Mattis,

You are a real tzaddik and I really wish you only the best in this and all your other endeavors.

Today has been a pretty hard day. A long week is over and I had more time than I usually would like to "keep myself occupied." I asked myself, "Why not just act out? Don't you miss it? It's been almost 11 days since the last time... you can afford one little fall today."  I've found that I'm getting much better at remembering that feeling right after the fall, and I am getting much better at telling myself not to start at all - because once you pop, you just can't stop (that's right pringles... you aren't the only addiction in America!)

It's about knowing yourself well enough to know that slipping leads to falling. It's about being honest enough to remind yourself constantly based on previous experiences and - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES - trying to convince yourself that this time will be different. It's about remembering the 'morning after' - When your yiddishkeit makes you feel like a liar and a fake... and your non-yiddishkeit makes you feel even worse. None of us ever deserve that feeling, so how can we possibly bring it upon ourselves?

We really do deserve better. Each and every one of us. We deserve to not just "act" frum but to feel frum and be frum. We deserve to really have a relationship with HaKadosh Baruch Hu and not just spend our lives talking about one. We deserve the chayim that the Torah - not America - promises us.

Back to you Mattis - YOU gave ME chizuk today. You reminded me of all of this.

THANKS. Good Shabbos to the chevra ... (this will be my second shabbos and 12th day clean.)

DB. just jumping in here to say thanks.  Boy, did I need to hear the things you said (email).  I know that I am powerless once I start talking a second listen when the yh starts with its pictures and guf rushes.  You know the saying, "To a worm in chrain, the whole world is chrain".  Or, "we don't know who discovered water but it certainly wasn't a fish".

When I take the second listen, it's extremely extremely difficult to muscle my way our of the trance the yh casts over me. 

That you are able to do this avodah with all the temptations is chizuk for us all.

Thanks again.  I'll be checkin in.  Have a good week.  one 1/2 hour at a time if need be.

Amen Brother. 1/2 hour at a time. 1 minute at a time. Avodas Hashem is a lifelong goal and a minute-by-minute endeavor. It isn't week by week, it isn't measured in terms of 90 days... its every second of every day. Every second we are alive, we are odvei HaKadosh Baruch Hu.

Thank you all for the constant chizuk. I couldn't have better people to be growing and climbing with - and we have Hashem to thank for that.

Have a good week to all.

Dovek, how's ur trucking coming along on this Sunday
We keep our fingers crossed for u, u will make it another day clean

Fingers shmingers 

jewinprogress wrote on 15 Nov 2010 02:32:


Jews don't cross their fingers, they "Magen David" them! 

DovekBaShem,  How are you doing.  Stay in touch if you possibly can.  No matter what.  Isolation is a local call to your neighborhood toilet.

How ya doin brother?

Hi everybody.

I have not been shofech zerah in about 25 (or something like that) days. However, over the past three days I started wandering back to my favorite site and doing a lot of touching... I was NOT shofech. Is this a fall? I can't even believe I managed to prevent myself from being shofech zerah... multiple times in the last three days?

What's happened to me? I went about 20 days truly truly believing that I never want to fall again. Truly hating it and thinking its disgusting. Now I really really want to! I can hardly even remember why I didn't want to in the first place... I'm almost considering going back to a life where this is just a normal, healthy human thing to do - like the rest of the world! Why do we have to be different?? Why is this an "addiction"? Why can't it just be the thing that I do in my free time?

Please tell me if i've already fallen. If not, please tell me why I shouldn't fall. I was even questioning whether to come back here. I went 25 days... I can clearly control myself! Why can't I have my guilty pleasure? I'm not like the married guys on this site. I have NO ONE and NO OUTLET for these desires at all! G-d have mercy.

Dear Dovek,

1.) Not that it's up to me, but let's say that, for this time, what you did will not count as a fall within the GYE rules.  Now what?  If you continue looking at those sites and/or putting your hands in the wrong place, you're bound to fall in a way that's not open to question.

2.) Why shouldn't you allow yourself to fall (other than in order to keep the Halacha)?  Looking back to the time I was single, the weeks, months, or years that I was clean were the happiest times of my life.  There is no joy greater than overcoming this y"h, with the help of Hashem, of course.

3.) Although you're not married now, you will be in the future, b'Ezras Hashem.  At that point, it's not easy to reverse course, as many people on this forum can tell you.

Thanks for responding Kedusha. I'm sorry for being difficult but I need to say what's on my mind.

1) Honestly, I was hoping you would say that it was a fall so I can kiss by clean streak good-bye and just let myself go completely. That would feel so so good right now.

2) My life is very busy and very stressful. I was happy clean and I am sure that I will do another 20-day clean streak after I fall.... but I am not happy right now. It is almost painful (actually very painful both psychologically and physically) holding myself back from the full fall. I can't stop thinking about it, obsessing over it and going back to the site and the touching that brings me just to the brink. Falling would help at this point... it would make me relaxed and happy again.

3)Yes, I will be married in the future and may not be able to reverse course. But I won't need this anymore. I will have the outlet in my marriage. Halacha never meant for us to be asexual at this point in our lives! That is why we are allowed to be married and to do that sort of thing! That is why they say ben shmonah esrei l-chuppa.

Please, tell me why these refutations aren't valid ones. I do want to be convinced but Halacha is torturing me right now. I know that everybody (well, almost everybody) gives in to this little habit. Is it a part of male humanity and everyone I know (whether they admit it or not) is guilty of it on some level. Why struggle like this? Why put myself through all this pain??

It is true that virtually everyone is guilty of this sin (or has been guilty of it) at one time or another.  But, is the aveira the rare exception, against what we're striving for on a regular basis, or the aveira a way of life?

Some Chasidim once complained to the Satmar Rav that the great Askan, Elimelech "Mike" Tress, was clean shaven.  The Satmar Rav responded, "You have a point.  When he goes up to Shamayim, he may be asked 'Jew, Jew, where is your beard?'  However, when you (the complainers) go up to Shamayim, you'll be asked 'Beard, beard - where is your Jew?'"

The Nimshal is that we should be striving to be people who live lives of Shemiras Einayim and Shemiras Habris, even if we slip up sometimes, rather than being people who are constantly pogeim in these areas, who may occasionally exhibit a bit of self control.  "Hakol lefi rov hamaaseh" - but we need to succeed much more than 51% of the time; our failures should be the rare exception.

Great. Agreed.

So how about I fall just a few times every 25 days or so (which would be right about now?)

Is that really so bad???

There's no heter to act out before the fact.  Once it happens, though, we need to deal with it intelligently, such as by setting up safeguards to avoid the same Michshol in the future.  What safeguards do you currently have in place?

If you're careful when it comes to guarding your eyes, the y"h to act out will be much much less.

At the very least, I suggest making a list of things you have to do before acting out, with a penalty for not doing them (this is along the lines of the Taphsic method - see www.guardyoureyes.org/?p=2451).  Examples: calling someone up, taking a shower, reciting tehilim, learning Torah.  Finally, be determined that, regardless, you will not act out with visual stimulation.  That simply feeds the addiction too much, and makes it that much harder to stop in the future (if your rationalization to act out is that you're not married, that still would not justify using visual stimulation).

Finally, please don't feel that the Halacha is torturing you.  The very struggle is precious in the eyes of Hashem, and the reward for every minute is incalculable.  Also, other suffering that would have come your way later in life will be nullified if you accept this suffering upon yourself.  Keep in mind, though, that it will get easier and easier over time as you continue to avoid visual stimulation.

I understand your tips. They have been very helpful in the past. But that was when I didn't want to act out. Now I truly truly DO want to act out.... and WITH visual stimulation!

What has happened to me? I suddenly feel like I don't want this anymore... like I don't want this struggle or this journey... like I just want to act out, be satisfied and carry on with my life without feeling bad for a guilty little pleasure.

I know I wasn't speaking this way a few weeks ago. I had really internalized how bad it is and how much I hate it... but I seem to have lost that now. That is what I'm trying to work on here. That is what I need help with. If I don't start hating it again very soon... I'm going to kiss that clean streak good bye

DB, my heart goes out to u, I'm sitting here in shul after mariv, can't go home b4 I respond to u, even though I'm dead tired so listen to me my friend and u know that I care for u, plz have mercy on the pure soul that's within you, I know the pain u r going through right now and I know the guilt u feel for not feeling guilty and I also know that theory very well, y not be like the rest of the world who act out on a regular basis especially singles, guess what u don't wana be there I know u don't,the lifestyle is very painful we have all been there the real pleasure is only when we our accomplishing something and that is be not giving in to our desires, that's when u r in control (forget not about halucha and the YH) be a baal gavha now,try to locate the triggers and see how u can handle them in a healthy way, go out for a walk, learn, read something, work out, call a friend, family, (u can even reach out to me) get hold on urself and be strong but do it now, stand up kick the YH in his a$$ like yosef hatzadik did and tell him to get killed , u won't let him ruin ur beautiful clean streak, as soon as u do this and snap out of this wana act out mode, u will see how instantly u will gain back that will of wanting to stay clean, I will have u in my prayers, plz realize that this is life and death, nothing less
Have a good night and I'm looking forward of hearing the good