ben durdayah wrote on 19 May 2011 22:47:


the 12 steps are a very important thing and it helps ppl to be close to hashem.

part of the 12 steps is to speack to many ppl by the meetings, and לעג וקלס בן בושה וחרפה dosnt aprove it (and when ppl have a shabat together with theyr wives רח"ל) BUT I COULD BE TOTALY WRONG

ben durdayah wrote on 19 May 2011 22:47:


porn and many others in my list that i try again and again and again and i dont manage, i confess that i am hard broken and i am לעג וקלס in my eyes be cause of this

and i envy you that u  are so ahead already
ur-a-jew wrote on 19 May 2011 22:47:

the meassures are
filter
dont look on the street
what allse? oh 12 steps... could be your right

Moiradiggg!

I'm assuming that you already have a filter and are trying not to look at the women in the street?

Great!

You're actually starting on your way...

Maybe you'll consider the third measure as well!

E

what can i do i am missing this little little little detail: actualy doing all that
daven for me (i would hate to start only on elul, it would mean that i was a all year fornicating!
and its not good that i read  רבי צבי מאיר זילבערבערג sefarim, cause he finds a solution even for someone who wakes up a minut before motze yom kipur....(who ever knows his sefarim would probably smile now...)  )

The problem with tying step one to charatah is that it turns the issue into a religious issue, when its much more than that. Yes its wrong. But even if it wasn't I should stop doing it because its wrecking my life, affecting my relationship with my wife and kids and my job.  When we make it into a religious issue my incentive to stop is dependent on my level of emunah for the day. I am stopping because my life is unmanageable in every aspect. When I learn how to stop and start learning how to live life (the steps are a way to do this) I will develop a relationship with Hashem that will 1) provide me a framework to stop my past conduct and 2) allow me to see how bad my earlier conduct was thereby enabling me to do true teshuva.

A filter and not looking at woman on the street (whatever that means) is great but for someone in your position is hardly enough.  After all filters are not foolproof and don't prevent a host of other activities you've done in the past. Have you read the GYE handbook yet (in English or Yiddish) how about starting with that and seeing what changes in attitude you can make. Continued hatzlacha.

ur-a-jew wrote on 19 May 2011 23:39:


As rumor has it, someone just put up the money for the GYE handbook to be translated also in Klingon.

GYE goes intergallactic!  Be-di-be-di-be-di-bi-di!

FYI, this is one of the things Guard means by saying "taking this to a new level."

--Eye.

ur-a-jew wrote on 19 May 2011 23:39:


ill try do do it even the only things that i read even they are long is stories and gemara, ill make a exeption...

but out of curiosity let me ask you; the main problem is when u get a lust atack and u wait 2 min hoping its gonna be gonne, but it aint gone... so whats the practical idea in such case?
maybe i know: היסח הדעת, making our self bussey with something...
is there any other idea?

Eye.nonymous wrote on 20 May 2011 06:27:

i heard it from silvester stalone

Laag there is no short answer to your question. Its probably best discussed through a dialogue. Do you use google chat?  PM me. But i'll answer you with a moshol. I assume you are learning in Yeshiva and have had to give a chabura. What happens when you wake up two minutes before you supposed to give it that you have to prepare for it. You can't do that. Instead you have to start preparing way before. Its the same with lust. If you start fighting the battle when you get the lust attack you're going to have a very hard time doing it. So the first thing to keep in mind is that the real work comes before the lust attack.

I'm doing this in two posts because I know you prefer shorter posts. Let's go back to our moshol. Let's say the rosh kollel thinks you've been learning and preparing. You've however been out doing other things. Now its 1/2 hour before you're supposed to do it and as good a learner as you are its impossible to prepare a chabura in that short period. What are you're options. Well the one being that could certainly help you is Hashem. He can certainly put in your mind the chiddush you need. You may question why he would do it but you'll admit its certainly an option. Another option would be to go to someone else and ask him to help you prepare something. It may be embarrassing on your part but it certainly beats the alternative of going at it alone and making a complete fool of yourself. The point is that the solution to the problem is usually seeking out the help of another. Rarely will trying to do it alone be the answer. The same is true with respect to your lust problem.  If you want to talk more concrete PM me. 

ur-a-jew wrote on 20 May 2011 13:31:

loved it and true
[if wanting to put it down למעשה, it would probably mean to learn musar avoid exposure etc,]

ur-a-jew wrote on 20 May 2011 13:33:


i dont agree in אמת i just agree in the practical way and in my private מצב

על פי אמת  i think it should be fine by my self too, even with no friend.
למעשה im in such bad shape that i need for my רגש a friend to talk to (one! no sa meetings!)
and it could help me a lot, (i am not sure if its enough hes understanding to porn etc, or he also has to be a type of a addict in rehab, i somehow think that the best would be if he understands but he him self is not.... but could be there is no diffrence  תיקו :D             

תכלית:
i have no friend where i live who i can talk too, by phone its stupid.
so i just need to manage with what there is....

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:


Mussar probably can't hurt, but it also does not appear to have been the solution in the past so I would think you need something more.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:


The Chinuch in last week's parsha I would say disagrees with you.  The chinich is discussing the mitzvah of tekias shofer on Yom Kippur on Yovel. 

משרשי המצוה לפי שידוע כי קול השופר תעודד לב בני אדם אם לשלום ואם
למלחמה, וענין שלוח העבד שעבד את אדוניו זמן ר ב הוא קשה מאד בעיני
אדוניו, על כן לעורר לב הבריות על הענין ולחזק נפשם ולהזהירם על המצוה
בשומעם את קול השופר בראותם כי דבר השוה הוא בכל הארץ ושהכל עושים
כן נצטוינו על זה שאין דבר שיחזק לבות בני אדם כמו מעשה הרבים, וכמאמר
החכם צער רבים נחמה

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:


Fortunately, you don't have to wait for תשבי.  You want to be a little more prepared for him when he comes.  Instead you can look to the people that have had serious recovery and and see what they think is better.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:

שקר - I don't care where you live, there is someone on this site that you can meet and talk with.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:

שקר - Have you ever tried it that you are dismissing it?  It works for hundreds of people.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 13:48:

And there is a lot if you are willing.  Have a wonderful Shabbos.

The letters in "sheker" have only one leg to stand on...so they keep "falling".

i have a lot what to say... but your point is clear (i desagree in a few things, but the סך הכל is clear)
daven for me

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 14:45:


I'd love to hear it all but don't let those things distract you from what needs to be done.

laagvokeles wrote on 20 May 2011 14:45:


I do already.  Daven for yourself as well (and for me).

ur-a-jew wrote on 20 May 2011 15:12:


i am cholek with you in part of the מהלך, not on the מסקנא, if i would desagree with u in the maskana, i would discust it with you, but since this is not gemara and ur point is clear and true, i wouldnt discust with you about the שקלא וטריא about the מהלך how u get to your conclusion
  the conclusion is good? everething good.