove all the bumps for us - and we did not do very well there! Maybe we need more bumps?


 

no bumps, just straight road ahead, tell me what to do

(dov i dont know if this is something u can help me, and if it has anythin to do with the 12 steps, maybe i just need a doctor or even better a variety of woman next to me to fulfill my wishes: (sorry if i am to graphic (a word i learnt here....))
i am watching now a good movie but i cant enjoy it cause i fell between my legs something.... its funny i dont feel i have lungs, but i fell i have laagele vokelesl..... he is there and asking please gimme something, its unbelieveble i dont even have a קישוי האבר i just have plain a feeling like i dont know like i am been pulled down between my legs... and he is only gonna calm down you know when....
any way i calmed down now by talking to you.... back to the movie now.)

Give up the movie, dummy.

The First step doesn't start until we give up our right to use our movies and porn and lust games for today. It is not a game, like "give it up for today, fool yourself that it's just for one day - and then, tomorrow, we'll play again!! Haha! the YH is so stupid, isn't he?!" No, that is not the way, at all.

There really is only today for us. That's just the truth. You can give up your right to use porn today - at least for right now. If you admit you lost to lost - you are a loser to lust. Your lust beat you. Like it beat me and will always beat me - if I try to use it. It's an 18-wheeler that I simply cannot control, but I like the power! Sorry, game over. I can't drive such a thing. Leave it to all the other people out there who can. I am just too sick to enjoy it.

That's the way I am talking about.

And nothing makes all those admissions real in me, as when I do that b'fumbee - with other safe people. Find someone to say this stuff to. OK, so you are still scared about a group - so find someone you can talk to on the phone and say the truth to: "I, Farfel-Shrageh (I guessed you name?) cannot control and enjoy lust - it wins and drives me all over the place and I get in accidents. I am a lust addict. I lost the game with lust. Since I am powerless to control and enjoy lust (I do not have the power), I am asking you to help me admit that to myself and give up the opportunity to use lust today and act out. Thank you!! Let me give you a hug!"

OK, you can forget about the hug.

But make the call, and make it a habit every day, if you can.

That's putting your first step into action. Later we can put the second step into action be"H.

dov come on, its very very poshut to admit and know that i MY SELF cant fight this lust also by torah mattters and also by 12 steps matters.
nothing can get clearer than this.
any aveira in the world אלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו אינו יכול לו so כל שכן by this taavah of znus that also by torah aproach and also by 12 steps its really really  קרוב לאונס so please believe me when i tell you, this is not enouh a good reason for to say to any one my name and my sickness....

its funny but you really dont seem to understand my aproach, you incline to believe that the more ill be here with you, i increase the chances to go to a sa group.
and its exactly all the way around, as healthier ill get more ill wanna stay with my life AND WITH MY IMAGE

any way dov to make things clear all i said till here is: "dov i KNOW i CANT do it by my self"

Now to the movies subject and even porn issue.

i know i am lost with it, but i am lost wthout it too, i know i have no control on it, but dov, are u gonna be as rough as the torah "YOU MAY NOT WATCH MOVIES" come on!

i am here with you hoping we can find a way without taking me away the regular movies.
please dov, if u are as extreem as the jews, why do i need your עבודה זרה.... ill go to the original and in other words stay the same bastad and masturbating to this shiksas (eventually....)

next issue:
12 steps ask for filters?
cause i think they dont.... they are capable to help me even i have a option of xxx

dont get me wrong, i would love to not need the movies, but i just cant give it up, i just dont have NOTHING NOTHING in this world that can entretain me, it sounds silly and it also is silly, but those are the facts.
you see whats going on? i see my self eazier gving up on porn than on movies, my problem is only that movies are triggers....

i must say my piece.i know it feels you have nothing else, and right now, you don't.but give up the movies ANYWAY, and be empty for a while - it will hurt - you must make the transition some time.and the transition period is emptiness.you will go through emptiness for x amt of time, depending on how bad your addiction is.after the period of emptiness, you will begin to feel REAL pleasure, not fake pleasure.the good news is you don't have to do it alone.because of the mesiras nefesh of r' guard, you now have the option of posting here and getting help with those feelings of emptiness.if you dont start now, the decision to change will become harder, and harder, and harder, and harder,etc,etc,etc.
jack

ill tell you jack, i intend to believe u that with time its gonna be good.
but how much time?
i mean , come on!
i have a mixture of problems: 1) porn. 2) films.
those two things are saving me also from my addiction and also from not been bored.
in other words.
i need those two things not to be bored, those two things i do around 4 till 6 hs a day, now those two things addiction and boredom are gonna atack me 4 to 6 hs a day, each day for how long?
do u have the smallest doubt i can manage? really?
what am i from the KGB that i can suffer so much and not brake down?
this is crazy. its a laag and a keles to try to fight it at all.

there must be a way.

by the way the biggest problem is; that i am calm the all day cause i know ill not be bored when ill go home. the secound i know, that when i come home ill get bored and frustrated, i get very nervous and frustrated the all day and i cant concentrate at what i have too...

i basicly give up if dov tells me "taugh luck" or u jump or u die.
ד' ירחם

i'll tell you what i did - i called somebody that i 'met' on this forum who was willing to listen to me.and i cried and i cried, and i hit my bed with a tennis racket,and i went crazy for 90 days, and i called him again, and he was there for me, he was always there for me.remember, the longer you put it off, the HARDER it becomes.let me repeat that: the longer you put it off, the HARDER it becomes.so do you want to do it now, or do you want to wait, and let it bedcome harder? this is serious stuff - i'm not joking around.or, you can decide to stay this way forever, never heal, and it will get worse, and worse, and worse.but by the fact that you're even on this forum tells me that you want to heal.so what will it be? the choice is yours - we all care about you here - every single person here.