Me3 wrote on 24 May 2011 15:09:


gggggggg

any way so whats up guys? huh? struggling? huh? very hard? oohhh, i know i know, keep it up!

(im sorry i wanted to wright something and thats what came, lets see what u wright now....  ;D)

hi Laag,
how was your day?

hey zemmi, my day? i managed to push it through, it finished by the end

a rebbi in yeshiva once said:
how come yeshiva bochurim are often tired? all they do is sit all day.
the reason is because they push the day through, and it's very hard to push time...

oh yea!

i wanna know one thing:
is every body in this forum here only because he heated the rock bottom? every body who is here its because of צרות that he wanted them to stop?
is no boddy here even with no tzarot just because he knew its wrong?
and if there is here someone that is here only because he knows porn is wrong, is that enough a reason to stop such "wonderfool" thing? tell me why

laagvokeles wrote on 15 Dec 2010 16:18:


Hello there!

I'm bored of talking about masturbation and porography.  You seem like a fun guy for a chat about stuff - you seem intelligent and learned.  What do you do for fun and entertainment generally speaking?  Do you go on holidays?  Do you have any hobbies or pastimes?

What are you learning at the moment?

I enjoy online games, reading, writing and travel.  Like you I'm over 30, married with more than 2 kids.  I do not learn as much as I should.  Writing that makes me feel bad - I think I'll change that this week.


Jester.

laagvokeles wrote on 25 May 2011 07:45:


B"H  I don't have tzaros. I am not waiting for them either. I do believe that Hashem controls the world every minute and thing that happens is with the rachmonus of hashem. Can i look myself in the face knowing i am doing things that Hashem hates and continue just like that? No way, i cant.

Do i believe i can continue my Beautiful life if i continued with this junk? no. I know and you know if my wife, father, mother inlaw, rov, chaveirim found what i was doing my beautiful life will be OVER. yes OVER!

Do you really think you question makes scene -  why stop? Would you take a gun and put it to you head and shoot it if you knew there was only one bullet in it? It's only 1/6 chance that you will be shot, so why not?  If you stop and think about your life and world how amazing hashem is being to YOU. And how easy it is for every thing to go flush down the toilet and have a miserable life all within 5 minutes of being caught i dont think you would ask that question again, why change?

Laag- you can PM me in  you want to talk.. I think i can relate to your situation - but i think your in a shnei ksuvim hamachishim zeh es zeh and you need a shlishi vyachria b'neiham.

Please dont play games- sit down and think for five minutes about it before you reply.

heuni memass wrote on 25 May 2011 14:33:


Laag just in case you were scared that you weren't being fed the torahdig way, I've quoted the following in full.  Thanks Heuni for that important point.

והנח ירמיהו היה מתאונן על רוע בני דורו מפני היותם ננועים בנגע המדה הזאת שהיו מעלימים עיניהם ממעשיהם בלי
שישימו לב לראות מה הם הלהעשות אם להעזב. ואמר עליהם
ירמיהו ח] אין איש נחם על רעתו
לאמר מה עשיתי כלה שב
במרוצתם כסוס שוטף במלחמה. והיינו שהיו רודפים והולכים
במרוצת הרגלם ודרכיהם מבלי שיניחו זמן לעצמם לדקדק
על המעשים והדרכים ונמצא שהם נופלים ברעה בלי ראות
אותה. ואולם הנה זאת באמת אחת מתחבולות היצה״ר
וערמתו להכביד עבודתו בתמידות על לבות בני האדם עד
שלא ישאר להם ריוח להתבונן ולהסתכל באיזה דרך הס
הולכים. כי יודע הוא שאלולי היו שמים לבם כמעט קט על
דרכיהם ודאי שמיד היו מתחילים להנחם ממעשיהם, והיתה
החרטה הולכת ומתגברת בהם עד שהיו עוזבים החטא לגמרי.
וה״ז מעין עצת פרעה הרשע שאמר (שמות ה) תכבד העבודה
על האגשים וגו, שהיה מתכוין שלא [לבד שלא] להניח להם
ריוח כלל לבל יתנו לב או ישימו עצה נגדו. אלא היה
משתדל להפריע לבם מכל התבוננות בכח התמדת העבודה הבלתי מפסקת. כן היא עצת היצה׳׳ר ממש על בני האדם
כי איש מלחמה הוא ומלומד בערמימות. ואי אפשר להמלט
ממנו אלא בחכמה רבה והשקפה גדולה. הוא מה שהנביא
צוח ואמר (חגי א) שימו לבבכם על דרכיכם. ושלמה אמר
בחכמתו(משלי ו) אל תתן שנה לעיניך ותנומה לעפעפיך הנצל
כצבי מיד וכו'. וחז״ל אמרו [מ״ק דף י.) כל השם אורחותיו בעולם
הזה זוכה ורואה בישועתו של הקב׳׳ה. [b]ופשוט הוא שאפילו
אם יפקח האדם על עצמו אין בכחו להנצל אלולי הקב״ה
עוזרו.[/b] כי היצה״ר תקיף מאד וכמאמר הכתוב (תחלים א
צופה רשע לצדיק ומבקש להמיתו ה' לא יעזבנו בידו. אך
אם האדם מפקח על עצמו אז הקב״ה עוזרו וניצול מן היצה״ר.
אבל אם אינו מפקח הוא על עצמו ודאי שהקב״ה לא יפקח
עליו כי אם הוא אינו חס מי יחוס עליו. והוא כענין מה
שאמרו ז״ל (ברכות דף לג) כל מי שאין בו דעה אסור לרחם עליו,
והוא מה שאמרו (אבית פ״ג) אם אין אני לי מי לי

So the first step is stopping for a few minutes and thinking about the idiocy of our lives.  And if you (we) stop and think about it you (we) would see just how idiotic is the life (you) we are living and how you (we) have to stop.  The way to do it (the second step)(Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity) is right there as well.  Hashem can and will help us.  But like the Mesilas Yeshurim says you have to take the first step and be willing to do what it takes to change.  If not אסור לרחם עליו.  Coming here without any willingness to give up anything that we've been doing in the past is simply putting ourselves in the position of אסור לרחם עליו

heuni memass wrote on 25 May 2011 14:33:


Actually, it is an excellent question, in my opinion.  The "simple" answer is easy enough - "because it is wrong", and because "on some intangible spiritual level, I kind of believe that it is doing some damage...  Sort of".  There are a whole lot of concepts that our dear OP struggles with, and fails to internalize.




You know, some people do.  Because it thrills them.  It doesn't thrill most people however, so it's used as an example for crazy behavior.  But to a person in the moment...  How many of us (rhetorical question, please don't answer) out here have put ourselves in danger of acquiring a communicable disease for the sake of lust?  Is this not the same as Russian Roulette?

I agree with you, heuni memass that is is destructive, crazy and irrational behavior.  That doesn't stop all of us, though.  Does it?

Nevertheless, a better question (because "why stop" is a bit bland) is "why should I stop".  Our OP points out that his life is "just fine" from his point of view, other than the issur aspect.  I know plenty of ostensibly sane and rational people who will argue that cheeseburgers taste good, and the fact that it is polluting their body and soul is not enough of a reason to stop.  Much like overeaters, alcoholics and people engaging in unprotected sex.

The interesting thing about our OP is that he fully believes that it is wrong, but still cannot stop.  He "wants to want" to stop, which is (effectively) a "cannot".  And let's be honest here - there is a massive feel-good factor at play.  Why else would there be a temptation?

Most people here say "pornography is disgusting, and I hate myself for pursuing it".  Laagvokeles simply doesn't feel, or admit to feeling, that.  He says "here is something I love doing, that feels good, that is simply assur.  Is "assur" enough in and of itself to stop?"

Someone like this is almost playing "chicken" with Hashem, building a temporary fortress of sand on the beach in low tide, daring it to come in.  Not for the thrill, but rather from desperation.  Can you know how hard it is to "want to want"?  To see yourself from outside of a translucent bubble, and not even be able to relate fully to your own situation (let alone family)?  That's why a person distances and intellectualizes, and asks for "rational reasons".  That's why he's here

Therefore, I think I'll stop discussing any big issues with him, and get to know him outside of discussing the pros and cons of pornography and masturbation.  Because that has been thrashed to bits in this thread.

Jester -well said.

My point was yes you have a good life but see how this is destructive, crazy and irrational behavior.  That doesn't stop all of us, but it is a reason to stop. Is that enough to get us to stop? maybe and maybe not. But to say why would i stop if i am enjoying it? the simple answer is - you are playing with all the good in your life.

And that's not hard to see...... If we are actually willing to think about it for 5 minutes.

TheJester wrote on 25 May 2011 16:23:


dont say that! the only thing i can talk about is about porn, what allse can we talk about?

about what i like to do in my free time,well: films, music, games (i dont have enough internet for multiplayer so i its kinda boting.

but the only thing that i can do always (music i enjoy 20 or 30 min max, or while im washing dishes even 2 hs...) is a good movie, and im very upset casue its hard for me to find a movie i didnt see... i have to hope i forget it so i can enjoy it again.
אליה וקוץ בה
that movies even if they are "clean" they are splened triggers....
so tell me, what can i do?

and its true, i said a halfe year ago (u mencioned my post above) that this is my problem, and still is.

so im here hoping someone will one day say a magic sentence a magic word and give me the first push to sacrifice my only joy in this world wich are the films.
heuni memass wrote on 25 May 2011 17:37:

liscen to cross the street its dangerous, we can die, but we cross right? how do we cross? we are carefool....
believe me im porning my life away carefoully...
all this ppl who got caught crossed the street on a red light, i dont do that

laagvokeles wrote on 25 May 2011 17:47:



Famous last words:  "Me.  I'm careful.  I'll never get caught."  LOL. 

oy. ma noimar, mah nedaber, mah nitztaduk

I feel for you!

Please please .... i beg from you think NOW because YOU will not get a second chance....  It's people that think like you are the one that get caught.