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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 17:58 #106379

  • ben durdayah
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Actually, stopping is the first step in teshuvah -Azivas HaCheit!
For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 19:02 #106384

  • ur-a-jew
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ben durdayah wrote on 19 May 2011 17:58:
Actually, stopping is the first step in teshuvah -Azivas HaCheit!


I know, but the problem with viewing it in that way, is that we then mistake the times when we are overcome with guilt and stop looking at porn (for some limited amount of time, until we forget about the guilt) as actually having done teshuva, when in reality it really has little to do with teshuva.
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 19:31 #106388

  • laagvokeles
ur-a-jew wrote on 19 May 2011 19:02:

ben durdayah wrote on 19 May 2011 17:58:
Actually, stopping is the first step in teshuvah -Azivas HaCheit!


I know, but the problem with viewing it in that way, is that we then mistake the times when we are overcome with guilt and stop looking at porn (for some limited amount of time, until we forget about the guilt) as actually having done teshuva, when in reality it really has little to do with teshuva.


why do u think its not teshuva?
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 19:40 #106389

  • ZemirosShabbos
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if someone eats until he is stuffed and cannot possibly think of eating any more right now, do we say he is now fasting?

after we view the porn or act out we are overcome with guilt. sometimes that guilt will stop us from doing anything bad for an hour, a day, a week or more (or less). the trick is to abstain from acting out when we feel we want/need it most, not when we are repulsed by it because of guilt.

thank you UAJ for bringing out this idea.
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 19:43 #106390

  • laagvokeles
a tshuva can also start from a nice musar derasha even u did not masturbate for a week
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 19:56 #106392

  • ZemirosShabbos
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the basic idea of teshuvah would be to implement some measure to ensure to the degree possible that you won't commit the act again, regardless of how long it's been since it was last done.
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 20:18 #106399

  • laagvokeles
100 %
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 20:31 #106400

  • ben durdayah
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The rebbe's concise guide to Teshuva:
bardichev wrote on 30 Apr 2009 20:40:

B"H I am trying to hold on> Thank you for all the encouragement. I will try to keep on posting Be"H.I know that I am still in my process of TESHUVAH and I hope to always be in the process.

I can really identify with so many of our HEILIGE brothers (AND SISTERS) that are new to the forum and there are probably many more that are either too shy or too scared to take the first step.

HERE GOES: (if anyone disagrees please add your perspective my views are not halacha limoshe misinay)

Step 1
AZIVAS HACHET. You must BREAK FREE. If you found this forum OBVIOUSLY you are looking for help (IF YOU ARE HERE JUST TO READ YENEMS TZOORIS PLEASE GET LOST .ON THIS SITE YOU FIND ONLY HONEST PEOPLE THAT ARE BEARNG THEIR HEART AND SOUL IN AWAY THEY CAN’T ANY WHERE ELSE .THIS IS NOT ENTERTAINMENT)
It really is difficult to break free because that is your ABOUT FACE from the evil Y”H.
There are many tips on breaking free on this site .Remember you came here to get help.
Obviously you are looking for something that makes you FEEL better than your addiction.

Of course you will feel a lot of pain of course you will feel the temptation to sneak a peek or just check out to see if you still have aY”H.Yes you still have aY”H don’t tease it just ignore him. Use all your creativity to avoid your Y”H.

Step 2
KABALLA AL HA-ASID accept a new path
Notice I skipped charata and viddiy (I am sure some people will argue with me. This is not a shiur in hilchos TESHUVA this is a thought in hilchos PIKUACH NEFESH).
YOU MUST DO THINGS IN A PRO-ACTIVE WAY. Find ways how to change your bad habits remember you are fighting an ADDICTION you are fighting a way of life that you with great skill and creativity hid from the world from your closest friends and family. You are fighting the strongest force in the world the EVIL MENUVAL THE Y”H.
Tell him that you are shoving him out of the driver’s seat and now you are IN CONTROL.
  TRY TRY TRY to remain focused on how good you are doing. Good I am clean for an hour BETTER 2 hours a day 2 days a FULL WEEK WOW!!! 
DON’T LOOK BACK don’t try to figure out how I ended up in this addiction why is there a milchemes hayetzer. Not now just run for your life
Do things that will give you joy. If you are married, put all your energy back into your family. You will see how good it feels. Use your energy to be more active take a break from your computer, Clean your office, visit a Jewish bookstore, call an old friend.
USE THIS FORUM IT IS THE BEST PLACE TO BE.THERE IS REAL KEDUSHA HERE!!
BE BESIMCHA YES BESIMCHA!! SAY TO YOURSELF A ZILLION TIMES  A DAY I AM A TZADDIK!!!!
LOOK AROUND people do change. Look at the 90 day wall of honor become inspired. These are HEROES regular people that are fighting Y”H tooth and nail. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.DONT look back (I’m repeating myself) just say that was in the past NOW I’m a great happy husband brother son father chavrusa employee etc.

Believe IN YOURSELF. It takes more time and energy and talent to feed and hide your addiction.
I realize this post might be a drop too long sorry.

MY HOPE IS THAT WE SHOULD ALL GIVE EACH OTHER THE CHIZUK WE NEED TO BE TRULY HAPPY AND HONEST AN HOLY.

Humbled and happy
bardichev
For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 21:55 #106416

  • laagvokeles
hey durddya no offense, but you want me to read a ultra old post and also so long?

no nerves :

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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:03 #106418

  • Dov
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ben durdayah wrote on 19 May 2011 17:58:

Actually, stopping is the first step in teshuvah -Azivas HaCheit!

Nice. And I sincerely believe that all the program including the 3rd, 4th, and 11th steps, are essentially only 'chilukei azivas hacheit', no more, and the entire program exists inside what yiddishkeit calls azivas hacheit. All the rest of the toras hateshuvah begins after the program, and that may take years for some of us who have a major azivas hacheit problem, and obviously continues concurrently with recovery for the rest of most people's lives....or at least it is with me and almost everyone I know in recovery so far.

Thanks, as I never though of it as clearly before your comment.

If this is minimizing or cheapening the program for anyone, too bad. Spending a lifetime on one middah avodah is typical of all baalei mussar, so here we are. No thoughts of grandeur need deter us and ruin us - they always have in the past. No more grandeur and madreigas for me, thank-you. I'll be content being the little shnook in the corner with Hashem.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:23 #106420

  • ben durdayah
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Sorry dov, I actually wanted to say this:

"Azivas Hacheit B'poe'al is actually step 0 of the twelve steps (ayain White Book page 64)."

I defer to your knowledge and experience when you say that b'etzem all of the twelve steps are within azivas hacheit.

I sincerely concur with you, and hope to find myself (a shnook) in a corner with the RBSO for the rest of my life. If I "only" manage azivas hacheit -dayeinu. B"h He's got enough corners for all of us.

But I wanted to offer laag something that he might actually accept, so I referred to stopping in the context of the "Teshuva Process" instead.

Did I blur the clarity that you gained from my original post?

E
For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:25 #106421

  • me3
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I don't really agree with that. Saying my life has become unmanageable largely falls under the category of charata.

And you certainly are trying to have "kaballa al ha'asid" in there (Even if it's only a kaballa for today, that's still asid)

No?
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:36 #106423

  • laagvokeles
even if u go back to porn after a hour, it could still be you did teshuva, go-d knows if u were serious or not..... ai you fell...? יפול צדיק וקם
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:47 #106426

  • ur-a-jew
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laagvokeles wrote on 19 May 2011 22:36:
even if u go back to porn after a hour, it could still be you did teshuva, go-d knows if u were serious or not..... ai you fell...? יפול צדיק וקם


"It could still be," but not likely if you took no measures to insure that you would not do it again.
Help free Sholom Rubashkin by giving him the zechus of Shemiras Eiynayim.  www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=2809.0
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Re: we all want to be good 19 May 2011 22:47 #106427

  • ben durdayah
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I think that what rebbe reb b. (aka dov) meant was that the 12 steps are a system meant to help keep a person stopped -azivas hacheit.

What does the realization that our lives have become unmanageable have to do with charatah? Charatah is sincere regret over the past. When I say that my life has become unmanageable is that tantamount to saying that I regret the wrongs that I have done in the past? Or that in the present I realize that my life is simply unmanageable -i.e. the way that I have been trying to do things just does not work, and it is therefore pointless and downright frustrating to continue doing things this way. Or as one of the gedoilim of this forum put on his signature, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results..."

But why am I rambling? I'm sure that the authority on this subject will find enough time to get on his tricycle and pedal over for a few minutes in order to explain himself...

E
For Dov and the other two guys who care,
My real name really is
 Eli
Like the original Bendy, Ein hadavar talui ela bee




 
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