I appreciate everything that was written by both the Captain and Bright.
These lessons are so important, and they’re crucial for a healthy relationship with the Rebono Shel Olam. Very powerful, thank you! 

Just want to add in a comment that doesn’t really have much to do with the actual Hashkafic  issues. 
I personally also grew up in a home with a strong Litvish traditions, and went to a respected “old school” Yeshiva. I heard the same Shmoozin that’s you’re describing (including the negativity about “American pizza-fressers” )
Yet BH, somehow I never interpreted the messages I heard there in the way that you did. Through the kindness of Hashem, I was able to learn from my Rabbeim the message that there’s both Ahava and Yirah and even a healthy balance between them. I learned in yeshiva that Hashem loves us, wants us to be happy, and isn’t out to get us. Avinu Malkeinu on Rosh Hashana was in the context of “אם כבנים רחמנו כרחם אב על בנים “, and I always felt the promise of Hashems love more than I felt the fear of His discipline. And this is despite the fact that neither I or my Rabbeim or Yeshiva were Chassidish. In fact, I know a lot of “Litvishe Talmidei Chachomim” who daven with warmth and heartz, do Chessed, and actually aren’t cold fish, and belive there’s more to Yiddishkeit than learning and avoiding Gehenom. 

And I have also spoken with and know great people who were raised Chassidish who have unfortunately lived in abject terror of various Inyanim detailed in the Zohar Hakadosh to the extent that they weren’t able to live normally, who blamed the Chassidishe system for their problems. And I also know a lot of happy, well adjusted Chassidim who are filled with healthy Simchas Hachaim. 

My point is that traumatic negative and false impressions about Hashem and Yiddishkeit aren’t a product of the “Litvish system”, and the solution isn’t “chassidus”- it’s far more nuanced than that. Most people who develop a negative and harmful belief system do so out of a combination of many factors… 

I dont think anyone here was trying to insinuate that it is, but there’s a certain attitude out there that likes to blame the Yeshivos, so I just wanted to chime in with my two cents to protest it.
End rant. 

I feel better.

There are people, who regardless of religious affiliation, constantly criticize a certain child without showing him love, warmth and support. I am not pointing at specific people but just pointing out that there are people who act this way towards a specific child and this can sometimes be the cause for this type of misconception about Yiddishkeit. At other times, this misconception can come internally from the way we feel about ourselves and not from what others are telling us. There may be other reasons for this misconception like trauma and abuse. For those of us in chinuch or raising children it is important that we show love, warmth and support to all of our students and children. This can help the students and children properly understand Hashem. I don't work in chinuch, and discipline and love need the proper balance so take this with a grain of salt.

chaimoigen wrote on 30 May 2025 18:35:

Totally true. And it’s amazing how far the yeshiva world has come with regards to sensitivity to mental health and caring about the individual. Many of the issues people have can definitely be attributed to self perception. As we spoke about:) That being said it’s also important for rebbeim to understand that what r ploni said last generation may be harmful to some of the students in this dor.

Just wanna share a altehmirrers blik, as we are serious litvishe chevra who take learning very seriously, from my personal view point there is no problem bietzem with the hashkfa that we got......., and i agree fully with @cm, the only heora i would have is that the system works very well for healthy bochurim.

The problem is when there is a "sick" boy, and the deeper problem is identifying the "sick" boy, when a bochur is not healthy and for whatever reason didn't internilize the aleph beis of yiddishkeit (in his home, and in cheder), and doesn't feel that connection to hashem, then he is missing the solid foundation needed to be able to build further in the correct healthy way, think about it if a bochur is gezunt in his yiddishkeit and in his nefesh then when he hears about torah torah torah it will penetrate in a way that is real, and when he hears about yirah it will also be honestly real, bec. he already has the basics that hashem is our loving father and cares about us od ein shiur, it will be mitoich ahava......, but when the bochur is totally not gezunt than all he's hearing is that the only thing is yirah..., torah...., without it feeling real at all without being able to connect with it for real, and in my humble opinion there are too many such bochurim......, but yes as @cm brought out by the chassidishe velt there are issues as well...., bottom line is that we have to work on the basics, no jumping.

Kol tuv, and hatzlocha raba from the varmeh geshmokeh mir.

I’m positive that it’s not just the Bochum that are “sick”. There are many Bochurim that struggle with some form of anxiety, self esteem or apathy with regards to yideshkeit in some form. I am sure you didn’t mean it to sound this way, but I want to be clear. It’s not the bochur who is sick in the head and has to go find help. Every person has to go help themselves, this is true, but the oness is on the teacher to teach in a way the student will accept or at least in a way that will “do no harm”. 
I want to bring out my point with two stories one from this generation and one from the last. In Shanghai when the mir was there there was a student who unfortunately passed away. R chatzkel gave a fiery shmuezz berating the Olam for not caring about their dead friend, but caring more about the fact that that they couldn’t wear shoes. This generation anyone who gave a talk like that should be arrested. When you have traumatized students who just lost their friend to scream at them is tantamount to psychological murder. Yet that was a different generation and for them that helped them grow, and it was something that a great man and a sensitive man such as r chatzkel very was OK with doing. Last generation was extremely tough and resilient. What they achieved with their unwavering strength is the reason we have the flourishing of klal yisroel we merit in this generation.
The second story happened to me personally. I was personally by a talk where a respected mechanech got up and started screaming about how if you are a Baal habus you have no hope. Never mind that among those who were listening were bachurim who would in all likelihood end up working. This person took a message from the previous generation extolling the virtues of learning full-time to an America that did not respect Torah and abused it to give over a talk that probably caused some in the crowd who went to work to not be able to respect themselves. These are both extreme examples and they’re not what’s happening usually. I just wanted to bring out what I am talking about and to show that this is not just a fringe thing that affects the most emotionally sick in our society. Anyone without a rock hard skin can be really hurt. This is not the point that I came to bring out with my original post at all. But once it came up, I felt obligated to bring out this point if it could be helpful to the amazing teachers of the next generation. Thanks for listening.

My 2 cents:
Chinuch is a responsibility shared by parents and mosdos.
When both are somewhat healthy - decent chances of thriving.
When one (especially the home) is very unhealthy, there are very slim chances the other can pick up the slack.

@bright im so happy you found what you needed to be able to connect to Hashem. It is literally the most important thing in the life of a Yid. It is an all encompassing journey that even the best therapy or the best Rebbi alone cannot entirely address.

I was zoche to grow up in a home with such twisted messages about Hashem, Torah, the world and life, that I knew I had to find something else. Years later, it seems that for me, emotional growth and connection with Hashem are intertwined. Even if I have the correct messages in my head, the darkness still simmers within, awaiting the integration of what I have learned.
As we approach Shavuos, we have the opportunity to ask Hashem for the clarity we need to face and grow through the challenges He sends us this year. May Hashem help me and all of us trust His process and become close to him through it.

So beautiful. And so true. Every persons journey of truth brings its own unique light into the world. Can you share some of the your insights with us?