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TOPIC: Hello from Blind Beggar 87563 Views

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 06 Aug 2012 19:39 #143034

obormottel
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Machshovo wrote on 06 Aug 2012 18:17:

Mazel tov! That's longer than a lot of people, and look, SA had something to do with it.
Doesn't it logically follow that if anyone else wants to not have sex with self or with anyone other than one's spouse, the surefire way there is through SA?

Congrats Mottel!

But I got problems with the logic. If there is a certain disease, and only one medicine seems to work, then I would agree that the surefire way is through that medicine. But aren't there people in the GYE community who manage to stay sober for years without SA?

MT

Sure. Who?

Baby steps.
If the road is pulling you down, it's a sign that you are going uphill, so just press harder on the gas!

Have a great day - unless, of course, you made other plans.

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 06 Aug 2012 19:48 #143036

TehillimZugger OFFLINE Platinum Boarder לבד הנשמה הטהורה Posts: 2446 Karma: 34	Machshovo wrote on 06 Aug 2012 18:17: But aren't there people in the GYE community who manage to stay sober for years without SA? Like AlexEliezer for instance, see his story here (elsewhere in more detail, but I can't find it now, the point is though that it's possible).
	?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 06 Aug 2012 19:49 #143038

Machshovo Tova OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1230 Karma: 26	And besides, is it not also true that many tried SA and failed miserably?? Respectfully... MT

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 06 Aug 2012 19:55 #143041

TehillimZugger OFFLINE Platinum Boarder לבד הנשמה הטהורה Posts: 2446 Karma: 34	Also there were two guys, Rabbi Elazar Ben Durdaya and SpecialWeapons_Tzaddik90 who went to sa, and while I don't think it was discussed on the forum, EBD told me [in person] that they both left. It is approximately a year later, and they're both still doing okay. [they're not around online now either...]
	?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 06 Aug 2012 21:44 #143047

obormottel OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1440 Karma: 6	how about you, TZ?
	Baby steps. If the road is pulling you down, it's a sign that you are going uphill, so just press harder on the gas! Have a great day - unless, of course, you made other plans.

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 05:53 #143058

Blind Beggar OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Not a sexaholic, just trying to be good. Posts: 780 Karma: 12	I also left SA and I cannot honestly go back and state that I am a sexaholic even though I meant it when I said it. I could not have stopped without the fellowship and the sharing of SA.
	The Blind Beggar is a character in Rebbe Nachman's story of the Seven Beggars. If I view a woman as an object, I am powerless over lust, but I don't have to look. I can guard my eyes. I want to guard my eyes. I do guard my eyes. Why do I say these four lines?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 05:59 #143059

TehillimZugger
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One second Mottel, I knew this was coming, but first let's mention some others. Gibbor120, Zemiros Shabbos, Bardichev!!!!

I have a good friend from GYE [who shall remain unnamed, I can tell you who in a PM if you don't believe me] who is very involved in SA and just fell two days ago....

The main issue I want to bring out is that a year ago, when I joined GYE, it was a nice friendly place [check out the old threads if you don't believe me] where people came and received hope, love and encouragement. Today it is a place where people are repeatedly pressured to join SA. Back then a newbie was able to come on and post: "I'm sober for 3 days! this place is amazing!" and people would smile to themselves, and tell him "way to go man! that's great! Read some of the stories on this site and you'll see how others just like you or even worse off than you made it to 300 and counting!" nowadays the guy would get: "sober from what, what have you been doing that you are no longer doing, and WHY are you happy that you're sober, and what are you DOING to stay sober in the future?" People get turned off, scared away and leave.

I don't think I did a very good job explaining myself, but I have to go daven, can some other members help me out here?

?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 08:57 #143067

TehillimZugger OFFLINE Platinum Boarder לבד הנשמה הטהורה Posts: 2446 Karma: 34	TehillimZugger wrote on 07 Aug 2012 05:59: when I joined GYE, it was a nice friendly place case in point I was busy being mean to one of the new guys. > > > > 8) > > > >
	?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 09:38 #143068

TehillimZugger
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obormottel wrote on 06 Aug 2012 19:50:

Thanks, Alex.
You're absolutely right (not with the compliments, but in saying "I knew I had to stop").
To paraphrase the White Book of SA: I had no other option but to stop, and my own enlightened self-interest told me that.
I wish this enlightenment can be shared with others, but to my dismay, most everyone prefers to wait till they hit the preverbial bottom before seriously undertaking recovery.
Nu-nu. I wish people didn't have to get hurt first, and learn from others' mistakes. But no, we all think of ourselves that we are above the norm, that no rules apply to us, that we are anything but a statistical unit, and therefore how can we possibly apply someone else's experience to our UNIQUE situation.
And besides, watching porn and masturbating and going to strippers and prostitutes feels so good now, and the benefits of stopping are so vague and far away.
Well, I am ripping the benfits of stopping right now.
My wife told me she can learn to love the man I am becoming. I am present in the lives of my children. I practice Yiddishkeit without guilt. I learn to deal with anxiety and emotional turmoil without resorting to my drug. I don't think that negative things which happen to me every so often are G-d's punishment for my misdoings. I am acquiring a happy disposition. I am not plagued by fear, and I am not demoralized and debilitated by shame. I can look people in the eye and stand straight.
Am I cured? Absolutely not. Is my life infinitely better? Without a doubt. Can anyone learn from me and not wait till they have been masturbating their brains out for twenty years, lost a business and/or family because of that, jeopardized their health and safety? Unfortunately, I think not.
So go ahead, new friends, keep posting how live meetings make you uncomfortable, how they disagree with your schedule, how Toiro Tavlin will cure you, or how going to siyum HaShas will provide you with the final push to finally quit for good.
With a notable exception of Alexeliezer (who still admits to working the 12 steps into his own model of recovery), I can't think of anyone on this Forum who can quit and stay quit for any reasonable amount of time without meeting people like ourselves face to face.
Let's see:
Dov- sober 15 years - SA
Elyah - sober over a year - SA
Gibbor120 - over a year or more- SA
Chaimyakov - 11 months or so - SA
Blind Begger - 500 days - SA
Think Good - I think he said two years? - SA
Ani Hakoton - one year - SA
And then there are UAJ (two years), jack, Steve (who's never gonna be a cucumber again) and a bunch of other guys whom I've never met even on the forum.
Anyways, all the guys that pop up here, and whine, and cry, and call us "holy chevra", and then go back into abyss...they need to hurt enough to want to stop. And they won't take anyone's story at face value and try to identify with it. So what's the point?
I am eternaly greatful to to GYE for lighting up the way, and advertising, and showing frum Yidden that there is hope. But if there is a frum Yid who "knows he must stop but can't" (like me), I emplore you to take a short road home instead of continuing with the begginer's waltz: 1-2-3-fall, 1-2-3-fall.

Look, Reb Mottel. I never said I had anything against SA, and I know that you're arguing with me only because you love me and want to help me and others recover, I'm not talking about myself now, I'm talking about others, I myself am quite pro SA [see [url=http://www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4579.msg133126#msg133126]here[/url] and here. See also here to better understand my situation], but GYE is not SA. SA has their own website [and AA and SA both say that a person shouldn't be forced to come to them but must come of their own free will]. GYE is

Guard Your Eyes (GYE) is the leading resource in the Jewish world for those struggling with inappropriate material, ranging from teenagers who have just began to stumble – all the way to those with full blown addiction.

and is not necessarily for people who are
obormottel wrote on 06 Aug 2012 19:50:

watching porn and masturbating and going to strippers and prostitutes

I'm not arguing with the Twelve Steps, just saying that you don't have to be officially aligned with SA in order to work them. The basis of any recovery is REALLY being serious about recovery. Someone who is really serious can succeed without actually going to SA. And even if you disagree, someone who is mistaken or clueless should never be put down, and neither should the Torah be put down.

For some reason I feel Dov's anger coming, but I'm willing to deal with it when it comes.

?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 10:54 #143077

TehillimZugger OFFLINE Platinum Boarder לבד הנשמה הטהורה Posts: 2446 Karma: 34	BB doesn't like when we hijack his thread^{see here for instance}, so let's move there.
	?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 07 Aug 2012 23:26 #143123

Dov
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Gevalt, TZ, why would I ever be angry with a person honestly saying open-minded emess as you are?

Boruch Hashem, GYE is not SA, and is not about the 12 steps. It's handbook does not even suggest that 12 steps is needed in order to stay clean, to my knowledge. And whatever Obbermottel shares here (and whatever you or I share here) on the forum is not speaking for GYE! That needs to be made clear, no?

Does that sound angry? I hope not. I like you, too...

When I start to sound like I am saying "all everone needs is the 12 steps and it is the way to get clean", someone here calls me on it. Then I retreat, sit a while and relax, and come to admit that "I forgot! - and got close-minded."
And in my own case, since I feel that the majority of people who like to use porn are not addicts, at all. So how could I ever say "you need 12 steps" to a guy who would be very dishonest if he were to say, "I am powerless and cannot manage my own life"? Most people would not be helped by a program that is a lie for them anyway.

That having been said, some refreshing messages of the 12 step program is useful even to those guys. Like, finding a person to open up to completely, being totally honest for a change, and taking personal responsibility for our need to change rather than continuing to blame the YH or some other such nonsense. And living one day at a time in some aspect that really works to help us stay out of trouble. And the idea that honesty with people brings up to the ikkar: honesty with our own peronal G-d ("Elokai") - that is the food and water that recovery survives on. All great tools.

But does every addict need the 12 step groups to get those things? I find that hard to believe. And does a non-addict need SA? I find that even harder to believe.

Nu. Enough out of me. And I hope that Motteleh is still my friend.

"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 08 Aug 2012 06:51 #143135

TehillimZugger OFFLINE Platinum Boarder לבד הנשמה הטהורה Posts: 2446 Karma: 34	dov wrote on 07 Aug 2012 23:26: That having been said, some refreshing messages of the 12 step program is useful even to those guys. And I hope that Motteleh is still my friend. Agreed, and I hope Mottel is still my friend too, he closed his Kitchen, sniff sniff, :'( didn't even give me any notice, severance pay or anything, sniff sniff.
	?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 08 Aug 2012 07:12 #143137

Blind Beggar OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Not a sexaholic, just trying to be good. Posts: 780 Karma: 12	THank you, Dov for a gevaldige true post on my thread. I am not an addict but I gained 501 days' sobriety from going to SA meetings, listening, and sharing.
	The Blind Beggar is a character in Rebbe Nachman's story of the Seven Beggars. If I view a woman as an object, I am powerless over lust, but I don't have to look. I can guard my eyes. I want to guard my eyes. I do guard my eyes. Why do I say these four lines?

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 08 Aug 2012 22:42 #143191

Dov OFFLINE Administrator Posts: 1960 Karma: 383	That's tremendous! Who says that only addicts can benefit from 12 steps and from being in a chevra of recovering, honest people? That's geshmak! Alei v'hatzlach, BB.
	"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."

Re: Hello from Blind Beggar 02 Sep 2012 14:58 #144434

Blind Beggar
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I have to admit that I have taken every opportunity to gaze at every piece of bare women's flesh that I was able to see during the last month or so and I have fallen off the Wall more times than Humpty Dumpty.

So, with the inspiration of The GuardYourEyes Chizuk List - #1104 and the help of the Guard himself (a long time ago) I have made Blind Beggar TaPhSiC v.5.0.

"I swear in the name of ADNI from now until 3AM erev Rosh Hashona morning that if I catch myself searching for or reading or writing or imagining erotica, except when I am with my wife, or willingly looking at a female that I find attractive when I can easily look away or close my eyes; and I clearly remember this shevua and I do not stop the above mentioned act within what is clear to me to be 5 seconds then I will donate $30 to GYE by PayPal within 72 hours of verifying that sufficient funds exist until Ta'anis Esther 5773."

The PayPal is there so that I can't pay without my wife finding out and the last words mean that if sufficient funds do not exist by Ta'anis Esther, there is nothing to pay or do. The shevuah has to be renewed before 3AM on erev Rosh Hashona so there is no time without it. The first 4 versions of this shevuah all helped but times change and so must my shevuah.

The Blind Beggar is a character in Rebbe Nachman's story of the Seven Beggars.
If I view a woman as an object, I am powerless over lust, but I don't have to look.
I can guard my eyes.
I want to guard my eyes.
I do guard my eyes.
Why do I say these four lines?