dear dov!

to be a ערליכער יוד you also gotta be a genious, ill explain what i mean.

the אור החיים הקדוש פרשת אחרי מות says that this "family" of aveiros we all talking about here, is not good to have to many discussions with the יצר הרע ,  its better to cahnge subject the fast as u can, the reason is because as more as u think about this type of aveiro you get more in heat....

so u r right and there is ppl that when they are clean like after 90 days etc, אפשר that its the right thing not to be here.....

in my case i am not sure what to do, meanwhile i am not getting heated up here, so i am here, and its also a entertainement in the end of the day.

but could be i am wrong and i shouldnt be here, and that is לכאורה the פשטות in the words of the אור החיים הקדוש

any way as i sayd : to be a good jew u gotta be a genious.... how to go up slowly slowly from mareiga to madreiga, what is considered "slowly from madreiga to madreiga" and what is considered giving up to the יצר הרע and been lazy.......
thats why we should daven a lot הורינו ד' דרכך אהלך באמיתך teach me the righ path amen

Eye.nonymous wrote on 31 Dec 2010 08:24:


As Tzadikim say:  וּרְאֵה אִם דּֽרֶךְ עצֶב בִּי וּנְחֵנִי בְּדֶרֶךְ עוֹלָם (Tehilim 139) The we ask hashem that he should look at our ways in avodas hashem and see if we do it Be'atzvus, with pressure, pushing too much etc.  and not with  simcha, then וּנְחֵנִי בְּדֶרֶךְ עוֹלָם let me be like everybody, without any big sheivois just a plain simple Yid.

TB that's a great idea and vort!
thanks

laagvokeles wrote on 02 Jan 2011 20:16:


LvK it's great to see that you've taken some of the advice given to you.  But the question you have to ask yourself is how is this time going to be different from all the other times that I've gone down this path.  True, you are taking a different step, installing a filter.  But is it much different from cutting the wires that you've done before?

How about making real change by speaking to a live person about your problem.  Or in addition to a filter getting webchaver so someone is actually looking over your shoulder and seeing what you are doing.

I just throw this out as a suggestion from one guy who "NEEDS HELP" to another guy who "NEEDS HELP."

Continued hatzlacha.

hey u r a jew.
i had filters also....

any way i have a problem only with go-d not with a adiction, its just a very tasty thing we all like.... and go-d dos not alow it, so ill not envolve a person, ill just envolve a seifer with a filter..., and the rules are simple: dont think  and dont watch woman, dont be bored...  If one of those things mencioned above are not been taken care of NOTHING WILL HELP no web chaver and no filter no nothing, i dont wanna give ideas here and help the development of someones יצר הרע but its a fact that אין דבר העומד בפני הרצון its also on a negative way.

the reason why i wanna have a filter the way u mencioned before is because of 2 reasons:
1 rabonim say to do it

2 as i mencioned before watchiing woman is bad, so www.manishma.com that has clips of lipa and ladys on the back is not good, but its very hard not to watch such clip because the יצר הרע says : who says there is ladys.....  etc.
so i dont wanna be able to watch it or cnn etc....

Laag you are growing

laagvokeles wrote on 06 Jan 2011 17:27:


It's amazing how we can hide behind daas torah.  The gedolim say that the inyan of daas torah is not listening when they say what you want to hear, it's listening when they say what you don't want to hear, but you listen anyway, because it's daas torah.

Precisely for the reason that you don't want to get webchaver or any other accountability program is why the rabbonim have said that you should get it. 

Here are some quotes from Rabbonim:

I have insisted that everyone affiliated with our kollel having an internet connection enrolls in Webchaver in addition to whatever filters they may be using. Its psychological effect is extremely powerful. Your wife / chavrusa / chosson teacher has access to everything you are viewing and is tipped off if you are attempting to tamper with the system. It is in effect preventing yichud with the internet -which ChaZaL would undoubtably have prohibited had anything like the internet been available in their times! 

Rav Yitzchak Berkovits, Rosh Kollel - The Jerusalem Kollel, Rav - Sanhedria Murchevet, Jerusalem


There is an international scourge attacking the Jewish People: this is the widespread addiction of men to pornography. This scourge threatens to tear apart the fabric of Jewish life.. This addiction has spared no class of Jews: from teenagers to kollel members, from office workers to rabbis, and from single to married men. 

Rav Aharon Feldman, Member of the Mo’etzes Gedolei HaTorah of America


I doubt that at any time in our history has there been as grave a threat to the morality of our people and to the stability of the Jewish family as the plague of addiction to Internet pornography. It has ruined more marriages than anything. It has ruined families. It's been terribly destructive. 

Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski, MD

Not a week goes by that I don’t have to deal with a Shalom Bayis Problem or a problem in Chinuch Habanim or Banos, or a very fine Bochur who will call me up – or at least what is left of a very fine bochur – calls me up crying, begging for help. There is nobody that can claim that either they’re not affected, or a family member, or a neighbor, or the chaver sitting next to them in shul, or the chavrusah sitting across from them in yeshiva. If you discounted it until now, you’re gonna have to take my word for it when I say that there is no single problem facing the yechidim in klal Yisrael and communities at large, there is no bigger problem than this. There’s a Chov Kadosh to do something now before there’s no semblance of Kedusha left in Klal Yisrael. And I don’t say that lightly. Keep in mind, the people who come to me are so frum and so upset about what’s going on, that they’re willing to talk to their Rav. That means that there are thousands of people who would never even speak to their Rav. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than then 90% chance that people have already been Nichshal in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than 90% chance it will happen. And if it’s not happening at home, it’s happening in the office. 

Rav Yosef Veiner, Agudas Yisrael Flatbush

The Internet is filled with immoral and decadent sites which have the capability of destroying one’s yiraas shomayim and tzenius rapidly, before one even realizes how entrapped he is in their tentacles. It exerts a powerful force over many people that - if left unregulated - has the potential to destroy the fabric of the Jewish home. There are countless horror stories about young people falling prey to online seducers and the tragic consequences of their encounters. There is no need to repeat here that which is well known and documented.....

A highly effective tool to protect users from Internet dangers is a computer monitoring system, such as WebChaver, which alerts an appointed monitor of any inappropriate sites visited by the user, thus creating a strong deterrent. 

Rabbi Doniel Neustadt, Rav of Young Israel in Cleveland Heights - Torah.org

Of course, you can ignore all of these statements since no doubt they are talking about addicts, and you are not an addict, or they are not really rabbonim, or they are not your rabbonim, although I have no doubt that if you actually took the time to ask your Rosh Kollel he would say the same thing.  That's your own decision, but don't hide behind daas torah in attempting to justify your decision.

u r a jew!
קודם כל thank you thank you thank you!!!

i usually when i see a long post i never read it.... i only read short ones.... but yours i red the all thing (maybe i jumped a few lines).

now to our issue.

its very hard to explain it in words what i am gonna say now, its hard to get what i really want, as you gonna see soon, here it goes:

first thing you are right about evrething you said!

second someone like me is not supoused to have internet at all even with filters cause i dont work, but i asked one of the rabonim in israel that are very envolved with "this" and in the begining he did not wanna hear to let me have internet, but i manage to convince him..... but its a הוראה ליחיד for a specific reason i dont wanna say here (i am paranoyed someone should rekognize me in here....)

back to our issue: i know 2 things: one: you gotta do what rabanim tell you evendo u dont like it and i am doing  that (not all of the rabanim say to put web wacher)

2: the remedy for this זנות  problem are plain and simple  dont think  dont watch dont be bored be bussey! if u do all that the problem of זנות  is not gonna be harder than not to eat on a fast day, its hard but possible, the problem is when u get all heat up by watching woman in the street etc, than its like a fast of 3 days.... ALMOST impossible.... ...(אור החיים הקדוש פרשת אחרי מות)

any way if someone חס ושלום] gets so heat up that the only thing who can save him is the web wacher cause he broke the filter... well let me tell you i think he is gonna buy a new pc only for that or go to buy a dvd with shmutz or reinstall his windows so hes web wacher goes פייפען לטמיון....
you get me?
in short words ill explain u all my derasha again: once you are so horny that only web watcher is your saviour youll go masturbate in toilet or reinstall windows.. you lost any way...
what you gotta do is prevent your self from getting loco horny... and thats by doing whats written in bible

This time i agree with you Reb laag. All these things will not help a addict without a program of recovery. I would definitely buy a new computer if i had too.  A Filter is a life saver for a non addict and a addict in the framework of a program of recovery

"not all of the rabonim say to put webwacher". That's like saying the ohr hachayim hakodesh never said the internet is ossur. I have no doubt that if he were asked and permitted a hoyraos yochid for you to get internet he would have required you to get webchaver. But more importantly did you ask the Rov who permitted you to have internet whether you need to get webchaver as well.

Let me ask you a question if you were in horny mode and you were watching porn and your wife walked in would you still be horny and need to masturbate in the toilet. My guess is you will get dehornated pretty quickly. And that is the logic behind webchaver.

So you want to give me tirutzim that you'll masturbate in the toilet if you can't get on the internet who is to say that's worse then going on the internet and masturbating anyway?  And don't worry when you reinstall windows you'll get a call as to why the reports stopped coming. Listen you have nothing to lose by getting webchaver except possibly a longer stay in gehenim both in this world and the next.

Will it solve your problems probably not. But it will be a significant start.

I gotta disagree here.
When i cant get on to the internet there is still magazines nudie bars internet cafe following women or worse. A filter or web chaver is nothing untill a decision has been made to figure out how to stop.

Chaim if you have been following this thread completely one thing is clear our friend Laager is definitely NOT an addict he's just a guy who should be busy learning but can't for the life of him stop looking at porn. So a program of recovery will NOT work for him. There is simply nothing to talk about.  All that may help him is either a hisoerurus deliaylah which for some reason Blockbuster stopped delivering to him or Torah and Daas Torah which our friend Laager listens to even if it hurts. That is why I suggested webchaver since daas torah says: "When a person sins he is always afraid lest a person see him."  I know its not the be all and end all.  But there is a reason that Laager is afraid to get webchaver.  It is precisely that reason that I think he should get it.

ok im not an addiction specialist however to me he thinks he isnt but he is deep in it he has no life except for porn.  No enjoyment from life cant enjoy life to wrapped up in porn .That sound like a addict to me.

chaimhelp wrote on 07 Jan 2011 15:59:



I don't understand how you think he can be an addict when he said very cleary that this is not his problem:

laagvokeles wrote on 06 Jan 2011 17:27:


An addiction specialist is a creation of a society that wants to rationalize their conduct away.  Laager does not under any circumstances want to fall into that trap.  No sir, he is willing to step up to the plate and take responsibility for his actions.  He likes porn plain and simple and if he really wanted to stop on his own he could do it.  He doesn't need 12 steps, four steps any steps.  He just needs to keep busy and listen to the Ohr Hachaim Hakodesh and not think about this schmutz.  When he is ready, he"ll do it plain and simple.

Amen, we are not experts - least of all, on addiction!

Laag may not be an addict. Dos meint: He may in fact be able to use or control his lust without it messing up his brain and making him useless and miserable. To me, that is just a normal person who discovers that he unfortunately really likes porn and masturbation. Nu.

He sees each mess-up as a nisayon and not a pattern, at all. OK. Maybe he is right.

Because he only reads short posts, this is the end of this one.