hahaha thank you thank you, you really made me laugh!
and you are right!
everybody hast lust for woman (maybe soon there is gonna be a site for man who have lust for man... azoi kikt es shoin ous abisel....) but other ppl are capable to control it, but me?no i cant control it, and sometimes go into porn for that (hashem should help me that i should never really actually touch a other woman besides my wife, even i am scared it can get wose my matzev)
And i dont get how is that posible to control my lust when i already saw what i saw... .

I daven and daven "sabeinu mituvecho" i wanna be satisfied with toiro and tfila, and i managed many many times to do that, and there is no biger satisfaction and happines than that been busey the all day with toiro and tfile! and i managed for almost 2 months in raw! it was so but so geshmak, much better than anything that the internet has to offer!

  But because i am not your zaide (yet    )  it seems that i have to relax too..... Now thats complicated you see; becuse "mimo nafshoch": am i now in a holy matzev, i dont need nothing allse (maybe a good supper and good music a bit of mezoinos and nash.....) but nothing alse..... of azoi vat that i dont even fell a nesesary to go home in the middle of the day, and i an be in shil for 15 hours!!

but then the "yeride time comes... and there is nothing nothing nothing bederech heter with what i can relax or freak out...!!!

hashem yerachem

depends what u are looking for biderech hetter

there are soo many good ways to pass time

u can go every nite see where chilu posen is singing

maybe go hear som badchunnis or chazzunis

i hate chazzunis

i would love to have time to do some  swimming or volley ball

u can join mekimi misaskim shomrim matzeelai aish

u can call your sons cheider offer your help

go shopping for your shvugger that just had a baby

call your elter mimeh see if she needs the bulbs changed or a screw tightened in a cabinet

call an old maggid shiur of your ask him to give u his tapes and convert them to mp3

make a huge kigel for your freind bring it to bais medrash layl shishi

go shopping koif ayn nisslich and nash invite a ben toraeh to give a shiur in your house

hey man this are just a few ideas

Rebbe Bardichev, our new friend LaagVokeles wrote that he is looking for ways to relax that are NOT strenuous activities. Something to replace sitting & looking at movies....

i dont live in the usa (i dont wanna say where i live hameivin yovin) so many of your options droped
i am not interested in lail shishis
and im not a big chesed guy.... ich bin foul..... arzius gashmius chomrius azlus

you know even its my first day on this forum, i have a feeling (i am not sure) that this is only good for ppl:

1)idiots

2) ppl who want to feel good, that they are doing what they can...

3) ppl that didnt yet fell many times after they decided 100000000 times not ot watch porn any more...  so they still think  "OH SURE AFTER WHAT YANKEL TOLD ME; AND WHAT I SAW MOISHE TOLD GEZL,  NO WAY...... (nebech)

4)ppl that the heart is theyr boss (softys), and  a good word or smile from somebody gives them chizuk

  And its really a big mizva because sof sof it gives chizuk for some more for some less.

                Hakitzer: some one that fell 11000000 times THIS CANT HELP, but its good cause every second u r here and not there its already a oifti
sorry for the depression air in my  words

by the way no body should get insulted by number1 (idiots) its not you who i mean....

What do you mean?

So sorry about the long megillah here, but I suggest you read some, then take a nap, wash neigel-vasser, read some more...maybe finish it in a few sittings....ha-ha-ha.

Laag vokeless! And you said that u-r-ajew is depressing you? What a username, gevalt!

Anyway, after reading your thread, I am impressed at your tfisah of some of the problem:

and
, etc.

These diamonds are things I have tried to knock into some chronic floppers' heads for a long, long time. And here you come already wrapped up in the package mit aleh pechechkelach! (is that really a word?)

I am serious. You are a very lucky man, chaver. (It is also nice to see that someone else besides me laughs his head off when the bardichever writes his geshmakeh stuff).

Now, tachlis - what to do about it?

You do not seem to get insulted easily, so here I go:

It's funny to me. First you say it's completely hopeless b'derech Hateva, and Hashem y'rachem. Then when a guy who is actually getting better answers that you are right - that we are sick in the head and do not have the power to get out of this trap - you argue that it can't be!

Whose side are you on? :D

You say, "Hakitzer: some one that fell 11000000 times THIS CANT HELP, but its good cause every second u r here and not there its already a oifti" - but you do know that there are many people, including many frummeh yidden who learn as much as you (I bet) and have done much worse than you ever did (I bet), for longer than you have (I bet), and lied even more than you have (I bet), and yet are sober and living a different life than before. (maybe I have a betting problem! ;D)

I spend one or two shabbosos almost every year with about two hundred frum yidden and yeshivah avreichimn/yungerleit who are porn and sex addicts (we call ourselves "Lust addicts") and are working to be free of this in recovery. Many are, b"H free for years. They say they are still addicts, still unable to win the fight, but still clean - for years. And they are not suffering and not in the torture that you describe so well.

And many come for that Shabbos with their wives, too. Twice every year, besides the meetings they go to a few times every week together with other sex/schmutz and lust addicts. I have been going for almost 14 years. Am I stupid? No, cuz it's free! ;D

There are over a thousand frummies who regularly go to these meetings in Yerushalayim, Beit Shemesh, Tel Aviv, Be'er Sheva, (lehavdil) BP, Monsey, Baltimore, etc...

You can't have it both ways. If you can kvetch that you "are k'var metumtam with this schmutz and can't get out!" then you can give up the fight and learn how to let Hashem help you. Are you ready to sit at the feet of other addicts (who may be frum yidden, frayeh yiddin, rabbonim, prusteh goyim, or whatever) who are sober, to learn how to be just plain clean? They can teach you how to be what comes before even being a frummeh yid: Derech Eretz.

I do not believe it is honest to say "it is my YH that is making me do it, eve though I am a nice guy and have good sechel." No way. Normal people do not do this habitual garbage, kvetch about how much they hate that they do it and how terrible it is, then do it even more....that's weird - like me!

So please stop passl'ing/judging anybody else's eitzos in this stuff - if they are clean, just listen, for a change. Your sechel is what got you all tied up in this meshugeneh knot to begin with. Your best wisdom - is your biggest problem!

This business of "depending on Hashem" for help in this disgusting and stupid problem we have, is not something you will learn from your sechel. Your sechel is already full of shtuyot. It's time to think a lot less and do a lot more.

As far as entertainment is concerned, I have found that I can get very busy talking with other sickos and perverts like me who are interested in the same recovery that I have been given. We get together at a few meetings every week, talk a few times a day on the phone, and I write my chazerai here on the forum and in emails...it's great fun, very entertaining.

So I suggest trying this recovery thing and seeing how busy and full your life gets. 'Suddenly". It's kind of funny...but true. If you need enough entertainment that you end up watching porn for it, then you may not be happy enough and busy enough with your life.

Just my opinion. Nothing personal.

You don't have time for all that? It sounds like it's no fun at all, and just hard work? You have atzlus. So do I. Nu, it might be hard in the beginning. But all that changes.

Once you see there is a better way to live, it changes. The guf sees it. In the beginning few days or weeks the guf goes crazy - it misses the schmutz and the isolation and the pleasure of being irresponsible.

But after a while, with Hashem's assistance and the help of other addicts who understand, even the guf starts to feel the relief, the calm, not needing to feed my brenn - the 'emergency' to see another little shtickle porn video tonight...I just don't need it! It is like Shabbos menucha compared to the nutty, stressful week. Sobriety is menuchah.

It really is a neis. I, who lived from porn to porn...now I actually have better things to do! I can live. I am busy doing things like kissing my children, walking with my wife (or even by myself), chasing the kinderlach around the house and playing hide-and-seek, reading them to bed, washing the dishes (or shmoozing with my wife while she washes them :)...building something for the house or for my wife's zaidy's house...whatever.

All this took a some time - some changes took a few days, some a few weeks, some a few months, and some took a few years. And I see that I am still with problems but getting better, b"H. Schmutz and selfishness do not rule my life any more, b"H.

To me, you are just a smart man who has discovered that he cannot talk to his guf. My guf doesn't speak any language except pleasure, and pain. You cannot 'talk' to a guf. My guf wants lust, it wants porn, zera levatolah, and sex. It just wants - Hav-hav.

But I do not need to feed it, and it will not die. If not for recovery, I would have to feed it, no shayloh. And it would make me meshugah and ruin my life.

But HKb"H has shown me (slowly, through recovery in the 12 step program) that there are 'two dinnim' here (are you a brisker?):

1- my guf just desiring the high of searching for the best video images, excitement and sex with myself (zera levatolah);

and

2- what is behind the schmutz mishegaas: that sweet warm loving feeling that nothing else gives me - the schmutz really understands me and gives me what I really need!

With my chevra of other mishugo'im like me, Hashem has helped me to start getting all that sweetness from my personal relationship of love with Him, from my relationships with my friends, and from the relationship my wife and I have, and from my life - without depending on schmutz like a slave any more. For you are describing our slavery, you know.

Was any of that helpful to you? Are we friends?

PS. I hear in your words that "Once we have seen this, we can't be good any more". This is silly. To see yourself as not "good" any more? I feel in your words that in your mind you might believe  that Hashem cannot be in love with you any more, now that you have this terrible p'niyoh from seeing the schmutz.

I can say what Reb Tzvi-Meyer shlit"a (and any tzaddik) would say, "chas veSholom! Don't believe it!...blah, blah..." but I won't. I'll say this instead: such a belief is just an excuse for us to be able to keep doing it without so much guilt and shame. It is a lie and just plain silly. Hashem is so much bigger than our aveiros and shtuyot that His Ahavah for us overshadows anything we could possibly do wrong. He is waiting for us to be with Him - deveikus with Him - and giving to us so much all the time no matter what. And when we start doing the stuff that will really help us get better and closer to Him one day at a time - Hayom al levovecha - He will help us. We just need to learn how not to kick away His help. That's recovery, to me. I don't call it teshuvah...just recovery. But maybe the word "recovery" is really the teitch of teshuvah....whatever. That's His business. My concern is staying clean and living right.

He takes care of all the rest.

nice! tnak you!
why are all the intresting ppl only in the screen...(tarte mashma....) you defenetly entertained me!

  its gonna sound bad but im gonna say it anyway.
i love my kids and i love my wife bla la etc. BUT  i cant play or shmues with them more then 10 15 min, after that i get crazy!
  Shabes is the only day i eat with them!
  Hakitzer untill i found this forum, i use to wait to "israuso deleilo" to wake me up, and once it came  and i got the cheishek, i gave it all, every time doing the best i can to try to think THATS IT; in a year or 2 ill be so holly il have ruach hakokoksh.

  And i lived so deeply with this that every time i spend a lot of $ cause i cut wires ruin things in the computer etc.....

Just what happens is that the gap untill j get the present from hashem to do teshuvah is getting bigger and bigger.... .
I remember when it use to be days and then weecks, and now im already by a month and a halve.....
 
You wanna telll me that haimishe jungelait meet on the 100s?
what type? working? learning? chasidish?
man this is crazy!
hashem yerachem

do you mean relax or relieve bordom

sometimes this sometimes that......

Lag- Shulem Aleicem.

This Machlah is not limited to Litvish, Modern, Bal thuvah or geirim. This is found by Skvera chasidim, satmar chasidim( rebes, rebetzin, Zalmen leib etc.) Vishnitz chasidim ( yerishulaim and monsey) Belz chasidim, Pupa chasisim, Stulena Chasidim, Bubav Chasidim, Skelena Chasidim, Kalava chasidim and many more. I think you get the point. 

This Yetzer Horah is not limited to de Cheider you went to as a kid.

Lots of us get to this site and feel like we are different then all these weird people on here. After all look at there names i am sure this one is nuts and that one is a guy and the other one is some whatever and i am so different then them. There is no way this will work for me.

Lag, If you hang out here - you may find chevra that went to cheider with you, davened in the same shul or shtible with you and even learn in the same Kollel with you. They are smart and "Normal". And before they got here they couldnt get rid of the Tayva on their own and after 1111100001 times they found the oylem here and learned some new things that they didnt know before.

Let me ask you one question that i asked myself- Has the way you have tried to stop on your own worked? Did you stop?  If the answer is no then hey- what do you loose by learning and trying what people here are doing that is changing them. Maybe?

De maama Always said- Bis zibetzig kenmen lernen naya zachen yeder tug.  Maybe this is one for today ;

Stick around and keep on posting - You will enjoy the Chevra.

Stop by Bardichever shtible once in a while to chap a mincha.


David.

laagvokeles wrote on 15 Dec 2010 21:00:


we don't get to pick our nisyonos in life. the sick child doesn't want his cancer, the barren wife wants children- they would say 'oh i would rather this' but too bad.
the Ribono Shel Olom decided what challenges they would face in life and what was best for them.
a person is not smarter than our tatte in himmel, nu?

the way you talk about other people, u say u aren't shy, but then what is this? u don't like chessed, or to play w/ ur kids or wife etc.
but u said u r social?

confused.

perhaps it is because u r distracted by the porn. i also got irritated from people b/c a) i wasn't happy w/ myself for my behaviour b) i wanted them to go away so i could go back to watching

but we r not idiots, or softies or whatever. this place is keeping me clean , first for 75+ days when i found it but not in such a healthy way, and now i've been clean for a long while B'H

this is the tool the Ribono Shel Olom has given me, and it DOES work for me. u just have to make good use of everything this website has on it.

laagvokeles wrote on 16 Dec 2010 11:19:
Sir, I do not understand what your words mean: "Interesting people only on the screen" - not tartei, not chad mashmouos. Please explain what these words are trying to say.


This is so not a chiddush to me at all, every addict I know is the same in this - and the machlah is that each one thinks he is worse that everyone else - "Yeah, he says he is crazy, but I am really crazy." That's a machlah. I came into the room for meetings and discovered I was just another addict just like them. Then I started getting better from doing the work.

Funny. The guys that stop messing around for a while but are not doing any recovery work usually fall on their tuchess after a while really badly. They start off thinking, "I am completely nuts! Craziest guy in the world! No one can understand me!" - then as soon as they get clean for a while, guess what? They are 100% sure that "Now I've got it! I am cured! I see the shtus and stand over it all like the guy in the moshol of RMCh"L in the maze-garden. I'm OK now!"

Ha-ha, what happens later is not so funny.

Then they don't come back, because they are so ashamed, or they say, "I tried that already and it doesn't work!"


I spent thousands, too. Other guys I know spent a lot more money, time, agmas nefesh, Sholom Bayis, sanity, jobs, etc.


Congratulations! That's a great matonoh! Ashreinu!
 



Last weekend, about 30 were yeshivishe kolel guys, about 30 were Chassidishe (kollel or not), about 10 were rabbonim and mechanchim, and the rest were just plain poshuteh yidden like me. About 50 wives were there, too, chassidish/yeshivish, mostly.

What do you mean by "Hashem yerachem"? Do you see the good in this, or do you see the bad? I just want to know cuz I'm curious.

Trust me. These guys and their wives are the lucky ones. The thousands of other ones out there are like you a month ago - they have nothing but their little shvitzigeh battle with their YH all day long all by themselves in a corner. Then it explods and their life is gone down the toilet.

Ashreinu.

*cries*